Debate Thread for Caylee is alive

[liltigress]

Lol. I admit my heart doesn't want to think of Caylee as dead, but where do you see evidence that I am not using my mind? Have I lost it somewhere? Do I seem uneducated to you? Obtuse? And I can assure you that I am neither inexperienced or naive. I am far, far from the latter.

Respectfully, you have made some rather rude assumptions about people who disagree with you.

No no no, I'm not making assumptions at all. Please don't take it that way.

It's just a standard fact of heart vs. mind. I'm only meaning that I found it hard to take my heart out of the convolutions to look at the big picture.

Trust me, I was in the mindset where I was looking for any logical reason that Caylee would still be alive. It's something I had to personally look at with the rose colored glasses off.

No offense toward you or anyone.

 

[doonerinohio]

apparently this is not a debating thread but a bashing thread for those that attempt to debate. I am upset and I respectfully withdraw my debate.

Do I believe that Caylee is alive? Nope...not in my heart or my head...Do I attempt to see things through open eyes and not tunnel vision...Oh heck yeah...Have a wonderful day!

 

[Seranade]

1- The family was never "forced" to call TES. Many who were directly involved can verify this.

2- TES called off the search because of the conditions. TM specifically said he was afraid they may push the body further into the mud. TM also said he will be back after the water conditions improve. Cindy, did in fact, try to detour this search and start her bashing of TM.

3- Casey is missing. Not objecting to that. Right now, LE has to handle things the way they are to stop all discoveries from JB. He's a defense atty and is entitled to those discoveries if it is stated to be a murder investigation, no? I could be wrong, but I think LE is going by the book on this and taking their time. They want a body, not lies.

1-More than one person here at WS has made the statement that due to efforts of several boards pressure was brought to bear on the family to call TES.

2-The conditions were the same when they started the search as when they called it off.

3-They can state that it is a Homicide investigation but as long as they don't charge her she is not entitled to discovery.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

TES has to be called BY A FAMILY MEMBER OF THE VICTIM!!!!!! LE couldn't call TES

While it is preferred a family member call them in, it isn't always the case. LE can request them and did after the A family ripped on Tim.

 

[DeltaDawn]

I agree! Carefully read this statement:

"The information we've gotten back from the lab that she was in the trunk of that car and that she is dead is certainly something we take seriously," said Orange County Sheriff's Office Sgt. John Allen.

Does this sound to anyone else almost like he is saying they are taking the "information" ie "media reports" that they have lab results showing Caylee dead, seriously?

Bolding and red are my insertion..I hope you don't mind.

No it doesn'tsay that. Sgt Allen is clearly stating that the information came to the OCSO from the lab..not from the media..he is very clear on that.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Come on, Guys! Here we are again given the chance to debate and I don't want to blow this!!! I want to know what they have found and their theories. I have tried hard to ask questions and get answers without bashing people. This thread is important to those of us that want answers from all sides. I want to make sure in my own mind that everything is covered.

 

[liltigress]

1-More than one person here at WS has made the statement that due to efforts of several boards pressure was brought to bear on the family to call TES.

2-The conditions were the same when they started the search as when they called it off.

3-They can state that it is a Homicide investigation but as long as they don't charge her she is not entitled to discovery.

I agree, the conditions were the same. I am still confused on that, but I personally think TM was feeling beat down by Cindy. That's totally my own opinion. He is a great man with a heart of gold.

As far as Cindy contacting TES, there was no pressure. I recall the conversation when TP contacted her about it and put her in touch with TES. I believe she did this without hesitation and possibly didn't know about them until she was notified that day.

Hard to say, most is just my opinion.

 

[liltigress]

Come on, Guys! Here we are again given the chance to debate and I don't want to blow this!!! I want to know what they have found and their theories. I have tried hard to ask questions and get answers without bashing people. This thread is important to those of us that want answers from all sides. I want to make sure in my own mind that everything is covered.

I know right? This is touch and go and I find myself trying to carefully word my posts.

I would love to find that hope again that Caylee is alive somewhere but the facts put out so far just doesn't point that way for me.

