Day 2 The Pineapple in the Bowl/ 12 Days of JonBenet

[BBB167893]

Was there any other food in her digestive tract besides pineapple?

Recently, people have tried to claim that, but I don't buy it. For one thing, the fact that it's coming out now seems damned convenient. For another, it's not from a reliable source.

 

[TeaTime]

Pineapple is the only food listed on the autopsy report.

Whether the spoon held fingerprints has never been revealed.

 

[SandyQLS]

I had really discounted any connection to the Prime of Miss Jean Brody. PR was very familiar with this book and had used it for her dramatic dialog talent in her pageant days from high school through Miss WVA. There is this excerpt from the book:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-pineapple.htm

"...Sandy Stranger had a feeling at the time that they were supposed to be the happiest days of her life, and on her tenth birthday she said so to her best friend Jenny Gray who had been asked to tea at Sandy's house. The specialty of the feast was pineapple cubes with cream, and the specialty of the day was that they were left to themselves. To Sandy the unfamiliar pineapple had the authentic taste and appearance of happiness and she focussed her small eyes closely on the pale gold cubes before she scooped them up with her spoon, and she thought the sharp taste on her tongue was that of a special happiness, which had nothing to do with eating, and was different from the happiness of play that one enjoyed unawares. Both girls saved the cream to the last, then ate it in spoonfuls. ..."

Tea, pineapple cubes, cream, spoons.

Is this part of the staging? Is this applicable to PDI with intent theories, or even as after-staging?



"...ure.

 

[Charliegirl610]

I had really discounted any connection to the Prime of Miss Jean Brody. PR was very familiar with this book and had used it for her dramatic dialog talent in her pageant days from high school through Miss WVA. There is this excerpt from the book:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-pineapple.htm

"...Sandy Stranger had a feeling at the time that they were supposed to be the happiest days of her life, and on her tenth birthday she said so to her best friend Jenny Gray who had been asked to tea at Sandy's house. The specialty of the feast was pineapple cubes with cream, and the specialty of the day was that they were left to themselves. To Sandy the unfamiliar pineapple had the authentic taste and appearance of happiness and she focussed her small eyes closely on the pale gold cubes before she scooped them up with her spoon, and she thought the sharp taste on her tongue was that of a special happiness, which had nothing to do with eating, and was different from the happiness of play that one enjoyed unawares. Both girls saved the cream to the last, then ate it in spoonfuls. ..."

Tea, pineapple cubes, cream, spoons.

Is this part of the staging? Is this applicable to PDI with intent theories, or even as after-staging?



"...ure.

The parallels in this case are never ending.........

 

[singularity]

I had really discounted any connection to the Prime of Miss Jean Brody. PR was very familiar with this book and had used it for her dramatic dialog talent in her pageant days from high school through Miss WVA. There is this excerpt from the book:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-pineapple.htm

"...Sandy Stranger had a feeling at the time that they were supposed to be the happiest days of her life, and on her tenth birthday she said so to her best friend Jenny Gray who had been asked to tea at Sandy's house. The specialty of the feast was pineapple cubes with cream, and the specialty of the day was that they were left to themselves. To Sandy the unfamiliar pineapple had the authentic taste and appearance of happiness and she focussed her small eyes closely on the pale gold cubes before she scooped them up with her spoon, and she thought the sharp taste on her tongue was that of a special happiness, which had nothing to do with eating, and was different from the happiness of play that one enjoyed unawares. Both girls saved the cream to the last, then ate it in spoonfuls. ..."

Tea, pineapple cubes, cream, spoons.

Is this part of the staging? Is this applicable to PDI with intent theories, or even as after-staging?



"...ure.

Yeah many years ago there were some elaborate Miss Jean Brodie theories, some even diving into religious sacrifice. Way too outlandish for me but at the same time do we chalk all that up to coincidence?

THis case has always been layered thick with oddities that have never been explained.

