Debate Thread for Caylee is alive

[faefrost]

murder weapon - not body

A murder weapon would not have generated the smell that at least 4 independent human observers noted. It would take an actual body being in there for a stretch of time. The dogs would hit ona murder weapon, but human noses wouldn't. The same for brief contact.

There was a body in that trunk. It was in there long enough to stew for awile. i'm betting several days.

 

[Brini]

Maybe it's not a matter of them stepping forward, but a matter of Casey holding her back? As I theorized in the second link I gave you, if Casey is involved in another, different murder, and LE is using the label "child killer" in order to force her to talk about what she knows, Casey can sit back under all that pressure and avoid answering as long as Caylee is missing.

Also, perhaps, perhaps...? LE is taking this tack in order to lull the others into a false sense of security, to assure them that Casey is NOT cooperating.

As the nurses say, "When you hear hoofbeats, look for horses, not zebras." Respectfully.. perhaps the thought that KC is involved in TWO murders sounds liek zebras.

 

[Seranade]

But...you would still tell your parents who are sick with worry. You would tell someone. You would not come up with a huge, web of lies.

Jose Baez is preparing for a murder defense. Doesn't want anymore DNA testing allowed. JMO

Maybe she has told her parents? "The person who was in the trunk of my daughters car is not my granddaughter!!!"

Baez hasn't stopped the testing nor could he. He filed a motion to 'preserve' the evidence, ie he wants to make sure there is enough material after the State's testing so that he can have his own experts do testing.

 

[Brini]

Of all of the "Alive believers" theories I have to say this one is the most well thought out. However, I would have to ignore the behavior of Casey and the decomposing hair and the not reporting the missing/stolen child ever. I keep wondering how long Casey would have played this "she's with the nanny" story. Casey did not want to report this, it was Cindy who called the police.

She would have played it out for as long as it worked. I think she was hoping that people would quickly forget Caylee.

Sociopaths do not (really) mourn, and quickly forget people. Why would she think that normal people are any different?

It's like when she abandoned the car, and it was towed. She prolly thought (or hoped) people would just forget.

 

[shannon718]

Just putting some thoughts together:

Daughter missing...
Shovel borrowed
Dirt in car
Hair in car
Stain in car
Dead body odor in car
Cadaver dog hit in backyard (2 separate dogs?)
Cadaver dog hit in car (2 separate dogs?)
Chloraform odor in car
Chloraform searched on computer
Claims of a nanny no one in family or friends EVER met or spoke to
Doesn't really have a job
Therefore doesn't need a nanny
Steals
Emotionless
Lies
Daughter missing....

Exactly is all I have to say to this post. Exactly!

 

[kwmred]

She would have played it out for as long as it worked. I think she was hoping that people would quickly forget Caylee.

Sociopaths do not (really) mourn, and quickly forget people. Why would she think that normal people are any different?

It's like when she abandoned the car, and it was towed. She prolly thought (or hoped) people would just forget.

I think she abandoned it hoping that it would be stolen. It would have made her story so much more plausible.

 

[IrishSweetOne]

#3 She is to scared to talk for fear someone will harm Caylee

I don't understand this statement and this is why .

When will she talk or will she just leave Caylee with whom ever indefinitely ? How will she ever get Caylee back if she never talks ?

How does she know Caylee hasn't already been harmed ??

 

[liltigress]

Maybe she has told her parents? "The person who was in the trunk of my daughters car is not my granddaughter!!!"

Baez hasn't stopped the testing nor could he. He filed a motion to 'preserve' the evidence, ie he wants to make sure there is enough material after the State's testing so that he can have his own experts do testing.

LE, please help me. My grand daughter is missing and there was another body in the trunk of the car. My daughter told me what happened. We have to find Caylee.. Please... please... help.

...

I don't see this type of plea or emotion. I see.. Operation Save Casey.

