DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Mica]

Sorry, excuse my ignorance regarding universities in the US. For some reason I thought all universities were private and it was colleges that were public

Not necessarily. Rutgers University in NJ is a public state university.

 

[Simply Southern]

I find it curious that they have announced two of the blackhawk crew but haven't released the female crew member. I expect that to happen soon, not sure why two are known but she's not. Maybe problems notifying her next of kin? IDK

That maybe, as her family has not spoken out. Moo

 

[acutename]

So the helicopter pilot is female.

No wonder her family doesn't want her name released until they have time to prepare as well as they can for the onslaught of hate that will be directed at her as a so-called DEI hire.

Edited to add source: https://www.npr.org/2025/01/30/nx-s1-5281246/pentagon-jet-military-helicopter-collision

other two airmen were men....is she solely responsible?

 

[justtrish]

What do you mean about 'allowing' people to resign? Resigning and fleeing are two different things. In legitimate and responsible businesses they know the impact mass layoffs or voluntary retirements have when strings are attached. eg. do this now and you'll get a severance package or be prepared to get fired without any financial cushion. Disemboweling businesses is what a hostile takeover does.

Respectfully, you throw that word 'qualified' around as if there are throngs of people in the aviation industry who aren't qualified for the job. It takes 5 years for an ATC to be able to do the job solo. Five years. You know what drives the increase in air traffic? It's customer demand. Do you really think the American public will be okay with a drastic reduction in air travel while hundreds of ATC go through the training for their jobs which takes years. Working in a toxic environment where the threat of losing your job is a terrible way to do business and that more than anything else: increased traffic, over stressed airports that struggle to provide services is a sure fire way to see more and more of these tragic events.

I meant exactly what I said. Allowing people to resign.. giving them this option as it seems that is what is being presented to many in the government right now.

I am not sure what you mean that I am throwing "qualified" around. I stated what I believe to be a fact, we need qualified people who want to be there. If they are qualified, but burnt out, stressed, tired of the job, etc. then does that really help this industry? It is a tough job so being qualified isn't enough. I never said those doing this job are not qualified.

The American public would have to be okay with less flights. I don't think demand should dictate how many flights are allowed, if safety is a concern. That is a problem if there aren't sufficient ATC able to safely handle the load. To me that's like adding more flights without pilots and crew to man the planes. We would not add more flights without pilots so why is it okay to have flight volume exceeding what can safetly be handled by air traffic controllers?

 

[IceIce9]

Post in thread 'PA - Small plane crashes in Northeast Philadelphia'

Jan 31, 2025

Plane crash in Philadelphia neighborhood kills 7; several homes catch fire

Six Mexican citizens aboard a medical jet and one person on the ground were killed after the plane crashed in Philadelphia.

www.cbsnews.com

Emergency crews are responding to an explosion in Northeast Philadelphia after a small plane crashed in the area of Roosevelt Boulevard and Cottman Avenue, Philadephia police confirmed to CBS News Philadelphia.

Two people were aboard the plane, according to police. There are other injuries reported on the ground, police added.

Multiple homes are on fire in the area of Cottman Avenue and Roosevelt Boulevard following the crash, fire officials said

• DS2021

• 
• 
• 

Medical flight with 6 on board. 2 doctors, 2 pilots, a pediatric patient and family member

 

[Seattle1]

My response isn’t a political one. It’s directly aimed at the content in the story you linked and the veracity of their reporting.

It’s hilarious that the NYPost, the bastion of independent journalism (lol) had a much much more recent lawsuit they could have cited and focused on. One directly aimed at this program , class action so much bigger, that happens to go to to trial this year.

But instead they decide to go back to 2015. Hmmmm wonder why.

Doh! I see why.

FLASHBACK: FAA turned away qualified air traffic controllers based solely on race

The disturbing rise in near-miss incidents at America’s airports is no accident.

www.washingtontimes.com

The more recent lawsuit was filed in 2019. Wonder why they wouldn’t want to dig into that one? Sounds like they wanted to leave room for the idea that DEI vanished in 2016. Only to rare its head again in 2020. Right?

But nope! The specific DEI program in question was very much active in 2019 and in 2016, 2017 and 2018. But there’s more. Not only did it not vanish. That administration loved it so much (IMO) that they decided to create and launch another DEI program specifically targeted at people with mental disabilities.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-provides-aviation-careers-people-disabilities

Yes, signed in 2019. A DEI program. We are reading that correctly. Imagine that!

I don’t like it when news sources deliberately leave out pieces of critical information in service of the blame game.

Maybe it’s time we wait for the results of the investigation instead.

^^bbm

Let's be clear, the linked MSM identified the lead plaintiff in the 2015 lawsuit (Andrew Brigida) in it's opening paragraphs. The same referenced the reported shortage of ATC shortage at the Tower-- as it was revealed that staffing levels were “not normal” at the time of this week’s deadly midair collision.

The article quotes Plaintiff Brgida's allegations and his opinion on the crash being blamed on shortage of ATC.

IMO, this was Brigida's story (who now works for the FAA as a Program Manager) specific to his Federal Lawsuit dated 2015, and the authors followed the facts of their subject, and who closed with...