 

[andreww]

Yeah many years ago there were some elaborate Miss Jean Brodie theories, some even diving into religious sacrifice. Way too outlandish for me but at the same time do we chalk all that up to coincidence?

THis case has always been layered thick with oddities that have never been explained.

Nothing to explain really. Either Patsy borrowed the tea/pineapple/cream combination from the book or it was already a popular combination in the south. Are those items part of the staging? Certainly not. No mystery here either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[singularity]

Here's one old thread here discussing this.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?67296-The-Prime-of-Miss-Jean-Brodie

 

[Heymom]

Yeah many years ago there were some elaborate Miss Jean Brodie theories, some even diving into religious sacrifice. Way too outlandish for me but at the same time do we chalk all that up to coincidence?

THis case has always been layered thick with oddities that have never been explained.

On FFJ, we had a member named Brother Moon who was really into this. He had everything accounted for, wholly believing that PDI as a result of a psychotic break, and that "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" played heavily into it. Personally, I think it's the opposite of Occam's Razor and that people work far too hard to fit all of the puzzle pieces into the frame when we don't have all of the pieces of the frame.

From what I understand, the pineapples and cream thing is a somewhat common American Southern treat. So even if Patsy had copied the book that way, it just became part of her expression of life and wasn't "advanced staging" or anything like that.

 

[No it's not]

I had really discounted any connection to the Prime of Miss Jean Brody. PR was very familiar with this book and had used it for her dramatic dialog talent in her pageant days from high school through Miss WVA. There is this excerpt from the book:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-pineapple.htm

"...Sandy Stranger had a feeling at the time that they were supposed to be the happiest days of her life, and on her tenth birthday she said so to her best friend Jenny Gray who had been asked to tea at Sandy's house. The specialty of the feast was pineapple cubes with cream, and the specialty of the day was that they were left to themselves. To Sandy the unfamiliar pineapple had the authentic taste and appearance of happiness and she focussed her small eyes closely on the pale gold cubes before she scooped them up with her spoon, and she thought the sharp taste on her tongue was that of a special happiness, which had nothing to do with eating, and was different from the happiness of play that one enjoyed unawares. Both girls saved the cream to the last, then ate it in spoonfuls. ..."

Tea, pineapple cubes, cream, spoons.

Is this part of the staging? Is this applicable to PDI with intent theories, or even as after-staging?



"...ure.

I am familiar with the PTMJB theory. While I disagree ( with the poster BM), that this was a well planned in advance event ( purple Christmas etc.), I can see how some elements of the book may have reminded PR of its story and may have therefore played a role in the staging part. In the PTMJB story for example, Miss Brody is called into the head mistress' office and is confronted with a handwritten letter, that was written by 2 students of her ("childish tone"). The letter was addressed to another teacher, a close friend of hers. Here is the letter scene:

[video=youtube;OE1v7BW6UKk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE1v7BW6UKk[/video]

Also, besides the pineapples with cream, there are other eery coincidences like:

• ""Oh dear," said Rose out loud one day when they were settled to essay writing, "I can't remember how you spell 'possession.' Are there two s's or -?""
• "Painting" plays a big role in the story (paint a painting, modelling, artist)
• Class of "9 year olds", one of her classes
• obsessively leading "her" girls into a life of beauty, seduction, sacrifice
• inappropriately speaking to and about minors
• Intruder and intrusion is being mentioned more than once
• special bond to one of "her" girls, fusion of the girl's and Miss Brodie's identities ( identity disorder?)
• "It was impossible to know how much Miss Brodie planned by deliberation, or how much she worked by instinct alone. However, in this, the first test of her strength, she had the VICTORY."
• one of her students dies as a sacrifice to help her brother in war "She died a heroine"
• purple students' uniforms
• "Rose, who was famous for her sex-appeal." "Rose will be a great lover. She is above the common moral code, it does not apply to her." Miss Brody is talking about a minor here, about one of her students (again identity fusion?)

