DC DC - Relisha Tenau Rudd, 8, SE DC, 26 Feb 2014 - #4

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  • #741
Again...IT was also used to refer to the social worker. ;)

I wondered the same thing, but the detective could be referencing the female individual and Witness Two as one person. However, I would agree Witness Two could be RSL's wife. A woman would mention AT having domestic problems and AT considering leaving KT where a male would be less inclined to bring it up, imo.

ETA: And I give up on trying to explain the IT!! :deadhorse: Because IT really doesn't matter! LOL

The woman could be the driver and Witness #2...Lyles's wife possibly because FB says he's married to a person with the initials "RT"...and the warrant said she was taken from the home of the person RL that was removed from the Amber Alert. Now that would leave only one person, RSL(witness one), RT(female witness two/driver from Red Roof Inn), KT, AT, & one more person = 5. Phewwwww, now who is that person...he/she/it...lol. I think that's a good scenerio but it is JMO.

bbm

Impossible that RT was involved in any of this. Because those of us that have been following this since day one already know that RT is deceased. She passed away in 2012.

Also, RSL has never been named a POI in this case. I don't think we can use his name like that. (I believe it is against TOS) We have to use his initials.
 
  • #742
Thanks SS!
Yep, mine is a good egg...working as a social worker in one of the worst sections of her city. I just hope she doesn't burn out...it's a noble yet low paying career.

My best friend in high school became a social worker...in DC! She didn't work long before she was burned out, such a cultural shock to her. She went right back into college and got a new degree. She still lives in northern VA, I asked about this case...she won't even comment on it. Said it was too much the norm. :(
 
  • #743
There is something I must say as throughout this case, the attitude and comments from family members and some of the public has displayed a common misconception that hinders investigation or detection of child abuse - the common denominator is ' Relisha enjoyed going with KT, she doesn't look scared on that video..She wasn't frightened of him or didn't want to go any place with him, she was always happy to see him etc' In the words of one family member' This wasn't a child who cried to not go with KT, this was a child who cried to go WITH KT'.

Now, children who are being groomed then abused, will still go with the abuser peacefully. The nature of child abuse is so very manipulative and psychological, that even by the time the child is being physically harmed, they may not show signs of distress when in the company of their abuser, it will manifest in other ways. Stomach aches, headaches or bed wetting, aggression or acting out ..

Many people miss the signs of abuse in their own children because the common belief that a child will show fear in the presence of their abuser - it is just rarely so. Sometimes the child is so brainwashed and confused that they will not show fear or say they do not want to go with so- and - so because they feel dirty, or they may get into trouble if they say why, as adults will always ask the questions a child fears to answer as they just cannot cope with saying it.

A child is still a child, no matter what goes on they tend to still play and still act semi - normal, which is why it is so hard to detect unless you see a change in that child, even a slight one.

I would have happily gone with my abuser/s and did so for months because I was groomed and given the affection and attention I was lacking at home, plus by the time things got bad I was petrified of them telling anyone - they brainwash you into thinking it's normal and its your fault , that if you tell you will be the one who nobody believes and gets into trouble etc, you family will go to prison if you tell etc.
My Father was so aggressive and my home life so violent that I thought If I say anything my Dad will kill someone and go to prison again, or they will take it out on me and it will harm my siblings etc..its very soul destroying. Its a trust issue - children will still trust an abuser as they are innocent children and what happened yesterday may not happen again, in their eyes or the abuser explains it away. Relishas home life was turbulent, she would have been wary of causing a 'fuss'.

Relisha would have been programmed not to say anything to SY anyway, so if SY was as groomed as she , SY could delude herself and be in denial about what was happening easily, or SY could have continued her blind eye unquestioned and oblivious.

Its very mind controlling, abusers rely on that to maintain the control.

So every comment I saw and have seen , plus heard saying how Relisha wasn't scared of KT etc , like that's a sure sign he was kind to her and definitely not harming her etc, makes me feel very frustrated, especially for children of adults who are unaware right now of what's going on because of this naïve assumption.

Because that explanation was used so much during this investigation early on and backed up by so many it really made it harder for LE to maintain that a crime may have been committed and to get the support they needed to move faster.
 
  • #744
Hi paintedred, that a very insightful post, I am sorry to hear what you went through, but very happy to see you hear posting and reaching out to others!

I was a foster carer a few yr ago and I can absolutely relate to what you say.
I looked after one little one, who had been through similar before been taken into care. This child still had to have contact with one family member (not the abuser, but this person knew what was going on),
Well, the little one missed her abuser, drew pics for him, constantly asked how he was etc.
the family member who did have contact with little one, would bring gifts from the abuser!

