Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #47

[Jmoose]

LPR are just software. There are off the shelf programs designed to scan images and try to read what looks like a license plate. The software got so effective, cameras are now aimed to get a good image of plates.

The technology is like surveillance cameras in their infancy. Someone has to use the data. And the data has to still be around when it’s wanted. By the time the plates were fished out of the drain, who knows which agency kept the constant flip of plate numbers- LE isn’t going to want to give it up until they have to. I think a lot of data, like the data from a drive around patrol car with readers, is just tossed. Cameras reading vehicles entering and exiting parkways may be around longer. LE likes to find a pattern of travel for some cases.

I don’t believe any plate reader gives an alert when something is wrong. Like, “This tag should be on a brown Buick suburban but it’s on a white Honda Sedan!
” I believe the software just reads plates and sometimes describes the vehicle it’s on. (By the car’s appearance to the camera, not by the DMV records.) And keeps a list to search by those authorized to search it until the list is discarded. I imagine use of that info will become a point of contention some day. I can set up a camera to read all the plates that go by my house on the public street and keep it, but eventually, that is just going to get too intrusive. Same goes for, say, the federal government keeping records on federal roads.

Actually, they do this, if the parameters are set in that way on the reader. They pull over people all the time in cars bearing the wrong plates. Fd (or whoever) just got lucky when or if they used those plates, because nobody pulled over the car that had them on. I don’t know if they used them, or why nobody got pulled over with them, but I guess my point is that I doubt they were used on a long trip, where multiple LPRs would have been encountered. Fd (or whoever) might have used them going from Farmington to NC, if he didn’t know LPRs exist-I am just saying that I doubt it. So when might they have used, and where, and on what mission?

 

[Catz]

We do not know that the plates were ultimately used. However, he did plan to use them, or he wouldn’t have doctored them. And he did hide them in the storm drain, and the only reason I could think he would have done that, is if he did use them. Otherwise, he would have put them back in his garage or wherever he had them.

I think the plates were on the red truck. EE thought it was parked all day. FD didn’t want any record of EE’s truck being used, because that could tie FD to the murder. I agree, if FD didn’t use the plates, then why dispose of them that same night? MOO.

 

[afitzy]

I thought the same as you but when reading the search warrants the cayenne and 2007 suburban were both not seized nor were they on the motions filed by Pattis for FD to get his stuff back.

@kimch33kim, can't find copy of Pattis motion filed in Court. So, just read through all the media articles hoping that at least one of them got the story right (big assumption, I know....).

The articles are clear that Pattis is asking for Suburban, Jeep and Raptor back but nobody seems able to confirm that all 3 vehicles were seized by LE. But, given that AWs make clear mention of Fd Suburban being at 4Jx, 80MS and also seen in NC, I would find it very hard to believe that the Suburban wasn't seized and tested for forensic materials.

Not a perfect answer to a pretty basic question and its frustrating to not have the documents online and easily accessible. If anyone find the Pattis motion please post it back here. I thought that Marissa Alter had the document but it doesn't seem to be one she has posted that I could find. Very frustrating situation with the documents IMO.

Here is summary from SA in a different article about the issue which is consistent with how the other outlets reported the issue (WFSB, FOX61, NYP etc.):

STAMFORD — Attorneys for Jennifer Dulos’ estranged husband have renewed their calls for police to return his belongings they seized when he was arrested.

Defense attorneys for Fotis Dulos filed a second motion on Monday, requesting his motor vehicles to be returned.

“Mr. Dulos has endured the expense of renting motor vehicles of business and professional use while the state remains in possession of his motor vehicles,” according to the motion filed at the Stamford courthouse by defense attorney Norm Pattis.


The motion does not specify the vehicles the police have seized. But a motion defense attorneys filed in June that still awaits a judge’s decision lists a Ford Raptor pickup truck, Chevy Suburban, Jeep Cherokee, two phones, several computers, a server, hard drive and two external drives as the belongings Fotis Dulos wants returned.

pleading not guilty to tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution charges in connection with the May 24 disappearance.