The Post reached out to the FAA regarding the ongoing lawsuit but didn’t hear back immediately.

The aviation agency and US Department of Transport are fighting the suit, which is slated to go to court early next year.

 

[al66pine]

Medical Plane Crash in Philly.

Medical flight with 6 on board. 2 doctors, 2 pilots, a pediatric patient and family member

@IceIce9 Thanks for the update w link.

"The medical plane, a Learjet 55, was going from Philadelphia to Springfield, Missouri, leaving the Northeast Philadelphia Airport when tragedy struck.
... According to a statement from Jet Rescue Air Ambulance, the six people were two doctors, two pilots, a pediatric patient and likely a family member of the patient."

Does the mix of these six ppl on board suggest that the pediatric patient had been treated at a Philly area hosp and was being flown to Springfield, to home or to be admitted to hosp, presumably in SW Missouri area?

Regardless, such a tragedy.


OP's link

Plane crash in Philadelphia neighborhood kills 7; several homes catch fire

Six Mexican citizens aboard a medical jet and one person on the ground were killed after the plane crashed in Philadelphia.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[IceIce9]

Medical Plane Crash in Philly.

@IceIce9 Thanks for the update w link.

"The medical plane, a Learjet 55, was going from Philadelphia to Springfield, Missouri, leaving the Northeast Philadelphia Airport when tragedy struck.
... the six people were two doctors, two pilots, a pediatric patient and likely a family member of the patient."

Does the mix of these six ppl on board suggest that the pediatric patient had been treated at a Philly area hosp and was being flown to Springfield, to home or to be admitted to hosp, presumably in SW Missouri area?

Regardless, such a tragedy.

The patient was a little girl from Mexico. She had received surgery or treatment and was released from the hospital. Her mother was on board.

NBC10 Philadelphia – Local news, breaking news, weather

Find the latest Philadelphia local news on NBC10. NBC Philadelphia brings you weather forecasts, breaking news alerts and more Philly news.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

 

[branmuffin]

I was thinking the same thing: I wonder if they had even a moment to process what was occurring: I I hope not. You know what really bothers me most about this horrible tragedy? They were 30 seconds from landing- preparing -- thinking what they were going to do when they got off the plane, planning, then in one split second they were gone. It is just horrible.

I also wonder if for a brief moment those passengers sitting on the right side of the plane saw that helicopter before it hit them. Hopefully not long enough to process it.

 

[IceIce9]

Todd Sheridan Yeary, a former FAA air traffic controller, said with clearance to takeoff and an aircraft that has a reputation for airworthiness, something likely happened in the moments after its wheels left the ground.

"Something happened rather catastrophically after the aircraft lifted off," he said on NBC News NOW. "We don’t know exactly what it is."

He said the model of the jet is "high performance."

"It is very reliable," Yeary said. "It is very unusual to see what we’ve just witnessed.

Recap: Medical jet carrying girl, others crashes in Northeast Philly, killing at least 7

A small plane crashed in Northeast Philadelphia, causing a massive explosion and multiple homes to catch fire.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

 

[IceIce9]

A pediatric patient who received care for a life-threatening illness in the United States was aboard the Learjet 55 that crashed in Philadelphia, according to Shai Gold, spokesman for Jet Rescue Air Ambulance.

The girl, one of six people on the flight, was returing to Tijuana, Mexico. The others on the plane included her mother, a pilot, a copilot, a doctor and a paramedic, Gold said. Jet Rescue Air Ambulance does not believe anyone on the plane survived the crash.

"All I can say is, the patient was sponsored by a third-partner charity to undergo life-saving treatment in the U.S.," Gold said. "She did her course of care. She was going home.

"She fought quite a lot to survive, and unfortunately, this tragedy on the way home

Recap: Medical jet carrying girl, others crashes in Northeast Philly, killing at least 7

A small plane crashed in Northeast Philadelphia, causing a massive explosion and multiple homes to catch fire.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

 

[vls12345]

good point but they would all or most be strapped in..from what has been reported about sst challenger...they survived when they hit the water etc...there could have been 1 just 1 ...please dont take this as disagreement its more i try hard to justify one action when another of a similar way have different outcomes...

The emergency units who responded searched for survivors immediately. For hours. If anyone had survived initially, they perhaps would have died from drowning or hypothermia due to the cold/windy/icy conditions on the river or other injuries sustained during impact. Sadly, no survivors were found & that was with hundreds of emergency workers on scene trying to find them.

Also, I am pretty sure astronauts have a much better safety belt system on their seats (as well as protective clothing) than a commercial airliner has. Commercial airlines have lap belts for passengers, nothing more. Also consider that with the impact, many items could have become dislodged causing large, heavy, &/or sharp items that may have also been falling through the cabin areas, further causing injuries.

I am sure everyone wishes there had been survivors. Wishes that everyone survived. I'm sure the emergency crews searching the scene were very much hoping to find survivors. I'm sure local hospitals were on standby to receive anyone who may have survived. Why do you think there were/should have been survivors? I don't understand what you mean about "justify one action when another of a similar way have different outcomes". What does that mean?

MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Not necessarily. Rutgers University in NJ is a public state university.

Boston College is private

 

[Charlot123]

The emergency units who responded searched for survivors immediately. For hours. If anyone had survived initially, they perhaps would have died from drowning or hypothermia due to the cold/windy/icy conditions on the river or other injuries sustained during impact. Sadly, no survivors were found & that was with hundreds of emergency workers on scene trying to find them.

Also, I am pretty sure astronauts have a much better safety belt system on their seats (as well as protective clothing) than a commercial airliner has. Commercial airlines have lap belts for passengers, nothing more. Also consider that with the impact, many items could have become dislodged causing large, heavy, &/or sharp items that may have also been falling through the cabin areas, further causing injuries.

I am sure everyone wishes there had been survivors. Wishes that everyone survived. I'm sure the emergency crews searching the scene were very much hoping to find survivors. I'm sure local hospitals were on standby to receive anyone who may have survived. Why do you think there were/should have been survivors? I don't understand what you mean about "justify one action when another of a similar way have different outcomes". What does that mean?

MOO.

I am not sure there was not an explosion to start with. I still feel that the impact was close to the wing.

Then, a certain number died on impact. Meet Kevin said that for the rest, it was like falling from the 30th floor - and plus, Potomac River is wide but only 8 feet deep. Plus, ice. Sadly

https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article299435649.html

 

[branmuffin]

Not necessarily. Rutgers University in NJ is a public state university.

Thanks! I just looked up the public universities. I had no idea that some really excellent public universities like Berkley and U of C Los Angeles are in the top 20 universities in the US.

 

[Charlot123]

So the helicopter pilot is female.

No wonder her family doesn't want her name released until they have time to prepare as well as they can for the onslaught of hate that will be directed at her as a so-called DEI hire.

Edited to add source: https://www.npr.org/2025/01/30/nx-s1-5281246/pentagon-jet-military-helicopter-collision

Honestly, how I'd take it:
I don't care about her gender, ethnicity, religion, self-identification or disabilities.

I would like to know how she performed in aviation school. Mid-range to top, I'd have no questions. Training accident. Bottom 2%, I'd ask why was she even a pilot at Fort Belvoire?

 

[Dotta]

I am not sure there was not an explosion to start with. I still feel that the impact was close to the wing.

Then, a certain number died on impact. Meet Kevin said that for the rest, it was like falling from the 30th floor - and plus, Potomac River is wide but only 8 feet deep. Plus, ice. Sadly

https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article299435649.html

Hitting water from this height is like hitting concrete.

Myth or Fact: Falling Into Water Can Feel Like Hitting Concrete? - Survival World

Falling into water from a great height is a scenario that’s often glamorized in movies and media. From dramatic rooftop escapes to daring cliff dives, water

www.survivalworld.com

 

[Charlot123]

“Where you land on [runways] that are 13,000 feet long, you’ve got plenty of room to play with. But at [Reagan] it’s only 7,000 feet.”

There are two flight paths in the area — one for helicopters and another for airplanes — that converge near the Reagan airport, according to an official flight map.

Air traffic controller audio captured operators warning the military helicopter that it was getting close to American Airlines Flight 5342 and directing it to pass behind the passenger plane, which would have had the right of way for the trickier landing.

“It’s such a challenging airport to land a jet airplane, as your focus is really on your airspeed, your altitude, your rate of descent,” he said, adding that “the last thing you’re looking for is to see if somebody’s crossing in your path.”

Still, he insisted, “it’s totally possible to operate safely at Reagan International — I did it for 50 years, of course.”

1/30/25

How did the DC plane crash happen? Experts tell The Post what may have caused the accident

The Post spoke to several aviation experts about a number of factors that may have contributed to the fatal collision.

nypost.com

ATC is a unionized job. One ATC has to cover for two, and besides civilian aircraft that's paying to the airport, has to babysit the military helicopters who are not performing emergency services, just rraining. Fiest question is, are they paying for it? For non-emergency use of the airport?

Is the ATC reimbursed for covering for the second person, for working overtime, for using two different frequencies to communicate?

I think that this has to be looked into. Adequate reimbursement. And the ATC union has to ask questions now. Good time to do it.

 

[Charlot123]

Hitting water from this height is like hitting concrete.

JMO

Covered with ice...

 

[Sundog]

I was thinking the same thing: I wonder if they had even a moment to process what was occurring: I I hope not. You know what really bothers me most about this horrible tragedy? They were 30 seconds from landing- preparing -- thinking what they were going to do when they got off the plane, planning, then in one split second they were gone. It is just horrible.

I'll never forget the words of an elderly father who was waiting for his daughter's flight to land in South Korea a few weeks ago. The plane was preparing to land and his 40-something daughter texted him just before landing, but as they were about to land a flock of birds flew into the engine and the plane crashed and 179 people lost their lives. A journalist interviewed him at the airport as he waited and learned of the plane's - and his daughter's - fate. His words to the journalist were "she was almost home." I don't think I'll ever forget that image and those words.