Little one never discussed abuse with me, (as a foster carer, I was there to listen, but they had therapist to speak with)' it was a heartbreaking placement, il never forget little one.
When I read through their file, I was expecting some sort of anger, maybe fear, but the only anger present in the beginning was towards social worker for making them leave home. X
 
  • #745
Hey, Lilybell!

:loveyou:

I can really understand that childs way of thinking. It is a shock for those who do not know what goes on to see a child react this way, it is so ingrained that a child will show fear , the thing is abuse cannot continue if the child shows too much fear or speaks up, so they will be totally brainwashed into even liking their abuser.

That's so sad, thinking of the little one you looked after. drawing pictures for their abuser etc. Well done you for making a positive impact on their life, regardless.

I always wanted to foster, but it is very difficult to get permission in the UK and due to my childhood trauma it would sadly be held against me. Maybe that was for the best, I don't know how much my heart could take . I work with children in schools with special emotional and behavioural needs and I like to think the empathy people like us and foster carers etc show these children make a real impact on their lives in the long run.
 
  • #746
Hey, Lilybell!

:loveyou:

I can really understand that childs way of thinking. It is a shock for those who do not know what goes on to see a child react this way, it is so ingrained that a child will show fear , the thing is abuse cannot continue if the child shows too much fear or speaks up, so they will be totally brainwashed into even liking their abuser.

That's so sad, thinking of the little one you looked after. drawing pictures for their abuser etc. Well done you for making a positive impact on their life, regardless.

I always wanted to foster, but it is very difficult to get permission in the UK and due to my childhood trauma it would sadly be held against me. Maybe that was for the best, I don't know how much my heart could take . I work with children in schools with special emotional and behavioural needs and I like to think the empathy people like us and foster carers etc show these children make a real impact on their lives in the long run.

Hey paintedred, I'm in the uk too, your experiences should not go against you,
If anything, your experiences could help so many.
What better way to understand these children than someone who has been there and survived!
I'm sure you make a big impact on the children you work with now. What ever you chose to do in life, I wish you the best x
 
  • #747
Interesting news....not a rumor- info from local acquaintances in the area

Apparently the FBI raided a girls house in SE- she claimed RR on her taxes- just as assumed - she got money for her kids due to someone else claiming. She was questioned heavily and house was torn apart. The friend that knows her said she really knew nothing about anything...other than, well tax fraud.


Apparently a few weeks before Tatum asked a friend of a friend if she knew where in the area that they offered affordable housing. He had the little girl with him. This was off Benning rd. smh.

Respectfully, unless you have a link this is considered rumor.
 
  • #748
from pg 3 & 4 of the warrant:
Pursuant to witness interviews and an on-scene investigation the following account of this incident was established. A witness (hereinafter referred to as Witness One) reported that decedent checked into the Red Roof Inn on March 19, 2014, at about 10:04 p.m. The decedent, Khalil Tatum, Witness One and two individuals were all captured on numerous surveillance cameras at the Red Roof Irm (sic) in the area of room #132. Less than an hour after they checked in, Witness One and two of the individuals can be seen leaving in a vehicle driven by the female individual. The decedent and Kahlil Tatum were the only people left in the room. Witness One reported at approximately 5:40 a.m. the next morning, IT returned to the Red Roof Inn and talked to Kahlil Tatum. Witness One stated that IT observed the decedent lying on the bed when Kahlil Tatum answered the door. Witness One also stated that Kahlil Tatum refused to allow IT to enter the room.

An interview with an additional witness (hereinafter referred to as Witness Two) revealed that the decedent was having domestic problems with Kahlil Tatum. Witness Two stated that the decedent was contemplating leaving Kahlil Tatum. Witness Two also reported within the last month IT conducted internet searches for Kahlil Tatum in an attempt to purchase a handgun. Witness Two reported IT utilized an Apple Ipad and downloaded images of handguns for Kahlil Tatum. http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/local/search-warrant-for-kahlil-tatums-locker/914/

Sounds like there were five people in total and the female in the group of three (not KT or AT) drove a vehicle away with the two. UGH!!!!!!!

And during this month when these witnesses knew all of these intimate details of Karl's life and marriage and hovering around motels with him and talking to his wife, NO ONE saw or heard about RELISHA??????? Seriously ?
 