In the motion filed Monday, Pattis said his client “is prepared to stipulate to secondary evidence involving the motor vehicles should the vehicles be returned to him.”

That means in the event of a trial, prosecutors could introduce the vehicles as evidence even though they would have been returned.


“Essentially, you stipulate to the ability to use photographs of the seized items of evidence instead of the actual items themselves,” said Brittany Paz, a defense lawyer not involved in the Dulos case. “For vehicles, the state almost never drags an entire vehicle into court anyway so they usually don’t object unless the state is still conducting forensic testing, such as fingerprinting or accident reconstruction on the vehicle.”

 

[enelram]

I just thought of another reason for the phone ping along birch St., Bristol.
Within a short distance of Birch and ESPN where the phone tower was in a building,
there are several public waste dumping facilities
along Middle St. Lake Ave. and Ronzo Rd.

If using the Bristol Landfill at 685 Lake Ave.
a permit is needed, possibly after hours
the license plate may be scanned by camera.
Wonder if the Tacoma had a permit on the window but FD did not want the plate scanned.

There's also a facility that burns all solid waste
deposited there and the ash is trucked to another
landfill site near Agawam, Ma.

But this small area, right next to ESPN's 123
acre campus, has at least 3 or 4 dumping facilities
where a body could easily be hidden in a barrel
as hazardous material and left. As I recall this area
is a well known trash collection area where residents
can drop off noxious items.

Lots of small industrial businesses in this area
that also used these dumping facilities.

 

[afitzy]

I thought the same as you but when reading the search warrants the cayenne and 2007 suburban were both not seized nor were they on the motions filed by Pattis for FD to get his stuff back.

@kimch33kim, can't find copy of Pattis motion filed in Court. So, just read through all the media articles hoping that at least one of them got the story right (big assumption, I know....).

The articles are clear that Pattis is asking for Suburban, Jeep and Raptor back but nobody seems able to confirm that all 3 vehicles were seized by LE. But, given that AWs make clear mention of Fd Suburban being at 4Jx and also seen in NC, I would find it very hard to believe that the Suburban wasn't seized and tested for forensic materials. Not a perfect answer to a pretty basic question and its frustrating to not have the documents online and easily accessible. If anyone find the Pattis motion please post it back here. I thought that Marissa Alter had the document but it doesn't seem to be one she has posted that I could find. Very frustrating situation with the documents IMO.

Here is summary from SA in a different article about the issue which is consistent with how the other outlets reported the issue (WFSB, FOX61, NYP etc.):

STAMFORD — Attorneys for Jennifer Dulos’ estranged husband have renewed their calls for police to return his belongings they seized when he was arrested.

Defense attorneys for Fotis Dulos filed a second motion on Monday, requesting his motor vehicles to be returned.

“Mr. Dulos has endured the expense of renting motor vehicles of business and professional use while the state remains in possession of his motor vehicles,” according to the motion filed at the Stamford courthouse by defense attorney Norm Pattis.


The motion does not specify the vehicles the police have seized. But a motion defense attorneys filed in June that still awaits a judge’s decision lists a Ford Raptor pickup truck, Chevy Suburban, Jeep Cherokee, two phones, several computers, a server, hard drive and two external drives as the belongings Fotis Dulos wants returned.

pleading not guilty to tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution charges in connection with the May 24 disappearance.

In the motion filed Monday, Pattis said his client “is prepared to stipulate to secondary evidence involving the motor vehicles should the vehicles be returned to him.”

That means in the event of a trial, prosecutors could introduce the vehicles as evidence even though they would have been returned.


“Essentially, you stipulate to the ability to use photographs of the seized items of evidence instead of the actual items themselves,” said Brittany Paz, a defense lawyer not involved in the Dulos case. “For vehicles, the state almost never drags an entire vehicle into court anyway so they usually don’t object unless the state is still conducting forensic testing, such as fingerprinting or accident reconstruction on the vehicle.”

