DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Joe Friday]

I think the investigation will determine that the CRJ flew into the Blackhawk.

If you watch the video's closely, you will see that the Blackhawk does not run into the side of the CRJ. The Blackhawk passes in front of the CRJ and was hit by the left wing of the CRJ. The CRJ then spirals into the river in a clockwise motion when viewing the plane head on with it's left wing missing. The Blackhawk was mostly intact when it crashed into the river. Had the Blackhawk directly impacted the side of the CRJ, there would have been much more damage to the Blackhawk.

It possible only the rotor section of the Blackhawk impacted the CRJ left wing in order for so little damage to have occured to the Blackhawk.

JMO

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/video/american-airline-plane-crash-washington-exclusive-video-ldn-digvid

 

[LadyL]

There were clearly other people in the control tower. We can hear the conversations of the female ATC who was acting as the Ground Controller that evening. With great calm and efficiency, she was summoning the Metro Emergency people, the DCA Airport Fire Department, and other emergency personnel, specifying as best as she could tell where the crash site was, freezing planes on the ground, telling a Southwest Airlines plane to stop and not to taxi onto the runway.

For example, she was summoning the emergency personnel to the east side of the Potomac River, just abeam the Joint Base Anacostia-Bollling facilities. Important, because it was critical for the emergency responders to be on the correct side of the Potomac. The DCA Fire Department was directed to the west side of the Potomac, just at the east end of Runway 33. It took a lot of composure and excellent training to be the one leading the organization of the responders and keeping the planes and passengers on the taxiways and at the gates safe.

(Edited for a small typo.)

yeah I think I heard other voices in the background but they weren't clear to me and I sort of thought they were somewhere else, like another tower or office or something - I still have to listen again

 

[PrairieWind]

Here is a diagram to help you better understand the direction in which the CRJ was at relative to the location and direction of travel of the Blackhawk at the time when ATC contact the PAT25 crew to tell them about the CRJ making a landing on RWY 33.

As you can see, the Blackhawk is on a heading of aprox. 90 degrees. The CRJ is directly south of their location, making it necessary for the PAT25 crew to look out of the right window in order to see the CRJ, placing the CRJ at their 3:00 O'clock. The Blackhawk was following the river, which turns to the East and then back to the South. The Blackhawk later turned to a heading more towards the South as they followed the river (heading 180) making the CRJ then at their 12:00 O'clock moments before impact.

View attachment 563101

Are you saying that the jet hits the helicopter from the right side? That is clearly not what happened. The photo screen shot you post is a minute before collision. The helo turns sound the jet turns left and their relative positions change entirely. The jet approaches the helo from the helo's left.

 

[Deleted member 352484]

I think the investigation will determine that the CRJ flew into the Blackhawk.

Authorities verified the CRJ saw the Blackhawk at the last second and took a corrective action. The video slowed down appears to show the nose slightly up and the plane banking to the left allowing the Blackhawk to slide underneath and clip the plane's left wing. The right wing of the plane appears intact as plane tumbles down

 

[PrairieWind]

Authorities verified the CRJ saw the Blackhawk at the last second and took a corrective action. The video slowed down appears to show the nose slightly up and the plane banking to the left allowing the Blackhawk to slide underneath and clip the plane's left wing. The right wing of the plane appears intact as plane tumbles down

I agree, it looks as if at the last moment the jet begins to react. The helo does not. I do think the collision was to the helo rotor and not fuselage to fuselage. that explains why the helo body remained in tact as it fell to the river. The river impact is probably what killed them.

 

[Joe Friday]

Are you saying that the jet hits the helicopter from the right side? That is clearly not what happened. The photo screen shot you post is a minute before collision. The helo turns sound the jet turns left and their relative positions change entirely. The jet approaches the helo from the helo's left.

In that post I was not talking about where each plane hit each other. I was talking about where each aircraft was and their direction of flight at that time. This was long before the crash, this was when the controller told the Blackhawk that a plane was going to be landing on RWY 33 and the two aircraft were approximately 6 miles apart.

At this time the CRJ was at the Blackhawks 3:00 O'clock.

 

[Herat]

DBM

I had heard the full video of before and after the crash that was posted on a Youtube by Captain Steeeve. However, I cannot find it on his site on Youtube. Perhaps he was asked to remove it.

 

[SouthAussie]

DBM

I had heard the full video of before and after the crash that was posted on a Youtube by Captain Steeeve. However, I cannot find it on his site on Youtube. Perhaps he was asked to remove it.

I couldn't find it either, when you referenced it a day or two ago. All I could find was his analysis of the flights, which didn't include the small part that I had wondered about .. as per the AP article that I had linked. I think it has been taken down.

 

[Deleted member 352484]

Senate Commerce Committee chair Ted Cruz told reporters the Black Hawk helicopter had turned off its automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B), which is permitted for military aircraft.

"This was a training mission, so there was no compelling national security reason for ADS-B to be turned off," Cruz said after a briefing from the National Transportation Safety Board.

ADS-B is an advanced surveillance technology to track aircraft location. Cruz noted the helicopter had a transponder so it would appear on radar but ADS-B is significantly more accurate.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/key-safety-system-off-army-helicopter-that-collided-with-american-airlines-jet-2025-02-06/

 

[SouthAussie]

Authorities verified the CRJ saw the Blackhawk at the last second and took a corrective action.