  • #749
There is something I must say as throughout this case, the attitude and comments from family members and some of the public has displayed a common misconception that hinders investigation or detection of child abuse - the common denominator is ' Relisha enjoyed going with KT, she doesn't look scared on that video..She wasn't frightened of him or didn't want to go any place with him, she was always happy to see him etc' In the words of one family member' This wasn't a child who cried to not go with KT, this was a child who cried to go WITH KT'.

Now, children who are being groomed then abused, will still go with the abuser peacefully. The nature of child abuse is so very manipulative and psychological, that even by the time the child is being physically harmed, they may not show signs of distress when in the company of their abuser, it will manifest in other ways. Stomach aches, headaches or bed wetting, aggression or acting out ..

Many people miss the signs of abuse in their own children because the common belief that a child will show fear in the presence of their abuser - it is just rarely so. Sometimes the child is so brainwashed and confused that they will not show fear or say they do not want to go with so- and - so because they feel dirty, or they may get into trouble if they say why, as adults will always ask the questions a child fears to answer as they just cannot cope with saying it.

A child is still a child, no matter what goes on they tend to still play and still act semi - normal, which is why it is so hard to detect unless you see a change in that child, even a slight one.

I would have happily gone with my abuser/s and did so for months because I was groomed and given the affection and attention I was lacking at home, plus by the time things got bad I was petrified of them telling anyone - they brainwash you into thinking it's normal and its your fault , that if you tell you will be the one who nobody believes and gets into trouble etc, you family will go to prison if you tell etc.
My Father was so aggressive and my home life so violent that I thought If I say anything my Dad will kill someone and go to prison again, or they will take it out on me and it will harm my siblings etc..its very soul destroying. Its a trust issue - children will still trust an abuser as they are innocent children and what happened yesterday may not happen again, in their eyes or the abuser explains it away. Relishas home life was turbulent, she would have been wary of causing a 'fuss'.

Relisha would have been programmed not to say anything to SY anyway, so if SY was as groomed as she , SY could delude herself and be in denial about what was happening easily, or SY could have continued her blind eye unquestioned and oblivious.

Its very mind controlling, abusers rely on that to maintain the control.

So every comment I saw and have seen , plus heard saying how Relisha wasn't scared of KT etc , like that's a sure sign he was kind to her and definitely not harming her etc, makes me feel very frustrated, especially for children of adults who are unaware right now of what's going on because of this naïve assumption.

Because that explanation was used so much during this investigation early on and backed up by so many it really made it harder for LE to maintain that a crime may have been committed and to get the support they needed to move faster.

Yes, exactly! I could have written this post myself...your words are my words, but you do a better job of expressing them. Thank you for another excellent post, paintedred.
 
  • #750
I checked IR FB page, he's friends with the name T Young. I checked her FB at the pics that you can go through at the top. There a guy holding a toddler, who looks with my bad eyesight, that could possibly resemble the Metro guy.Not sure how the lighting would affect physical looks.:twocents:

Thanks SS!
Yep, mine is a good egg...working as a social worker in one of the worst sections of her city. I just hope she doesn't burn out...it's a noble yet low paying career.

She can always leave if she gets overwhelmed by it and be proud of what she accomplished. Mom gave her wings and roots. She has the option to leave and do something else or stay put in doing what she may like. You gave your child a wonderful role model. I too often get annoyed with people who try to beat the system and are quite successful at it ...but I try to look at the whole picture. They often live in crime ridden areas and have a lifestyle that I would never want for myself or my child. They may get money and benefits but often are not enriching the life of their children by getting them out of that gov't dependent lifestyle.

You would never quit your job and accept assistance without truly needing it - you have too much pride in yourself. You have more than a pot to wizz in I am sure if you look beyond material items. Karma will come back and reward you.
 
  • #751
What I keep going back to here is the "WHY". I can guess that KT killed AT because she was a risk to him and knew too much. She may have threatened him with going to police about what she knew. But if he planned to harm Relisha when he bought those supplies - I can't understand why. Producing the child for school officials at that point would have quieted that fire. Even if the timing was during when he was caught with impersonating a doctor - he could have probably lied his way out of that saying it wasn't him on the phone . And even if he could not - I doubt the punishment would be so great to resort to murder??? I feel something went awry with setup he had with Relisha - something became a threat to him. Maybe she was starting to protest or he felt she would tell authorities. Maybe AT was a catalyst and started saying she was going to blow the whistle.

If I go along with assuming Relisha was harmed in early March - I just don't get what would drive him to do that even before authorities were on his case.
 