Thanks for posting the link again...Refreshed my memory today as I re-read the blogs...I found this entry fascinating as it relates to work ethic...JFd is reflecting on the Greek "stress-free" lifestyle vs the ethics with which she was raised as she notes the death Abigail Van Buren. Had a chuckle because I was the kid who was always had a lot of internal pressure to excel...it was me, not my parents who put very little, if any, pressure on me, and I'm a good, old Protestant. Anyway the section in color may well have been in reference to Fd's new lifestyle of vacationing, not trying, etc.:

January 18, 2013
...
"It’s just not Jewish to be laid back, to not try hard, to not work basically. You always try to be better, do better, rise to the top. It’s in our blood. It’s hard sometimes in Greece, though a nice break and getaway I suppose (though I am adding up how my children are benefiting from it: language, travel, swimming improvement). But it’s odd that Greeks do actually take a nap (!), then shower and go out to eat, at 10 or 11, then go to a bar, then to a club, and home around 4ish, and these are people in their early forties! Who supposedly have kids. Jobs. But I suppose no stress.

I think that that Stress gets a bad rap. But it’s really not the worst. To me, to see someone not trying, taking too much vacation, not working just seems insane. I admire those who wake up every day prepared to climb a mountain, who have daily, weekly, (heck) hourly goals. Who want to get to the top of their own personal heap. This I get, this I admire. This actually works for me.

“If you want children to keep their feet on the ground, put some responsibility on their shoulders.” — Abigail Van Buren (aka Dear Abby)"

The other entry I wanted to post to counter the fact that Fd proclaimed in a Greek interview that his marriage was over in 2010...that Fd and JFd hadn't been intimate in a very long time....In January 23, 2013,JFd thought their relationship was okay...Someone was confused, IMO...MOO

"Some friends of ours having relationship trouble, and it being sad, (though feeling secretly smug that at the moment we are ok)."

Yes, reading these blog posts again had me questioning not only the Fd "marriage was over in 2010" but the more recent comments from "Sister" Rena Dulos about the marriage.

Quote from your OP:

The other entry I wanted to post to counter the fact that Fd proclaimed in a Greek interview that his marriage was over in 2010...that Fd and JFd hadn't been intimate in a very long time....In January 23, 2013,JFd thought their relationship was okay...Someone was confused, IMO...MOO

All I could think about was that Fd continued to play both ends against the middle and had ongoing affairs and for whatever reason JFd continued to try and make things work and hold it together for the children. Perhaps she did this until it just became impossible to maintain the facade and this could have been when Fd was parading MT around Farmington, disappearing to Miami for weeks/days at a time to stay with MT and when MT actually was in Farmington and working daily at FORE at 4Jx. JFd could have tried and tried over and over but then when faced with a person showing up every day at 4Jx (very different scenario than the unknown hookups of Fd in his travels or around town in CT) the situation simply became untenable and she had to take the children and leave to protect herself and the children from a very unhealthy and anger/hate filled situation with Fd/MT.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Maybe this can shed some light...

Farber’s attorney Anne Dranginis asked Michael Meehan, the children’s court-appointed guardian ad litem, to testify on Tuesday. Meehan, a Bridgeport attorney, testified that he spoke to Fotis Dulos the morning after Jennifer Dulos’ disappearance. In an “excited” state, Fotis Dulos asked whether Meehan had “heard the news,” Meehan said in court.

When asked if he had an alibi for the morning of Jennifer Dulos’ disappearance, Fotis Dulos stated he had been at his Farmington home and at meetings, Meehan testified. Fotis Dulos did not provide more information during the conversation. Meehan recalled telling Fotis Dulos, “I hope you have every moment of your day accountable.”

Shortly after the two spoke, Meehan learned of the investigation.

Fotis Dulos refuses to testify as Jennifer Dulos’ mother fights for custody

Thank you! Yes! That helps me a lot. My word, I cannot get past the term “news” in 5his situation.

 

[MDATCA]

@kimch33kim, can't find copy of Pattis motion filed in Court. So, just read through all the media articles hoping that at least one of them got the story right (big assumption, I know....).

