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JMHO YMMV LRR LRR LRR
O/T: what does LRR stand for?
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JMHO YMMV LRR LRR LRR
That was a chuckle moment. Attorney S couldn't find the words or didn't want to directly state what he was hinting at, so Judge Blawie said, You mean a Frank's hearing?"
I swear the pandemic has impeded my ability to verbally express myself, and I certainly have had stellar typing and editing errors, but IMO Attorney S. has big ideas about somethings, but doesn't know the legal terminology. Is that a bit odd?
When Judge Blawie asked him about a jurisdictional hearing or a change of venue, Schoenhorn's response went all over the place. Then he said something about needing to finish the memorandum about the nonfinancial bail requirements for this hearing and the judge's clerk gave him a deadline, so he couldn't finish the memorandum about the venue/jurisdictional problems. I don't think he ever stated clearly until Judge Blawie asked him if he wanted to cover that motion at the next hearing.
I was surprised that when Schoenhorn was complaining that MT couldn't meet in daughter in NY recently (?) and Attorney Colangelo asked the direct question "When was this?" Schoenhorn ignored and prattled on about probation, etc. Neither the judge or Attorney C. required him to answer that question. I really wanted to know what the answer was.
Considering the importance of this hearing, Schoenhorn's preparation and presentation did not seem very professional to me. JUST MOO...IMOO
I had another look at the video. You’re right. It was Judge Blawie who said “Franks hearing” (and JS repeated it). (Blawie used to be with the State’s Attorney’s office) But what worries me is that JS said FD wasn’t charged with conspiracy to commit murder (along with the murder charge), and that the conspiracy was only between KM and MT. If that’s right—and I don’t remember that FD was charged with conspiracy about anything—I’m worried that the state may have a problem with the conspiracy to commit murder charge against MT (and possibly against KM.) IMO Dulos should have been charged with conspiracy to commit murder, as well as murder.
I looked at MT’s charges. She was charged with hindering prosecution—but not with conspiracy to hinder prosecution (with FD)—which would have strengthened the case against her. She was charged with conspiracy to commit murder, but Dulos was charged with the murder itself and wasn’t charged with the conspiracy. The two latest charges against MT are tampering with physical evidence and conspiracy to tamper with physical evidence. If the first charge fails with the jury, the second one may not. MOO
Would this couple by any chance be the Mitchells?
Hmmmmm.....I think you have uncovered the underlying issue in the hearing that was bothering me.
At the end of the hearing, Attorney Colangelo was cautioning the judge about changing the bail restrictions beyond those initially placed on MT in June, etc. Colangelo said something about being careful about "down the road" Attorney Schoenhorn might do something (need to listen again), the way he has been operating. The entire hearing was filled with contention, IMO.
I do need to listen one more time.
I'm not afitzy with her phenomenal powers of recall, but as I remember it, FD was walking toward a garbage bin or recycling bin and the car was beyond him and was MT leaning toward the storm drain? Anyone have that shot? FD possibly covering for her deed?OK, I need some help here.
Please tell me I'm not the only one that believes we saw a video of MT pushing the FedEx envelope through a street grate to the storm drain? TIA
ETA: And where is @afitzy when you need her!
I'm not afitzy with her phenomenal powers of recall, but as I remember it, FD was walking toward a garbage bin or recycling bin and the car was beyond him and was MT leaning toward the storm drain? Anyone have that shot? FD possibly covering for her deed?
If the issue is that MT herself didn't actually do anything overt to hinder prosecution, couldn't she be charged with "aiding and abetting" FD to do it? Here's that CGS:
Sec. 53a-8. Criminal liability for acts of another. (a) A person, acting with the mental state required for commission of an offense, who solicits, requests, commands, importunes or intentionally aids another person to engage in conduct which constitutes an offense shall be criminally liable for such conduct and may be prosecuted and punished as if he were the principal offender. (underscoring added)
IMO that's even stronger than a conspiracy charge. And the prosecutor still can bring it as to the murder, the hindering and the tampering. And couldn't there even be a tampering with a witness, i.e., Pawel G, because it was his vehicle they washed and told him to get rid of the seats? MOO
Here's an explanation from an unnamed defense lawyer on a Nolo site on conspiracy, aiding & abetting.Good insight pernickety. I think we need a lawyer here!
Your research and comments are so valuable to these discussions, Hopefully one of the forum attorneys can also help us make sense of Schoenhorn's meanderings.
My mind always goes back to the person driving a getaway car in a holdup in which someone is killed. The driver is just a culpable as the person pulling the trigger in most cases. I don't know about the charging documents, however.