 

[Brini]

That goes double for me too

I WISH I could give you hope that Caylee is alive. But, there's too much evidence that it isn't so.

Peripherally: The Anthony seem to be proud of some Irish heritage. KCs handle was "caseyomarie." KC has a shamrock tattoo. "Caylee" is a Gaelic name meaning "slender" (the spelling is Gaelic has about ten letters). "Casey" means "vigilant," in Irish Gaelic.

 

[Amster]

KC didn't have a job. No need for a "nanny". Or a babysitter. All made up.

 

[shannon718]

Here is the link to LE enforcement saying that Caylee is dead. It should not be ignored as LE would never come out and say such a thing if it werent true. In addition, they will charge her when they are good and ready and have all of their ducks in a row and not a moment before. They would never risk giving JB discovery too early and or rush to judgement/double jep for Casey.

Caylee was dead in Casey's trunk. That is the bottom line.....imho

"The information we've gotten back from the lab that she was in the trunk of that car and that she is dead is certainly something we take seriously," said Orange County Sheriff's Office Sgt. John Allen.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html
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[krimekat]

A murder weapon would not have generated the smell that at least 4 independent human observers noted. It would take an actual body being in there for a stretch of time. The dogs would hit ona murder weapon, but human noses wouldn't. The same for brief contact.

There was a body in that trunk. It was in there long enough to stew for awile. i'm betting several days.

Thanks!! This "safe family" who are friends with the jogger's murderer, who are they? I mean, murderer's friends and a 3-year old, that doesn't sit right with me . . . taking care of a 3-year old for 60+ days--that is a lot of work & $$$.

 

[FootballMom]

Also, perhaps, perhaps...? LE is taking this tack in order to lull the others into a false sense of security, to assure them that Casey is NOT cooperating.

I've thought about this too. It appears pretty obvious from the recordings alone that KC is not cooperating. But maybe she is now and because of the severity of the situation LE wants her to appear combative in order to protect others (good or bad) or buy time for someone, somewhere to slip up.

I'm compiling a list of pros & cons, verbatim LE statements and facts as well as alternative suggestions... I hope to have it up soon, just have to decide which thread it belongs with; debate, alive, theories, etc....

 

[LizzyJane]

Maybe she has told her parents? "The person who was in the trunk of my daughters car is not my granddaughter!!!"


Denial, denial, denial.

Casey was out partying, playing good girlfriend, stealing money from a good friend, hanging out on myspace, getting a tatoo, while either protecting or searching for her child??

"diary of days" "What is given can be taken away. Everyone lies. Everyone dies. Life will never be easy..."

-Casey Anthony myspace page July 7th

:waitasec:

 

[Advocate4]

The merits of the "Caylee is alive" belief/theory has been consistently (and seemingly reasonably) countered by pointing out that the cadaver dogs alerted on the car, areas of the Anthonys' backyard, etc. I got curious and did some internet digging to find out more about decomposing human remains, the reliability of cadaver dogs and so on. And I found some interesting things:

1. "The scent, associated with that of deceased individuals, such as dried blood, is generally regarded as human-specific, but its exact chemical composition is still largely unknown. Several odor analyses of putrefying bodies have been performed, but the specifc odor associated with recently deceased or "fresh" bodies have not been sufficiently investigated. Cadaver dogs do not only signal upon finding putrefed human tissue or old remnants of blood, they further signal when detecting a recently deceased body. Generally, cadaver dogs do not give specific signals when recognizing the scent of living individuals. Artifcial scents containing putrescine and cadaverine are commercially available; but these substances have not been established as the single most relevant odor in the scent of deceased human tissue. These substances are also present in all decaying organic materials as well as organic materials of living individuals, e.g. their saliva. So the true "perfume of death" is discernable and its composition important for the successful search of cadaver dogs. However its components remain a mystery and largely unidentified. There have been few studies performed that focus on the reliability of cadaver dogs with varying skills and training. Most searches are performed on contaminated items stemming from a longer post mortem interval."
http://www.pawsoflife.org/pdf/Library%20articles/carpet%20squares.pdf