The articles are clear that Pattis is asking for Suburban, Jeep and Raptor back but nobody seems able to confirm that all 3 vehicles were seized by LE. But, given that AWs make clear mention of Fd Suburban being at 4Jx, 80MS and also seen in NC, I would find it very hard to believe that the Suburban wasn't seized and tested for forensic materials.

Not a perfect answer to a pretty basic question and its frustrating to not have the documents online and easily accessible. If anyone find the Pattis motion please post it back here. I thought that Marissa Alter had the document but it doesn't seem to be one she has posted that I could find. Very frustrating situation with the documents IMO.

Here is summary from SA in a different article about the issue which is consistent with how the other outlets reported the issue (WFSB, FOX61, NYP etc.):

STAMFORD — Attorneys for Jennifer Dulos’ estranged husband have renewed their calls for police to return his belongings they seized when he was arrested.

Defense attorneys for Fotis Dulos filed a second motion on Monday, requesting his motor vehicles to be returned.

“Mr. Dulos has endured the expense of renting motor vehicles of business and professional use while the state remains in possession of his motor vehicles,” according to the motion filed at the Stamford courthouse by defense attorney Norm Pattis.


The motion does not specify the vehicles the police have seized. But a motion defense attorneys filed in June that still awaits a judge’s decision lists a Ford Raptor pickup truck, Chevy Suburban, Jeep Cherokee, two phones, several computers, a server, hard drive and two external drives as the belongings Fotis Dulos wants returned.

pleading not guilty to tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution charges in connection with the May 24 disappearance.

In the motion filed Monday, Pattis said his client “is prepared to stipulate to secondary evidence involving the motor vehicles should the vehicles be returned to him.”

That means in the event of a trial, prosecutors could introduce the vehicles as evidence even though they would have been returned.


“Essentially, you stipulate to the ability to use photographs of the seized items of evidence instead of the actual items themselves,” said Brittany Paz, a defense lawyer not involved in the Dulos case. “For vehicles, the state almost never drags an entire vehicle into court anyway so they usually don’t object unless the state is still conducting forensic testing, such as fingerprinting or accident reconstruction on the vehicle.”

It really gets under my skin that NP and Fo have the nerve to whine about the expense of renting vehicles when EE most likely has not gotten his Tacoma back and when he does I am sure it will not be in good shape. That man now has no job and no vehicle. But poor little con man Fo has to rent vehicles. I bet EE did not have the money to rent or buy a new truck. SELFISH SELF CENTERED turdheads.

 

[Diddian]

Actually, they do this, if the parameters are set in that way on the reader. They pull over people all the time in cars bearing the wrong plates. Fd (or whoever) just got lucky when or if they used those plates, because nobody pulled over the car that had them on. I don’t know if they used them, or why nobody got pulled over with them, but I guess my point is that I doubt they were used on a long trip, where multiple LPRs would have been encountered. Fd (or whoever) might have used them going from Farmington to NC, if he didn’t know LPRs exist-I am just saying that I doubt it. So when might they have used, and where, and on what mission?

Beyond the questions about if and when and on what vehicle those doctored plates were used - and as someone else here mentioned, LE may have inspected the vehicles to see if any of the LP screws looked as though they'd been recently unscrewed and reinstalled -, there is the issue about how FD disposed of them - in a FedEx box, tucked into a storm drain. Why that special method, different than the method of disposing of the bags containing clothing, clean up supplies, pillow, and knife?

Perhaps it was because the plates were easily traced to FD and he thought the dumped bags spread out among many trash receptacles wouldn't be; however, I wonder if it may have paid off for LE to "watch" that storm drain for a bit (or collect the package for evidence, but replace it with another FedEx box and then watch), to see if the plates were tucked there for someone else to retrieve. It could be that those plates weren't used in relation to this phase of the conspiracy, but were planned for use by someone else when going after the next agreed-upon victim.

 

[Jmoose]

Beyond the questions about if and when and on what vehicle those doctored plates were used - and as someone else here mentioned, LE may have inspected the vehicles to see if any of the LP screws looked as though they'd been recently unscrewed and reinstalled -, there is the issue about how FD disposed of them - in a FedEx box, tucked into a storm drain. Why that special method, different than the method of disposing of the bags containing clothing, clean up supplies, pillows, and knife?

