DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Herat]

What do you mean about 'allowing' people to resign? Resigning and fleeing are two different things. In legitimate and responsible businesses they know the impact mass layoffs or voluntary retirements have when strings are attached. eg. do this now and you'll get a severance package or be prepared to get fired without any financial cushion. Disemboweling businesses is what a hostile takeover does.

Respectfully, you throw that word 'qualified' around as if there are throngs of people in the aviation industry who aren't qualified for the job. It takes 5 years for an ATC to be able to do the job solo. Five years. You know what drives the increase in air traffic? It's customer demand. Do you really think the American public will be okay with a drastic reduction in air travel while hundreds of ATC go through the training for their jobs which takes years. Working in a toxic environment where the threat of losing your job is a terrible way to do business and that more than anything else: increased traffic, over stressed airports that struggle to provide services is a sure fire way to see more and more of these tragic events.

And airline companies have great lobbyists in Congress, much more influential than ATC unions.

Try getting the big airline players to cut out very busy routes. Oh, sure, they'll make a big sacrifice and cut out a flight from Kansas City to Reno, but wait for the howls when they are all asked to cut out flights into KDCA.

 

[Elley Mae]

They apparently do, but it hasn’t been recovered yet.

I hope so.

 

[Elley Mae]

Ntsb to hold 4:00 pm presser.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Fewer interactions and hands can also equal a reduction in errors. This concept is overlooked at times. May we learn all we can from this incident to prevent it from happening again.
———
“In this instance, it was actually a good thing, because now you have one controller who’s actually talking to and controlling both of the aircraft,” he said.

“Otherwise, if it was a separate controller, then the two controllers would have to constantly coordinate back and forth about what is happening and what they’re choosing to do.”

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-washington-dc-trump-01-31-25/index.html

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7466051357439446315

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This might be an insane (and unintelligent) question, but I wonder if the speed of the plane creates some sort of "pull" towards it when a smaller aircraft (helicopter) gets close enough. I have been on an interstate in a smaller car and felt a "pull" when a tractor trailer flies by me. Does anyone with greater aviation or physics experience think this is plausible? Not offended in anyway if this theory is debunked, just trying to understand why it appears from some videos that the helicopter flies into the plane.

I think what you’re feeling on the highway is akin to race cars drafting off each other.
They try to get tight behind another car to benefit from a lower air pressure and wind resistance from the car in front of them. You’re probably feeling that momentary disturbance as the truck passes you.
Others will know better than me, but I would think air disturbances with aircraft would be similar. Saying that though, I’ve never heard of drafting “pulling” anything toward something.
I think the helicopter appears to fly into the plane on video, simply because it is flying into the plane.

 

[steeltowngirl]

American Airlines will retire flight number 5342 the company said, according to ABC News

Helicopter, plane collide: Flight number 5342 retired (live updates)

Officials believe there were no survivors.

www.kiro7.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It is a stunning video, isn’t it? At least from this angle the heli appears to aim for the plane. That said, I know from watching football that viewing angles can matter, so maybe it wasn’t as much of a dip to aim as it looks? IDK. Don’t the helicopters have near impact alert systems? Heck, my cheap car flashes an icon when I leave the driving lane for a second. It makes no sense.

jmo

I heard early after the crash happened that the impact warning gizmos don’t work below a certain altitude. That is because the aircraft would not have sufficient room to divert downward to avoid something at low altitude.
My question was then, well, program it to not shout “descend, descend!” below a certain altitude. It could still shout “pull up, pull up!”.

 

[steeltowngirl]

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7466051357439446315

In this view, it appears the Blackhawk would have passed behind and below the AA jet, but the heli was moving too fast and too high.

jmo

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7465873670074944811

 

[Charlot123]

This might be an insane (and unintelligent) question, but I wonder if the speed of the plane creates some sort of "pull" towards it when a smaller aircraft (helicopter) gets close enough. I have been on an interstate in a smaller car and felt a "pull" when a tractor trailer flies by me. Does anyone with greater aviation or physics experience think this is plausible? Not offended in anyway if this theory is debunked, just trying to understand why it appears from some videos that the helicopter flies into the plane.

Newton’s laws? Between the 2nd and the 3d? But it won’t be felt between masses like a tractor trailer and a car, I think. Why we don’t fall off the earth is an example, though. Or high tides. Maybe the higher speed at which a larger mass travels, the more a “vortex” of air around it will be?

So the maximum takeoff weight for CRJs is

65,000 lb to 75,000 - landing is less but we are talking probably in the range of 60,000 lbs. it was not totally full but the cargo…

BH 600 empty weight 12, 511 lb - plus 3 people and GKW else as payload

I honestly don’t think it would have made a difference but the aerodynamic between a descending plane and a flying helicopter can be interesting.

But honestly, I think they just collided. One is cleared to land and the other one watches a different bright object in the sky. If the helicopter hit the wing where the fuel for the CRJ is kept, even worse, but either way, lethal.

 

[Joe Friday]

Thankfully both aircraft landed in the river after the collision. Can't imagine what would have happened had the aircraft landed on top of buildings.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I heard early after the crash happened that the impact warning gizmos don’t work below a certain altitude. That is because the aircraft would not have sufficient room to divert downward to avoid something at low altitude.
My question was then, well, program it to not shout “descend, descend!” below a certain altitude. It could still shout “pull up, pull up!”.