  • #752
Just de-lurking for a moment to hazard a guess. Could IT stand for Individual Testifying or something similar? I haven't read everything but the examples I've seen all seem to do with testimony of some sort.
 
  • #753
No one called then police. They found out about the Red Roof Inn when they put out a BOLO for Tatum's car and tags. It states that in one of the warrants. His car was found in the lot of the Red Roof Inn. But yes, three cars. . .AT's, KT's and the one that the other three(RSL, a female driver, and one other person) traveled in.
e

My comment about who called the police was based on another comment. I just remember receiving phone alerts, breaking news bulletins, and forgot that that did come first. But, my point was that it was already planned for RSL to come pick him up the next morning. But, I wonder if AT was dead prior to the other 3 leaving also. Its really strange how information from witness 1 & witness 2 was so freely given after the police went to their home. Why was witness 1 not charged with conspiracy or aiding & abetting...since he seemed so concerned about AT's status after the fact but not that morning when he seen her lying face down. Then, he took him to the Metro station. So, I wonder whom called in the tip for both of those cars in that parking lot. In that area, things are kind of hush hush. IMO...witness 1 and/or witness 2 made that call.

It's just my opinion though...rambling thoughts.
 
  • #754
If I go along with assuming Relisha was harmed in early March - I just don't get what would drive him to do that even before authorities were on his case.

RSBM

I am sorry, this is a graphic opinion only.

If he was sexually assaulting her - he may not have meant to kill her. When a very large man assaults a very small girl, very bad things can and do happen.
 
  • #755
Why wouldn't they use the word "they" it is non gender specific?

Yeah. IT seems to me that IT is probably some sort of LE acronym or shorthand, but IT keeps puzzling me no end. I laid awake for a while trying to figure IT out but IT just got fuzzier and fuzzier, y'know? IT's a mystery.

And IT probably doesn't make any difference anyway. IT is not the most poorly written part of that report. I guess as long as the judge could figure IT out to issue the warrant. :D
 
  • #756
No. RSL didn't do all those things as I pointed out earlier in this post and he cannot be IT because IT is used in reference to 3 different people. RSL could be Witness One. Who is Witness Two?:

Prince George's County Warrant page 5:

Witness One:

- Reported Decedent checked into the Red Roof Inn on March 19, 2014, at about 10:04 pm.
- Seen on video near the room
- Left in less than an hour with 2 individuals in a vehicle driven by female individual
- Returned at 5:40am and talked to KT
- Observed AT on bed
- Stated KT did not allow admittance into room

Witness Two:

- Revealed AT was having domestic issues with KT
- Stated AT was contemplating leaving KT
- Admitted to conducting internet search for KT for gun during past month
- Utilized Apple I-Pad and downloaded images of guns for KT

Is everyone aware that witness 2(female driver from Red Roof Inn, resides at the same address as RSL is possibly his wife that is mentioned on FB which last name also start with a "T", and another relative of KT. JMO but why is witness 2 saying that AT was having domestic issues with KT and AT was contemplating leaving KT. He filed for divorce on February 7, 2014, and this is a fact...FindingTheMissing post a snippet of court document on Thread #2 of this same forum, page 41, and post #1018. So, IMO...why is she helping KT search for a gun!?!?!? IMO...of witness 2, she's lying also!!! The doctor's side of the family must have the same problems as SY, AY, AW/TW, etc...IJS!!!
 
  • #757
ok, sorry if I missed this, was the person that saw the wife on the bed, did he know she was dead?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 
  • #758
I think Witness Two is a female. Most women confide in other women about marital issues. Men generally don't want to hear about problems a woman is having with her husband/SO.
 
  • #759
  • #760
bbm

Impossible that RT was involved in any of this. Because those of us that have been following this since day one already know that RT is deceased. She passed away in 2012.

Also, RSL has never been named a POI in this case. I don't think we can use his name like that. (I believe it is against TOS) We have to use his initials.

You are correct. RSL was not a POI, he was only on the initial Amber alert then he was removed when it was updated. I apologize for labeling him as such. RT is deceased which I did say in an earlier post in a different thread. It was very late and I must have been sleepy, frustrated, and off my rocker. So, I will correct that also...witness 2(female acquitance that possibly resides at the same address as RSL/female driver from Red Roof Inn). I'm still new to this forum so my apologies for my earlier post that refers labels RSL incorrectly and voicing my opinion as a fact...it was clearly my opinion and I stand corrected.
 
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