Perhaps it was because the plates were easily traced to FD and he thought the dumped bags spread out among many trash receptacles wouldn't be; however, I wonder if it may have paid off for LE to "watch" that storm drain for a bit (or collect the package for evidence, but replace it with another FedEx box and then watch), to see if the plates were tucked there for someone else to retrieve. It could be that those plates weren't used in relation to this phase of the conspiracy, but were planned for use by someone else when going after the next agreed-upon victim.

Very good thinking; I wondered about this myself. Did the arrest/search warrants say something about a phone call from Fd to KM right about the time that the fedex box was dropped into the storm drain?

 

[kimch33kim]

@afitzy thank u for digging that up. I know they seized the 2015 suburban but they didn’t seize the 2007 one. That’s the one he took expired plates and doctored them. That’s the one I’m saying wasn’t seized not the 2015 one

 

[Tink56]

Would MamaA stay at a motel, with such a large house? Could she not stay at the house, and therefore be there to answer a phone the next AM? ("Just please pick up the phone if it rings - you don't need to talk!")

Or perhaps it was KM at the house the next AM.

It's quite possible that MT was in NC, either behind the house or somewhere else nearby in case there were issues with the truck or the murder.

Not one of her alibis have been confirmed by LE. Since she's quite prone to completely making things up that should be easy to prove if true (so - you'd think she'd never say them!), that's how I view all of her alibis. Complete lies.

Your ideas are certainly as valid as anything I can throw out, @Alathea! So wish we had more car traffic information for 4JX and MS. It would be good to know who was at the party on the 23rd, too.

My thought on putting Mama A in a motel would be to get her out of the house, maybe under the excuse the party was going to be continuing too late...others might need to stay, but that's probably a weak theory for SW phone information in that area. Maybe they housed an inebriated KM in a motel?

Just throwing things out there....I think it's more likely KM was in NC. I'm not sure that Fd would trust MT to be his helper there, but who knows?! MT in NC could be a possibility. I think if Fd had someone else in NC, that individual would have been responsible for helping to dispose of JFd's body. I think KM would be more likely to be that candidate. His phone was at 4JX from 7:29-8:22. Could he have been in NC by 10:00? I'm not familiar enough with the traffic to make that inference.

 

[Tink56]

Very good thinking; I wondered about this myself. Did the arrest/search warrants say something about a phone call from Fd to KM right about the time that the fedex box was dropped into the storm drain?

Just read the warrants again today...Incoming call from Fd to KM on the 24th at 7:47 P.M.

KM, of course, doesn't remember the call.

 

[Jmoose]

Just read the warrants again today...Incoming call from Fd to KM on the 24th at 7:47 P.M.

KM, of course, doesn't remember the call.

I thought I had that right. So maybe Fd was calling KM to come and retrieve the fedex box. And then what would they have done with it? Use it again, as Diddian said?

 

[Ruminations]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but this is the type of LPR I'm talking about, and what I would think FD would've needed to worry about: Wallingford police roll out license plate reader

These DO alert the officer to expired registrations, which results in the officer pulling said car over. IME and research, these are not in wide use in CT (one source: husband accidentally drove around for months with an expired registration).

My understanding is that the fake plate would have to happen to have the number of an expired tag, stolen tag, etc. And your husband is not unique. The police aren’t going to make themselves crazy setting those things to bing for every registration that expired last month. LPR that are owned by an entity that can access DMV can compare to their records, but only by the DMV info getting pulled and told to the software. I don’t think it is linked to DMV in real time.

AFAIK, readers do not say, “nope, that’s a fake.” Not yet, anyway.

 

[Tink56]

I thought I had that right. So maybe Fd was calling KM to come and retrieve the fedex box. And then what would they have done with it? Use it again, as Diddian said?

That's a scary thought....with this crew, anything seems possible.

 

[spaz1959]

@MissGlass, I think you put your finger on the issue that has been swirling around this case for awhile and which has been debated somewhat endlessly. Namely how many people were in NC on 5/24/19?