I’ve definitely heard the “pull up, pull up” from cockpit recorders in previous plane crashes. Not helicopters, planes. Japan 123 crash is an example.

 

[MassGuy]

New: Flight tracking data from the moments before the fatal midair collision on Wednesday night appear to show the Black Hawk helicopter flying 100 feet above the maximum allowed altitude and veering off the prescribed route along the east side of the Potomac River. The helicopter’s turns would have put the Black Hawk closer to Reagan National Airport than the standard route as the American Airlines regional jet was nearing the airport.
@OrenCNN
reporting

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885408346510966988

 

[acutename]

It is a stunning video, isn’t it? At least from this angle the heli appears to aim for the plane. That said, I know from watching football that viewing angles can matter, so maybe it wasn’t as much of a dip to aim as it looks? IDK. Don’t the helicopters have near impact alert systems? Heck, my cheap car flashes an icon when I leave the driving lane for a second. It makes no sense.

jmo

do not know what systems these two air craft had- there are lots of sensor systems in general in modern air craft:

http://hibdz.skydiving.co.uk/757/767_tech/warning_systems/tcas.htm\

If you read that website, the GPS has ground sensory systems too but these aircraft were so close to each other and close to the ground as well.

recent articles say that the heli was to stay about 200ft but it was higher... like 3-400.

Army Helicopter in D.C. Plane Crash Might Have Been Flying Higher Than Approved

The Army Black Hawk also might have been outside of its flight path when it collided with a commercial passenger jet at Reagan National Airport on Wednesday night.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Herat]

Fewer interactions and hands can also equal a reduction in errors. This concept is overlooked at times. May we learn all we can from this incident to prevent it from happening again.
———
“In this instance, it was actually a good thing, because now you have one controller who’s actually talking to and controlling both of the aircraft,” he said.

“Otherwise, if it was a separate controller, then the two controllers would have to constantly coordinate back and forth about what is happening and what they’re choosing to do.”

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-washington-dc-trump-01-31-25/index.html

Yes, please give credit to that ATC

 

[acutename]

I heard early after the crash happened that the impact warning gizmos don’t work below a certain altitude. That is because the aircraft would not have sufficient room to divert downward to avoid something at low altitude.
My question was then, well, program it to not shout “descend, descend!” below a certain altitude. It could still shout “pull up, pull up!”.

I read that too- that below 1000ft the ground sensors are disabled because they would just be going off all the time but that sounds simplistic and I think there are other sensors IMO.

 

[Joe Friday]

This might be an insane (and unintelligent) question, but I wonder if the speed of the plane creates some sort of "pull" towards it when a smaller aircraft (helicopter) gets close enough. I have been on an interstate in a smaller car and felt a "pull" when a tractor trailer flies by me. Does anyone with greater aviation or physics experience think this is plausible? Not offended in anyway if this theory is debunked, just trying to understand why it appears from some videos that the helicopter flies into the plane.

In this situation the turbulence caused by an aircraft wouldn't have been a factor.

Airplanes make what is called "Wake Turbulence" This is air swirling around behind all planes. If a small plane flies into the wake turbulence caused by a larger plane, it can be catastrophic, because it will throw the plane around and can cause the smaller plane to loose lift. In this case the helicopter was never behind the airliner, so wake turbulence was not a factor.

Often times we will be warned by ATC about wake turbulence if a large plane has taken off prior to our departure or has landed ahead of our arrival.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap7_section_4.html

 

[Elley Mae]

Data from FlightRadar24, which tracks and records aircraft data for most flights across the U.S., showed the helicopter's last estimated altitude was about 400 feet when it crashed. The jet's altitude was about 375 to 400 feet, according to data from FlightAware and FlightRadar24.

Experts ask why Black Hawk helicopter may have been flying above allowed altitude before crash

This data point is one of several key mysteries investigators are exploring as they seek to explain what caused the nation's worst air disaster in more than a decade, aviation experts said.

www.cbsnews.com

A near midair collision between an airplane and a helicopter in July 2015 occurred 400 feet off the ground on approach to the same runway being used in Wednesday's crash – Runway 33 — according to a CBS News Data Team review of anonymous reports to NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System.

Two years earlier, in May of 2013, a pilot reported problems with a helicopter while circling to land on Runway 33. That is a shorter runway intended for smaller aircraft, like American Airlines 5342. Pilots who land there told CBS News they want to be at the "floor," or lowest altitude during their approach because they need to hit the beginning of the runway to have maximum distance to stop.

 

[Herat]

New: Flight tracking data from the moments before the fatal midair collision on Wednesday night appear to show the Black Hawk helicopter flying 100 feet above the maximum allowed altitude and veering off the prescribed route along the east side of the Potomac River. The helicopter’s turns would have put the Black Hawk closer to Reagan National Airport than the standard route as the American Airlines regional jet was nearing the airport.
@OrenCNN
reporting

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885408346510966988

That is perplexing.

The air traffic approach flow is going from south to north-northeast for Runway 1 and south to north-northwest for Runway 33.

The natural inclination of a helicopter on Route 4 would be to fly hugging the eastern side of the route and as far east from the east bank of the Potomac River as possible to avoid any intrusion on the Glide Slope. Yet, this says the heliopter deviated to the west, in towards the route of the approaching low-level aircraft.

This also makes no sense if they thought they were making a manuever to avoid the departing plane on Runway 1/19, which was flying to the north, well away from Route 4 helicopter traffic.