DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Herat]

I'd like to know who the VIP was that was in the helicopter.

No VIP was in the helicopter

It was a routine crew doing what is called a "training" flight but is really a flight to maintain flight hour qualifications in experienced crew.

 

[Ssschu]

It hasn't been determined that the several ATC personel were at fault, despite being short-staffed.

Agreed. I'm not blaming the ATC because he clearly communicated the flight path of the CRJ to the helicopter.

My comment was more of a side bar about sending more air traffic to an already understaffed airport.

 

[Chimera]

I'd like to know who the VIP was that was in the helicopter.

I was under the impression that it was lower level staff-- but included a captain, however no VIPs were on board ?

 

[Dotta]

No VIP was in the helicopter

It was a routine crew doing what is called a "training" flight but is really a flight to maintain flight hour qualifications in experienced crew.

But
how on earth the "routine training flight" flew into collision route with a passenger plane preparing to land?

IMO
helicopters have no place in this space,
it is too congested as it is without choppers suddenly appearing.

My heart hurts for the victims and their poor families.
So many talented children

What a tragedy!

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Maybe pat25 thought cjr was coming in for landing from the other direction.jmo

 

[dalsglen]

Agreed. I'm not blaming the ATC because he clearly communicated the flight path of the CRJ to the helicopter.

My comment was more of a side bar about sending more air traffic to an already understaffed airport.

Understaffed or just plainly over used? Why should ATC be in control of military planes/choppers when they already have potentially hundreds of normal pax on their shoulders every minute? They shouldn't. They've got enough on their shoulders. The military is meant to be the best of the best right? Where's their control? Who's watching them? No one?

Night training in urban areas is absolutely needed but you do this in CONTROLLED environments until you are confident.

Now, I have to say I'm at this point I'm a firm believer that the helo sadly had eyes on the plane that was taking off rather than the victims plane.

 

[DS2021]

Angela and Sean were on the plane

At least 2 skaters, 1 coach from UD Figure Skating Club killed in plane, helicopter collision

Coach Alexandr Kirsanov and skaters Angela Yang and Sean Kay were on the plane, Kirsanov's wife, Natalia Gudin confirmed.

www.delawareonline.com

A Delaware coach and at least two members of the University of Delaware Figure Skating Club were on the deadly American Airlines flight from Wichita, Kansas to Washington, D.C. on Wednesday night, the coach's wife confirmed to Delaware Online/The News Journal.

Alexandr "Sasha" Kirsanov, who coached Angela Yang and Sean Kay, was killed alongside his students, said his wife, Natalia Gudin. She spoke via phone from Washington, D.C., where she was temporarily being housed as recovery efforts continued.

 

[nerosleuth]

Even though I am not a pilot, it is my understanding that there are certain corridors where aircrafts can fly due to airspace restrictions in the Washington DC area.

Looking at a road map, there is an air force base across the river from where the Reagan National Airport.

It appears to me that commercial aircrafts have to fly over the air force base in order to align with one of the runways for landing.

I'm thinking that with the high amount of air traffic in the restricted airspace corridors, you have to wonder if commercial and military airports should be so close to each other in that same area.

 

[indicolite22]

Maybe pat25 thought cjr was coming in for landing from the other direction.jmo

A different runway number would have been given by the ATC in that case (even if it is the same runway).

 

[Herat]

Understaffed or just plainly over used? Why should ATC be in control of military planes/choppers when they already have potentially hundreds of normal pax on their shoulders every minute? They shouldn't. They've got enough on their shoulders. The military is meant to be the best of the best right? Where's their control? Who's watching them? No one?

Night training in urban areas is absolutely needed but you do this in CONTROLLED environments until you are confident.

Now, I have to say I'm at this point I'm a firm believer that the helo sadly had eyes on the plane that was taking off rather than the victims plane.

I think it's more likely the Blackhawk was seeing the arriving flight behind AA5342 ( to the south of AA5342) and completely missed seeing the flight right in front of them. It is possible AA5342 was banked slightly to the left because of the wind NW at about 25 mph, so that the right wing was up slightly, the landing lights were not visible, nor was the lighting on the tail showing the aircraft identification.

One might also wonder about what night vision googles masks in these kinds of low-light situations.

 

[Herat]

A different runway number would have been given by the ATC in that case (even if it is the same runway).

I would think PAT 25 would have been unable to see a commercial aircraft landing to the south on 19/33 runway, whereas they are essentially face to face with the line-up of arriving flights coming from the south to land on Runway 1 or Runway 33.

 

[PrairieWind]

But
how on earth the "routine training flight" flew into collision route with a passenger plane preparing to land?

IMO
helicopters have no place in this space,
it is too congested as it is without choppers suddenly appearing.

My heart hurts for the victims and their poor families.
So many talented children

What a tragedy!