Even many threads ago (long before the bike was confirmed by LE) many here believed that Fd or a single perp could have pulled off the murder either with a bike or via jogging. BUT, it certainly seemed that it would have been easier to have an assistant in NC to help move a body, pick up bags and act as scout etc. We also have the 40 min time gap on Lapham Rd that is unaccounted for in the AWs. We also see all the Fd vehicles (Jeep, Tacoma, Suburban) back in Farmington in the afternoon. I do wonder if its possible that the assistant drove down to NC early and was responsible for removing the body from the scene and this would have left the person driving the Tacoma with the clean up items and the bike in back?

I've read the AWs now a few times and I get a similar feeling when the discussion happens in NC and that feeling is the presence of another individual/s. Perhaps its just the way Det. Kimball wrote the document that gives this feeling and perhaps it wasn't intentional but maybe it was intentional. IDK, but I agree with you that its possible to have this feeling after reading the AWs.

We heard Atty Colangelo say on Chaz and AJ that they couldn't see the face of person on the bike in NC but they did see the bike in the back of the Red Tacoma. We have never heard confirmation of how many people were in the Tacoma or if there was another vehicle in NC on 5/24/19 either. There was the most recent reference to the Fd Suburban being on Thurton in NC but we don't have a date for that sighting unfortunately.

The MT self provided alibis to LE seem quite 'convenient' and I do wonder if its possible that both MT and Fd woke up early and left at 5:30ish am from 80MS but perhaps were driving 2 vehicles?

We don't have all the information about vehicles going into/out of 69/71 Welles either and we don't know if a second vehicle could have been waiting in someplace like Irwin Park (where we know LE searched early on in the case).

MOO

Seems like a lot of vehicles in motion. Where was KM vehicle? What was he driving that day.You would think that at least KM would tell FD and MT about all the camera's, and neighborhood survalance around town? Everyone knows school buses now have camera's on them! Cell towers can locate where calls come from! Absolutely stupid, yet we can't figure out what they did with Jennifers body! Was she in the truck rolling around? Who has that big of balls? We have to go back to the beginning day, and time lines, and SW and AW and pings. It's in there, are we over thinking these idiots?

 

[Diddian]

Just read the warrants again today...Incoming call from Fd to KM on the 24th at 7:47 P.M.

KM, of course, doesn't remember the call.

Tripped on his way to a storm drain and suffered a broken phone and a concussion which later compelled him to beat feet out of town at the first sign of impending arrest.

 

[spaz1959]

Would MamaA stay at a motel, with such a large house? Could she not stay at the house, and therefore be there to answer a phone the next AM? ("Just please pick up the phone if it rings - you don't need to talk!")

Or perhaps it was KM at the house the next AM.

It's quite possible that MT was in NC, either behind the house or somewhere else nearby in case there were issues with the truck or the murder.

Not one of her alibis have been confirmed by LE. Since she's quite prone to completely making things up that should be easy to prove if true (so - you'd think she'd never say them!), that's how I view all of her alibis. Complete lies.

You have just answered the question of what was wrong with MT as a child, that she was sent away. Something happened as a kid, she did something. Perhaps sciopathic tendencies came to light then.

 

[spaz1959]

Tripped on his way to a storm drain and suffered a broken phone and a concussion which later compelled him to beat feet out of town at the first sign of impending arrest.

Was this a treated concussion, or self diagnosised?

 

[spaz1959]

Actually, they do this, if the parameters are set in that way on the reader. They pull over people all the time in cars bearing the wrong plates. Fd (or whoever) just got lucky when or if they used those plates, because nobody pulled over the car that had them on. I don’t know if they used them, or why nobody got pulled over with them, but I guess my point is that I doubt they were used on a long trip, where multiple LPRs would have been encountered. Fd (or whoever) might have used them going from Farmington to NC, if he didn’t know LPRs exist-I am just saying that I doubt it. So when might they have used, and where, and on what mission?

Maybe they were caught on camera, and didn't get included in AW. Maybe holding that back?