Just to add ..... I saw in this NY Times article that as the plane descended below 500 feet, the pilots received an automated message from their system "traffic, traffic".
And the helicopter was instructed by ATC to go behind.
About 16 seconds later, the pilots could be heard verbally reacting to something and the plane nose began to pull up. Then crashing sounds could be heard.

Airline Pilots in the DC Plane Crash Acted as Expected, Experts Say

The pilots of the American Airlines regional jet in the Washington airport collision acted as expected, aviation safety experts and other pilots said.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Chimera]

Black Hawk's tracking tech was turned off when it crashed into plane

The Black Hawk was performing a routine training mission in an effort to renew 28-year-old Captain Rebecca M. Lobach's annual certification when it crashed into American Airlines Flight 5342 as it was making its final descent at Reagan National Airport just before 9pm on January 29.

In this instance, this was a training mission, so there was no compelling national security reason for ADS-B to be turned off,' he told the Times following a closed-door briefing on the investigation into the crash with the Federal Aviation Administration and National Transportation Safety Board.

Days earlier, authorities confirmed that the Black Hawk helicopter was, in fact, flying 100 feet above the limit for helicopters in the commercial airspace.

It was flying at 300 feet, but the maximum altitude permitted for choppers in the area is 200 feet.Black box data recovered from the wreckage in the Potomac River had indicated that this situation likely occurred, but the National Transport Safety Board was waiting on the air traffic control data to confirm the high altitude.

Rbm.
Bbm.
From the photos at the link, it looks as if the helicopter slammed directly into the CRJ plane's side ?
Re. the blue bolded : Am wondering how long it will take to 'read' the data from the chopper; it could be weeks or months perhaps ?
In addition, shouldn't they have the ATC data by now ?
Omo.

 

[Dotta]

"Black Hawk's tracking tech was turned off
when it crashed into plane
as mangled wreck is pulled from Potomac.

Vital tracking technology inside an Army Black Hawk helicopter
was turned off for 'no compelling reason'
when it collided with a passenger plane over Washington DC last week.

When the chopper went down,
the Black Hawk's Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast was disabled -
a system which shares an aircraft's position, altitude and speed.

The technology also includes
a display that shows pilots the location of other aircrafts
both in the sky or on a runway,
and allows air traffic controllers to not just rely on radar tracking -
which could have a delay of a few seconds."

Black Hawk's tracking tech was turned off when it crashed into plane

The Black Hawk was performing a training mission in an effort to renew 28-year-old Captain Rebecca M. Lobach's annual certification when it crashed into American Airlines Flight 5342.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Seattle1]

DBM

I had heard the full video of before and after the crash that was posted on a Youtube by Captain Steeeve. However, I cannot find it on his site on Youtube. Perhaps he was asked to remove it.

This is the 5 min version by Captain Steeve-- I don't recall if it was longer than this:

Captain Steeve speaks about the collision Black Hawk helicopter and AA plane​

 

[ChatteringBirds]

To the families of all of the victims it must feel like each new piece of information is worse than the last.

I don't understand why there weren't better procedures in place to help prevent something like this.

 

[Seattle1]

DC plane crash investigators unlock major piece of mystery

The National Transportation Safety Board made a major revelation about the crew onboard a Black Hawk helicopter that collided into a passenger plane.

www.dailymail.co.uk

2/7/25

The crew of an Army Black Hawk helicopter that collided with a passenger airplane were likely wearing night vision goggles at the time it went down, according to investigators.

The Black Hawk was performing a routine training mission in an effort to renew 28-year-old Captain Rebecca M. Lobach's annual certification when it crashed into American Airlines Flight 5342 while making its final descent at Reagan National Airport just before 9pm on January 29, killing 67 people.

 

[SouthAussie]

Plane Carrying 10 People On Board Missing in Alaska, Authorities Confirm

Just thought I would mention this here, as it will likely be over and done with very soon.
It is not going to be a good outcome, as the plane disappeared while waiting in a holding pattern for a runway to be cleared.
It certainly is not a good time period for aircraft incidents. I think that is now 3 of them in just a little over a week.

 

[SouthAussie]

When D.C. firefighter Sean Wathen responded to the tragic midair collision over the Potomac River, he never expected to stand guard over a fallen hero. But as a former Marine, he recognized the flight suit of Staff Sgt. Ryan O’Hara and refused to leave his side for nearly four hours.

O’Hara, the crew chief of the Black Hawk helicopter that collided with an American Airlines flight near Reagan National Airport, was one of the first victims recovered ..... Wathen ensured his dignity was preserved until a military official arrived.

A memorial service at Fort Belvoir will honor O’Hara and the two other crew members lost in the crash, with firefighters, including Wathen, invited to attend.

Honoring a Fallen Soldier After Potomac Crash

 

[Deleted member 352484]

This is the 5 min version by Captain Steeve-- I don't recall if it was longer than this:

The Officer Tatum channel has a longer version of the video posted 6 days ago. He says the entire video is around 20 minutes but does not replay the entire 20 minutes himself.

 

[Elley Mae]

“We’re going to hopefully find this out, but if they had night vision goggles on a mission like that at nine o’clock at night and not at 1 a.m. – it is unacceptable,” Duffy said on Wednesday.

Black Hawk helicopter had important safety system turned off during collision with American Airlines jet, senator says

The collision was the deadliest US air disaster in more than 20 years.

nypost.com

 

[ChatteringBirds]

IDK, I'm skeptical that was or is actually considered "unacceptable," because if so, why would they all have done it? They were trained professionals...
JMO.