Definitely worth reading the book or (re) watching the movie. There is much more, that could be compared to JBR and PR. In one of the scenes, students are hanging a girl down from the stair reeling - head down- and just holding her by the legs, in an effort to make her "talk" about a secret. Not that that possibly happened to Jonbenet, but it certainly raised my attention.

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

Here is the full movie on youtube, if anyone likes to (re)watch it:

[video=youtube;CGtMnT2b6So]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGtMnT2b6So[/video]

 

[Tortoise]

There's something odd about the placement of the bowl of pineapple on the table. I don't think it's directly in front of any of the chairs around the table, where anyone would have been seated to eat, it's more in between chairs on a corner. And it's not close enough to the edge of the table to have been where it would have been left naturally, if it was being eaten by someone sitting down. Could have been pushed away I suppose, if someone sat at the table after it was abandoned, to create a space to do something else (like write a letter!). Plus, why wasn't it eaten?

 

[Userid]

There's something odd about the placement of the bowl of pineapple on the table. I don't think it's directly in front of any of the chairs around the table, where anyone would have been seated to eat, it's more in between chairs on a corner. And it's not close enough to the edge of the table to have been where it would have been left naturally, if it was being eaten by someone sitting down. Could have been pushed away I suppose, if someone sat at the table after it was abandoned, to create a space to do something else (like write a letter!). Plus, why wasn't it eaten?

Great post. I agree. Could it have been accessed if a child was sitting on his knees (i.e. not on his rear) on the closest chair, leaning forward over the edge of the table, with his elbows on the table? Just a thought but I agree, it seems like things were moved on this table. I posited the same thing (that the note was written here and that something was moved to make space to write the note) in another thread, but I have to wonder: weren't there other closer tables (closer to where the note pad was stored) to write the note?

 

[Tortoise]

Great post. I agree. Could it have been accessed if a child was sitting on his knees (i.e. not on his rear) on the closest chair, leaning forward over the edge of the table, with his elbows on the table? Just a thought but I agree, it seems like things were moved on this table. I posited the same thing (that the note was written here and that something was moved to make space to write the note) in another thread, but I have to wonder: weren't there other closer tables (closer to where the note pad was stored) to write the note?

I don't know, I've given it some thought, I've seen really small children sitting like that on their knees to reach the table, but would an almost 10 yr old boy be able to fit his knees, shins and feet on a dining chair comfortably? Here's a few pictures of those chairs, but couldn't find one of the seat part. The ones at the side of the table are white hard furniture and it looks like the carver chair (red floral fabric) was almost like a padded armchair -

 

[Tortoise]

Found this crime scene video on the CBS program, so I did a screenshot.

 

[Ambitioned]

Someone here (maybe ukguy?) had a theory about Burke playing Nintendo in his room and giving her a piece to keep her quiet.

Is it possible the bowl was taken to his room and then put back on the table? Given they were slobs, I doubt it but was wondering.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Someone here (maybe ukguy?) had a theory about Burke playing Nintendo in his room and giving her a piece to keep her quiet.

Is it possible the bowl was taken to his room and then put back on the table? Given they were slobs, I doubt it but was wondering.

I agree that Burke could have taken the bowl of pineapple to eat elsewhere in the house and later placed it on the table - perhaps momentarily but then something happened and the pineapple was left on the table unfinished.

I really think the bowl of pineapple plays a part in what happened that night, especially after seeing the video of 10 year old Burke's reaction when shown a picture of the bowl on the table.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Tortoise]

There seems to be an out of place fifth chair at the table, which is a bit odd for a family of four. I can understand them having more chairs to use when they have the older kids staying, but why leave them at the table when they are not staying. I thought perhaps the extra chair may have been put there because the gingerbread houses on the table were blocking the area where one of the kids might normally have sat, but why not just move that chair along instead of bringing an extra chair to the table.? Do the heavy table legs prevent the chair from moving easily. Just some thoughts.