2. "A human cadaver dog's detection skills depend greatly on its training, and the problem is that human remains are hard to come by. Trainers often use a combination of available "pseudoscents", and pigs. The problem with pseudoscents, says Mick Swindells, a retired police handler who works as a freelance trainer and handler in Blackpool, is that they represent a "snapshot" of death. As decomposition proceeds, the chemistry of the corpse evolves, causing its odour to change. "I'm trying to train a dog to find the whole video, not just a snapshot," he says. Pigs decompose in similarly to humans, and when buried they disturb the ground in a similar way."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

3. "Because it is not known explicitly what the chemical compounds of death are, no one is quite sure what the dogs are actually smelling. Putrescine and cadaverine are two components of the smell of death, but that is not all. Therefore, the cadaver dogs’ expertise cannot be replaced by instrumental analysis or chemical laboratory techniques at this point in time."
http://ksgarvin.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/garvin.ppt

Also, I found on another sleuthing website a discussion of cadaver dogs and what they alert on with regard to the missing Madelein McCann case, and some of the contributors to that discussion appear to be very knowledgeable about forensic science as they apparently work in that or related fields. There was quite a bit of very interesting information related to or further to the info/links above posted. For example "Cadaverine and putrescine can be produced by materials other than a human body. An animal body for example. And decaying fish. And some plant matter. So its not forensic evidence of anything other than the presence of those chemicals."

That discussion can be found here:
http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19116

 

[tiffertots]

I think she abandoned it hoping that it would be stolen. It would have made her story so much more plausible.

If the car was out of gas...which I think it was...it would just about knock out the whole (hope it gets stolen) theory...not many car thieves carry around gas cans. KC's purse was found in the car as well, but there has been no statement as to what was in the purse...I've switched purses in my car numerous times and took the one with all my stuff in it and left the other behind empty...I think the car was abandoned intentially, who puts a bag of trash in their trunk, and leaves it in there, ecpecially when the car is parked next to a dumpster! makes no sense to me! It leads me to believe that she didn't quite care what happened to the car, she never went back to fill it up and use it, she wanted nothing to do with it after that day!

 

[edgeofnight]

I don't understand this statement and this is why .

When will she talk or will she just leave Caylee with whom ever indefinitely ? How will she ever get Caylee back if she never talks ?

How does she know Caylee hasn't already been harmed ??

Exactly.

 

[Evan's Mom]

But would you ever have thought that Shawn Hornbeck could have been hidden for four years?
I'm not comparing the cases, but that is pretty unbelievable too.

Ok, but there has been no one else that has come forward and said they have information.

I don't think a transaction such as this could be kept so hidden, be it handing off, adoption or murderers of this other body. I just believe if that was the case, someone else knows something.

If it were someone holding her for Casey.. a neighbor or someone would have seen her. Somebody would have come forward. This case is so highly publicized now. Everyone has a friend or enemy. Someone would have stepped forward.

 

[tiffertots]

So, maybe she didn't want to be seen in that car. Maybe someone would be looking for her driving that car. If it was simply out of gas she could have just put more gas in it and go. I'm sure TonE would have lent her 10 bucks for gas!

 

[FootballMom]

Here is the link to LE enforcement saying that Caylee is dead. It should not be ignored as LE would never come out and say such a thing if it werent true. In addition, they will charge her when they are good and ready and have all of their ducks in a row and not a moment before. They would never risk giving JB discovery too early and or rush to judgement/double jep for Casey.

Caylee was dead in Casey's trunk. That is the bottom line.....imho

"The information we've gotten back from the lab that she was in the trunk of that car and that she is dead is certainly something we take seriously," said Orange County Sheriff's Office Sgt. John Allen.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html
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respectfully.... that statement does not say she is dead.... only that it would be something that they'd take seriously.