O/T: what does LRR stand for?
Or auditioning for a reality show.It reminds me of how MT and her family were all smiling and laughing in court—related to the murder of a mother of five kids—like they were on a lunch outing. It’s like they think this is no big deal, and that is so disrespectful. That conference reminded me of a carnival sideshow with a circus barker, backup ringers, and embarrassing attempts at figurative sleights of hand. MOO.
^^rsbmIs JS and MT saying that JFd was a bad mother and she Deserved to be Murdered?
And this 'supposed information' should Acquit Fd, MT, and KM of All the charges stemming from said Conspiracy and Murder?
I recall the state said its theory was that FD killed JFD b/c he wanted to get custody of the kids, so as to have access to their trust funds. So MT/JS might be planning to show that FD would have gotten custody anyway from the family court, so didn't have to kill JFD. But wait, didn't FD try to get the family court judge disqualified? Even called her attorney husband to ask about representing him on some other matter, then tried to claim spousal conflict of interest? So it didn't look likely the FC judge was going to award him custody. If MT opens the door to that argument, then the state can bring up MT's trip to the NY probate court to try to have a look at the file on the Hilliard Farber estate. They can bring it up anyway.In regards to the Family Court Records.
Is JS and MT saying that JFd was a bad mother and she Deserved to be Murdered?
And this 'supposed information' should Acquit Fd, MT, and KM of All the charges stemming from said Conspiracy and Murder?
All because JFd Deserved it?
The Judge and all the attorneys in Family Court had access to All records and Yet, not a single one of these court representatives stepped up to the plate to have JFd's children removed from her care?
What about the Nanny, School Teachers, Doctors, Therapists, Community Members, Athletic Coaches, Friends, Family, etc? Many of whom are Mandatory Reporters.
No one noticed that JFd was a bad mother?
'Send everyone to the gallows.'
No wonder Fd, MT, and KM had to take matters into their own hands.
NOT!!! With a Tremendous Amount of Sarcasm and a HUGE Eye Roll.
MT is the Reason that Fd CHOSE Not to see or speak to his children for 10 Months because he 'respectfully disagreed' with the Family Court Judge, when he Refused to abide to a Court Order and kick MT and daughter to the curb During Visitation and subsequently attend counseling.
And, JFd was the bad parent?
Fd Murdered the mother of his 5 children.
And, JFd was the bad parent?
Fd Committed Suicide, which the act in of itself, tells children they are not important enough.
And, JFd was the bad parent?
Fd wrote a suicide note in which he Tells the 5 children they were not important enough.
And, JFd was the bad parent?
The Family Court records have Absolutely NOTHING to do with MT's criminal case.
By the way, Where Exactly did JS obtain his law degree? Does he have Any experience with (human) Murder cases? IMO, MT should have stayed with Bowman.
IMO and with a MOO MOO here and a MOO MOO there.
A month or more ago Colangelo said re FD suicide note claiming MT and KM had nothing to do with JFD's disappearance--how would FD know that if he didn't know what happened to her?^^rsbm
Respectfully, this defense wants NO MURDER of JD. Not by FD, nobody.
This defense wants JD to be painted as one unstable, selfish, gone girl character that offed herself in some secret getaway location.
Yes, unstable JD took her life because she feared losing her children to FD and MT! The better custodial parent. (Bogus report they want to introduce).
If there's no murder by FD, there are no charges to prosecute MT or MW on and it's game over.
Defense still wanting to distance MT from FD and that's not looking so good so he's testing out the bad mother theory.
He's a real Jekyll, that JS .......
MOO
A month or more ago Colangelo said re FD suicide note claiming MT and KM had nothing to do with JFD's disappearance--how would FD know that if he didn't know what happened to her?
Yes, her Spanish ear.I'll need to rewatch the video....I kept watching Attorney Bowman in the rear of the courtroom.
And, MT was only wearing a headphone in one ear again...right?
I wonder if the direction JS and MT are going with this interest in the custody issues and their implication that JFD was not a good mother (VERY difficult to even repeat that lie) is that they will imply MT believed she was involved in a plan wherein FD would TAKE the children (you know, because [of FD's/MT's lie that] JFD was such a bad mother) and MT would cover for his whereabouts, but that MT had no idea FD was actually going there to kill JFD.In regards to the Family Court Records.
Is JS and MT saying that JFd was a bad mother and she Deserved to be Murdered?
And this 'supposed information' should Acquit Fd, MT, and KM of All the charges stemming from said Conspiracy and Murder?