Christmas Day pancakes was the last family meal served at that table, but it doesn't look like it, with all that stuff on there. Speaking personally, I have junk that lands on my table too, but when it is a family celebration/occasion I make an effort to clear the table and make it look attractive. I think the state of that table being cluttered, shows Patsy on Christmas Day morning, was overwhelmed with preparations for their upcoming trips and present wrapping, and couldn't manage to think about niceties like table presentation and family photographs. Just going now to Patsy's state of mind.

Another thought - why didn't she have the presents wrapped before Christmas? She knew it was going to be a busy time. Was she really still present wrapping as she says she was? John made that trip to the airport to load the presents on the plane. Why, if Patsy hadn't finished wrapping, and why were there still loads of bags seemingly everywhere in the hall and butler kitchen, packed with presents to take to the lake? See where it's easy to let the mind wander. Back to the table and the pineapple.

The tissue box makes me think Patsy wrote the note there, crying. I think it's feasible that she wrote the note with gloves on (to distort her handwriting and leave no prints) and that is why her prints aren't on the tea glass, as she moved it to the side to clear a space to write.

The last bit. I think Patsy knew JonBenet had eaten pineapple and cream when they came home, or at least she had prepared a bowl for her, and she had eaten some then went off to play, and then Burke came along with his tea and moved her bowl, leaving his prints on it. JonBenet didn't need to leave prints on the bowl if she used the spoon or her fingers for a couple of pieces. The spoon is not as massive as the Ramseys would like to make out, it fit comfortably in, without tipping out of a normal sized cereal bowl. It's hard to lap up cream from a teaspoon, or even a FORK!, as John seems to think the children would have used. He probably didn't know about the cream, I'll give him that. Kolar said

To my knowledge, I don’t believe any DNA testing was performed on the tea glass, spoon or the bowl of pineapple.

I speculate that Burke recognised the photo of the pineapple bowl because of course he had seen it, or he remembered it, but he had no reason to admit eating pineapple if he really didn't. He was told to say JonBenet went straight to bed asleep from the car, and so he was conflicted as to whether to say he knew she had pineapple that night. He felt loyalty to his parents to stick to what they had told him to say. He had tea. Patsy had no clue that the medical examiner would look at JonBenet's intestinal contents, it's not something I would imagine they look at if there is an obvious cause of death. By the time she and John found out LE knew about the pineapple, it was too late for them to change their sleeping story.

 

[PositiveLight]

There seems to be an out of place fifth chair at the table, which is a bit odd for a family of four. I can understand them having more chairs to use when they have the older kids staying, but why leave them at the table when they are not staying. I thought perhaps the extra chair may have been put there because the gingerbread houses on the table were blocking the area where one of the kids might normally have sat, but why not just move that chair along instead of bringing an extra chair to the table.? Do the heavy table legs prevent the chair from moving easily. Just some thoughts.

Christmas Day pancakes was the last family meal served at that table, but it doesn't look like it, with all that stuff on there. Speaking personally, I have junk that lands on my table too, but when it is a family celebration/occasion I make an effort to clear the table and make it look attractive. I think the state of that table being cluttered, shows Patsy on Christmas Day morning, was overwhelmed with preparations for their upcoming trips and present wrapping, and couldn't manage to think about niceties like table presentation and family photographs. Just going now to Patsy's state of mind.

Another thought - why didn't she have the presents wrapped before Christmas? She knew it was going to be a busy time. Was she really still present wrapping as she says she was? John made that trip to the airport to load the presents on the plane. Why, if Patsy hadn't finished wrapping, and why were there still loads of bags seemingly everywhere in the hall and butler kitchen, packed with presents to take to the lake? See where it's easy to let the mind wander. Back to the table and the pineapple.