 

[Betty Boop]

A question posed for the purpose of debate:

Does believing Caylee is alive mean believing Casey's statements are true?

For me, that would mean reviewing all of Casey's statements, many of which we have read or heard. Do her statements ring true? Is there contradiction within her statements?

Just food for thought.

I hope this thread doesn't get closed. Debate is a healthy form of discussion. However, I realize that some people can't debate, they are just not hard-wired to do so.

 

[eg@gm]

I just feel that with all of the support Casey had from friends and family, she didn't have any reason to get rid of her daughter. She had many other boyfriends. Why would she feel she needed to get rid of her for TonE? He doesn't seem any more special than some of her other boyfriends. Why now? And I just can't imagine that she wouldn't be upset or sad, or even ACT upset or sad. I know she can act. Apparently she seems to think her daughter is okay.

This case is just something else - the fact that she went on pretending like Caylee was just with the nanny... did she not think that people would one day want to see Caylee again? That they'd just dismiss her absence forever?

 

[kwmred]

I really believe this debate has come down to heart vs. mind.

I see how many just can't believe Caylee is deceased and look very hard to hold on to that hope.

Whereas there are the others who can logically look at the evidence with experience, using their mind and go from there.

I think that is a correct assessment.

 

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

When I was watching NG last night, my 15 year old son came downstairs and asked why I keep watching NG when I know that Caylee is dead. I told him that I am baffled/in awe/stunned/etc. by the actions of this mother whose child is missing.

He then asked my why I was so stunned…….he said it was obvious that the mother had killed her child. I asked him how could he know that? He said…..

“Want to know how much you love me mom?…..you would either die for me or kill for me if anyone tried to hurt me, she didn’t (meaning Casey)….the end.”

Just wanted to share the thoughts of a 15 year old who see this as cut and dry. Caylee is dead and her mother killed her.

I agree with every word my :blowkiss:son said 100%!

 

[Seranade]

No no no, I'm not making assumptions at all. Please don't take it that way.

It's just a standard fact of heart vs. mind. I'm only meaning that I found it hard to take my heart out of the convolutions to look at the big picture.

Trust me, I was in the mindset where I was looking for any logical reason that Caylee would still be alive. It's something I had to personally look at with the rose colored glasses off.

No offense toward you or anyone.

I understand.

See, I went in the total opposite direction from most people. I was at first convinced that Caylee was dead and that Casey did it. With the caveat that I am a well known contrarian who almost never follows the majority opinion, I slowly found more and more reasons to doubt that scenario and it wasn't something I went looking for. I have no illusions and I know that mother's kill their children every day. It is just that for me, there is enough reasonable doubt to give me hope.

 

[catherineb]

Come on, Guys! Here we are again given the chance to debate and I don't want to blow this!!! I want to know what they have found and their theories. I have tried hard to ask questions and get answers without bashing people. This thread is important to those of us that want answers from all sides. I want to make sure in my own mind that everything is covered.

I agree! No one make this an attack on any poster....don't start with "do you have children?"......ok? promise!

 

[ski3166]

I read on this site that they think the cops are lying about the information they have to flush out information. I will guarantee you they would never say that they had evidence that this little girl was dead if they didn't know it to be true.

 

[Seranade]

A question posed for the purpose of debate:

Does believing Caylee is alive mean believing Casey's statements are true?

For me, that would mean reviewing all of Casey's statements, many of which we have read or heard. Do her statements ring true? Is there contradiction within her statements?

Just food for thought.

I hope this thread doesn't get closed. Debate is a healthy form of discussion. However, I realize that some people can't debate, they are just not hard-wired to do so.

I believe Casey is a liar and has lied many times during this case. I do, however, believe some of her statements must be true but there is no way to know which until we see all of the evidence.

I just feel that with all of the support Casey had from friends and family, she didn't have any reason to get rid of her daughter. She had many other boyfriends. Why would she feel she needed to get rid of her for TonE? He doesn't seem any more special than some of her other boyfriends. Why now? And I just can't imagine that she wouldn't be upset or sad, or even ACT upset or sad. I know she can act. Apparently she seems to think her daughter is okay.