JMO

the military is routinely tasked with flying personnel in and out of her plus its own defense related operations. It is just a fact of this being the nation's capital. This helicopter was apparently in its correct corridor, but the timing to cross the flight approach corridor was incorrect. How and why is the question.

 

[DS2021]

Air traffic controller was doing the job of two people during DC plane crash due to tower being understaffed, FAA says

The air traffic controller working at the time of the deadly plane-helicopter crash in Washington was doing the work of two people, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

nypost.com

Air traffic controller was doing the job of two people during crash, FAA says

 

[neverstoplooking]

As highly complex and technical investigations go, it appears that, now, major air disasters resulting in mass catastrophic loss of human life, can be concluded and summed up within hours of the tragedy, communicating to the devastated grieving surviving family members that the loss of their loved one’s life in a fiery mid-air crash - can be attributed to something other than what an official forensic investigation conducted by highly educated and qualified experts in the field will determine.

God bless the first responders, the men and women of the NTSB and other legitimate authorities tasked with investigating this tragedy, and God bless the victims and their surviving family members.

We owe them at minimum an actual cause why this tragedy occurred.

 

[Cryptic]

Does anyone have insight into how elevation is determined and adjusted? Is it assigned? Is it manual entry? Etc. Appreciate any insight

I have never been a pilot, but..... I have binge watched You Tube's Air crash Investigations and former pilot, now You Tuber detailing small plane crashes.

That big caveat aside....

- Elevation seems to be assigned by the ATC, pilots need permission to change elevations. Depending on the area, that need can be a formality (but still needs to be followed), or.... a very exact and very needed part of the flight.

But..... I don't think (key word) that elevations are part of the landing process per se. Rather, the commercial aircraft are brought into contact by ATC to a certain "way point" (electronic beacon). The pilots then dial in on a signal emitted by the runways ("localizer"?), or they let autopilot do it.

Once the approach starts, there does not seem to be a need for further ATC elevation assignments, because ATC knows the plane is landing and also know he (and in more cases, "she") will be descending at a certain rate and at a "angle of attack" to meet the run way.

 

[Seattle1]

I feel like safety should be above all else and if flight controllers are short staffed, then there should be a reduction in planes arriving/leaving. I understand this would mess up connecting flights and so on, but if there aren't enough ATC's to safely communicate with ALL aircraft, then there just aren't enough.

Would they allow commercial planes to fly without 2 pilots? I think not. So why is a heavily congested area with multiple airports and military bases, along with key places like the Pentagon, White House, and Capitol.. all within a short distance away allowed to be controlled like this without enough staff to get it done safely?

Many facts are being omitted left in MSM reporting here. For example, congress recently approved request to expand the perimeter (i.e., allow for incoming flights/slots) without physical expansion of the airport. And we don't know if ATC adjusted for increased traffic. Regardless, we know the pilot and ATC communicated as required here and this crash is likely due to pilot error. MOO

Ref post # 472.

 

[Herat]

As highly complex and technical investigations go, it appears that, now, major air disasters resulting in mass catastrophic loss of human life, can be concluded and summed up within hours of the tragedy, communicating to the devastated grieving surviving family members that the loss of their loved one’s life in a fiery mid-air crash - can be attributed to something other than what an official forensic investigation conducted by highly educated and qualified experts in the field will determine.

God bless the first responders, the men and women of the NTSB and other legitimate authorities tasked with investigating this tragedy, and God bless the victims and their surviving family members.

We owe them at minimum an actual cause why this tragedy occurred.

We owe them at a minimum the CORRECT cause of why this tragedy happened.

 

[neverstoplooking]

Air traffic controller was doing the job of two people during DC plane crash due to tower being understaffed, FAA says

The air traffic controller working at the time of the deadly plane-helicopter crash in Washington was doing the work of two people, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

nypost.com

Air traffic controller was doing the job of two people during crash, FAA says

That’s been common and typical - since the 1970’s!
That’s why PATCO went on strike in 1981…and were fired by the POTUS as a result. ATC has historically been understaffed, supplemented by long OT hours, mandatory double-shift, etc….

IF this was an ATC caused tragedy, BET that he or she, or someone in that tower - will face federal criminal charges.

That’s why the INTEGRITY of the investigation is so critical, and that the investigators are not influenced by politics in any way.

 

[neverstoplooking]

We owe them at a minimum the CORRECT cause of why this tragedy happened.

Sure, and that’s not likely to be delivered by highly unqualified, 0-experienced, politically-motivated NON investigator within hours of the tragedy while the bodies are still being recovered…you know, just like it’s been since the dawn days of air travel.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Honest question. Does airport ATC typically control military flights out on maneuvers? I would have thought the military controls its own aircraft. I have no idea how it all works, though.

That’s a very good question. I suppose someone would still have to oversee the big picture of all flights. But does the military have a seat in the ATC room to direct their personnel? I expect we will learn a lot in the coming days (months). Or maybe not, due to the confidential nature of military operations.

Maybe someone here will know..
Again, great observation and question.