The tissue box makes me think Patsy wrote the note there, crying. I think it's feasible that she wrote the note with gloves on (to distort her handwriting and leave no prints) and that is why her prints aren't on the tea glass, as she moved it to the side to clear a space to write.

The last bit. I think Patsy knew JonBenet had eaten pineapple and cream when they came home, or at least she had prepared a bowl for her, and she had eaten some then went off to play, and then Burke came along with his tea and moved her bowl, leaving his prints on it. JonBenet didn't need to leave prints on the bowl if she used the spoon or her fingers for a couple of pieces. The spoon is not as massive as the Ramseys would like to make out, it fit comfortably in, without tipping out of a normal sized cereal bowl. It's hard to lap up cream from a teaspoon, or even a FORK!, as John seems to think the children would have used. He probably didn't know about the cream, I'll give him that. Kolar said

I speculate that Burke recognised the photo of the pineapple bowl because of course he had seen it, or he remembered it, but he had no reason to admit eating pineapple if he really didn't. He was told to say JonBenet went straight to bed asleep from the car, and so he was conflicted as to whether to say he knew she had pineapple that night. He felt loyalty to his parents to stick to what they had told him to say. He had tea. Patsy had no clue that the medical examiner would look at JonBenet's intestinal contents, it's not something I would imagine they look at if there is an obvious cause of death. By the time she and John found out LE knew about the pineapple, it was too late for them to change their sleeping story.

I actually think ME's do full autopsies when the death is suspicious.
I'd imagine after they discovered the head wound and vaginal injuries, they felt it important to check her stomach contents. It's a good way to tell how long after a meal someone died. They knew she had ate at the White's so they possibly was looking for that to determine a more precise time line and in the process found the pineapple. JMOO but I know they will do this when looking for drugs or other injuries that may not be apparent initially.

 

[UKGuy]

Someone here (maybe ukguy?) had a theory about Burke playing Nintendo in his room and giving her a piece to keep her quiet.

Is it possible the bowl was taken to his room and then put back on the table? Given they were slobs, I doubt it but was wondering.

Ambitioned,
Not me. Although my ideas regarding the pineapple have moved over the years. Currently I think the bowl you see on the table is a serving bowl, hence the large spoon, too large for either BR or JonBenet to comfortably eat with.

So there were likely two other bowls, one for BR, one for JonBenet, and the next morning the helpers took away the dirty bowls and washed them, but left the serving bowl, as it might be going into the fridge?

One way to partially confirm this is to establish whether BR liked condensed milk with pineapple, so far I've only heard he maybe liked pineapple. I think Patsy said he disliked pineapple?

On the Dr Phil show BR was force fed the questions regarding pineapple, so his answers are suspect.

It looks to me as if BR arranged, i.e. Secret Santa which I see as a process, not a dress up character, a pineapple snack after the parents were in bed.

BR and JonBenet were likely doing what kids all over the country do at Christmas time, i.e. stay up late, eat sweets, drink soda, play with their new toys, and dream up childish adventures.

The additional item here is that BR and JonBenet were also sleeping in each others bedroom, Patsy confirmed that JonBenet had slept in BR's bedroom on Christmas Eve, so what would be different about Christmas Night?

.

 

[Ambitioned]

I really think the bowl of pineapple plays a part in what happened that night, especially after seeing the video of 10 year old Burke's reaction when shown a picture of the bowl on the table.

And his reaction to Dr. over his soda. I know people say it's no big deal and they wouldn't want to drink it after someone else drank out of it because of germs. I know this. What stands out is his reaction. When I was a kid I'd just be quiet and not touch my drink again or throw it away subtly. BR made a big deal out of it and indicated he couldn't drink from it anymore. This is telling to me. Why? Because it fits in context with other statements. It has been mentioned before he didn't like his things touched with. I've stated before I can only imagine how he reacted if she played with *his* trains or *his N64* He even admitted on Dr. Phil that she annoyed him constantly when he did his gaming.