This case is just something else - the fact that she went on pretending like Caylee was just with the nanny... did she not think that people would one day want to see Caylee again? That they'd just dismiss her absence forever?

I agree. IF Casey killed her child, boyfriend, revenge on Cindy, partying, etc make no sense as motives. It could have been an accident, or some other motive entirely that we have no way of knowing about at this time.

 

[Hailiejade77]

Do you have children? I am not trying to demean your post. But MOST parents no matter what the circumstances would contact LE as soon as their child was taken. NO MATTER WHAT!
Lets just go with that Casey doesn't trust LE and she didn't want to go to them with this. WHY would she not tell friends or family members so they could help find Caylee? Hire a Private Investigator? When your child goes missing you DON'T act normal, party and cook dinner for you boyfriend,....YOU USE ALL YOUR RESOURCES TO FIND YOUR CHILD!!!!!!!
Thats what a REAL PARENT would do, unless they are the reason the child is no longer.
I am not directing this post to you, per say, I am just saying what I think,.. a mother of two year old. JMO

Wow...I do feel disrespected and yes I do have children. And I love them unconditionally and would do anything to find them if something happened to them. Your reply implies that perhaps I wouldn't. I am not CA and I do not condone how she has acted during any of this. This thread was supposed to be about debate and I just threw a theory out there to debate. I did not intend to get yelled at for a supposed theory. I simply threw something out there and waited for someone to shoot holes in the theory. I was debating. Isn't that what we were supposed to be doing? I horribly take offense at you implying that I would not search everywhere for my children.

I am sorry you feel disrespected by my post! That wasn't my intention. :blowkiss: I wasn't implying that you wouldn't search for your child if he/she was missing! I am simply saying NORMAL PARENTS like you and I would search to the end of the earth for our child regardless of the circumstances in their disappearance. The simply fact that Casey didn't sends up a RED FLAG that she has something to do with it.
I truly am sorry that you feel offended. I didn't want to hurt your feelings. I am so sorry. Please forgive me.

 

[liltigress]

I understand.

See, I went in the total opposite direction from most people. I was at first convinced that Caylee was dead and that Casey did it. With the caveat that I am a well known contrarian who almost never follows the majority opinion, I slowly found more and more reasons to doubt that scenario and it wasn't something I went looking for. I have no illusions and I know that mother's kill their children every day. It is just that for me, there is enough reasonable doubt to give me hope.

Right, exactly. THAT's what I'm talking about... the hope. I don't mean that anyone is stupid or mindless.

I see the hope many people have and I don't blame anyone for that one bit. For me, the hope faded as more facts came about and time elapsed without Caylee.

I threw my thoughts and opinions out there so others can find holes in them. That helped me more than anything to stick with facts instead of leaning on hope. Though, I would drop to both knees in a puddle if this baby is found alive. Nothing would make me more happy.

It's difficult to believe Caylee is alive with Casey's actions. She is so careful not to break. She never went to her family about this story. The first thing after contacting LE that most mothers will do is beg for help. She concealed everything.

 

[treeseeker]

A question posed for the purpose of debate:

Does believing Caylee is alive mean believing Casey's statements are true?

For me, that would mean reviewing all of Casey's statements, many of which we have read or heard. Do her statements ring true? Is there contradiction within her statements?

Just food for thought.

I hope this thread doesn't get closed. Debate is a healthy form of discussion. However, I realize that some people can't debate, they are just not hard-wired to do so.

Casey's statements are ridiculous beyond belief, and to me they were worse on the interview tapes than in print. Too ridiculous. When I head the tapes, it seemed to me she is someone who could be manipulated. It's something I hadn't really considered before.

 

[kwmred]

I agree! No one make this an attack on any poster....don't start with "do you have children?"......ok? promise!

I'm sorry. I should have snipped that post that I quoted. I do not agree with the beginning of it. From what I've read it appears that most who believe that Caylee is still alive are mothers or grandparents of young children. Pretty hard to look at your own and imagine something so horrible.