All because JFd Deserved it?
The Judge and all the attorneys in Family Court had access to All records and Yet, not a single one of these court representatives stepped up to the plate to have JFd's children removed from her care?
What about the Nanny, School Teachers, Doctors, Therapists, Community Members, Athletic Coaches, Friends, Family, etc? Many of whom are Mandatory Reporters.
No one noticed that JFd was a bad mother?
'Send everyone to the gallows.'
No wonder Fd, MT, and KM had to take matters into their own hands.
NOT!!! With a Tremendous Amount of Sarcasm and a HUGE Eye Roll.
MT is the Reason that Fd CHOSE Not to see or speak to his children for 10 Months because he 'respectfully disagreed' with the Family Court Judge, when he Refused to abide to a Court Order and kick MT and daughter to the curb During Visitation and subsequently attend counseling.
And, JFd was the bad parent?
Fd Murdered the mother of his 5 children.
And, JFd was the bad parent?
Fd Committed Suicide, which the act in of itself, tells children they are not important enough.
And, JFd was the bad parent?
Fd wrote a suicide note in which he Tells the 5 children they were not important enough.
And, JFd was the bad parent?
The Family Court records have Absolutely NOTHING to do with MT's criminal case.
By the way, Where Exactly did JS obtain his law degree? Does he have Any experience with (human) Murder cases? IMO, MT should have stayed with Bowman.
IMO and with a MOO MOO here and a MOO MOO there.
^^rsbm
Respectfully, this defense wants NO MURDER of JD. Not by FD, nobody.
This defense wants JD to be painted as one unstable, selfish, gone girl character that offed herself in some secret getaway location.
Yes, unstable JD took her life because she feared losing her children to FD and MT! The better custodial parent. (Bogus report they want to introduce).
If there's no murder by FD, there are no charges to prosecute MT or MW on and it's game over.
Defense still wanting to distance MT from FD and that's not looking so good so he's testing out the bad mother theory.
He's a real Jekyll, that JS .......
MOO
Yes, that definitely makes more sense. That is what I get for checking in here after 1 am. I was too tired to make sense of this fiasco.
Fd said, no reason to murder JFd for he was on the cusp of gaining custody of the children.
Then, Why commit suicide if he did not murder JFd?
**See addendum below.
Why Did, Fd Murder JFd?
Fd Desperately Needed money and he Needed it ASAP.
Fd Erroneously Thought that if JFd were deemed 'gone girl', that he would receive her $400,000 per year Trust income.
Fd Erroneously Thought that if JFd were deemed 'gone girl' that the children would automatically revert to him and therefore he would have access to their Trust funds or at the very least, have their trust income continue to pay for their education and related expenses.
If JFd were alive, then IF Fd actually did gain full custody of the children, Fd would Not have received the $400,000 trust income from JFd. She would have only been required to pay Fd child support.
Fd was Desperate, for his house of cards had already started to collapse.
Fd did Not intend to leave, nor thought he left, a Long Trail of Evidence and therefore the 'Gone Girl' theory was spouted by NP the very minute his services were retained.
Which continued into the 'Revenge Suicide' theory After the tremendous amount of blood evidence that was found in JFd's garage, was listed in the warrants.
In the Gone Girl movie, the 'gone girl' returned home in the end.
Fd guaranteed that JFd would not thwart his Master Plan.
Therefore, we have the Murder of JFd at the hands of Fd with MT and KM being Fully Complicit Accomplices.
It was All About The Money with Fd and the children were just his meal ticket. IF Fd Truly cared for his children, then he would Never have taken their mother away from them.
IMO.
**I am still not fully convinced that Fd's intention was to Actually commit suicide. My thought is that Fd fully expected to be Found 'in time' by AC. She was sent on an errand and then came back to the house before heading to Court in Stamford. Did AC return to the house at Fd's request? Perhaps for something he 'forgot' to take with him to court and he fully expected her to come through the garage access instead of the front door? All to thwart his obvious immediate jail confinement? Attempting suicide would give Fd more time to seek additional financial security for his bond, by postponing the court hearing. Fd would need to make it all 'look' legit, including a suicide note. He would also need it to 'look' legit to AC and therefore did not involve her in the planning of the scheme. Otherwise, he would be chancing her ability or inability to maintain the scheme. We all saw how miserably MT failed with maintaining the Alibi Scripts. Might Fd have thought that the court would relax or even reduce his bail requirements because his 'mental health' was suspect? I just cannot get this thought out of my mind.
IMO.
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