Debate Thread for Caylee is alive

[Kooba]

It is not even a proven fact that Casey ever had a miscarriage at all, only that at a party she made a dramatic scene when she saw a particular "ex" and SAID that she did, sometime in the past, and that it was "his." It is no more than the grossest speculation to go from that to saying that she not only had a miscarriage, but decided to keep it and place it in her car trunk, or had on particular clothes when the event occurred, never washed them, and saved them to later put in her trunk to decompose or leave DNA, or maybe crawled into the trunk sometime after Caylee was "taken" and had the experience, etc.[/QUOTE

First time poster...
I really don't know how any of what her friends are saying is the total truth. Everything that is said cannot be taken as gospel. The fact that KC may or may not have had a miscarriage is for KC to know and the father and no one else. I also have had a miscarriage but would not want the entire world to know. As far as DNA, my children shed and there is hair everywhere. It's not uncommon to find a strand of hair in the trunk.

 

[amethyst221]

But most trunks don't smell like decomposing bodies to go along with the random strand of hair

 

[kwmred]

And it was said that it was around or ON July 2nd at that party she was at.

No, it really wasn't said anywhere in the documents that she had a miscarriage "around or ON July 2nd". Please be kind enough to at least read the official documentation before spreading rumors.

 

[Katie526]

No, it really wasn't said anywhere in the documents that she had a miscarriage "around or ON July 2nd". Please be kind enough to at least read the official documentation before spreading rumors.

First of all, Im not spreading rumors. Let's not even get into that! There's been much of that around here. I briefed through Exit 13's answers and took it from there. Geez

 

[gitana1]

But most trunks don't smell like decomposing bodies to go along with the random strand of hair

Yes, and most trunks don't smell so powerfully like a dead body that the smell washes over you "like a wave" as LA stated, or is so "atrocious" (also his words) that you can't stand next to the car for more than a minute. Add that to the random hair and then add this: 1) "Mom" doesn't report her child missing for 31 days or ever, 2) Same mom borrows a shovel on a day she is backing into the garage, something she never does, 3) Someone researches chloroform on the computer mom uses, 4) chloroform traces ar found in the trunk (oh, by the way, if you want to put a kid to sleep, over the counter Benadryl works just fine and does not necessitate research, chemistry or the use of an illegal substance. I take it every night to sleep), 5) No one at all has ever seen the suppposed nanny nor heard casey talk to her, nor spoken with her or received a message from her, 6) casey had no job and no money to pay a nanny, 7) casey has never shed a tear over her missing daughter ("but that's because she knows she's safe!" Really? Keep me from my cat for a week and you'll see tears even if I know she's "safe"), 8) casey was pissed upon arrest because her understandably upset family "only care about finding Caylee. That's all they care about", 9) In the time Caylee was missing, casey picked up clothes and items for herself but nothing for the baby) 10) Caylee's beloved babydoll was left behind in the car mom abandoned. The same doll Caylee can go nowhere without. (Even if I knew my kid was safe, or sold, I'd want to keep a reminder of her), 11) cadaver dogs hit on human decomp in casey's backyard and in her trunk. Two different dogs. Etc, Etc. Reasonable doubt? Not reasonable to me.

 

[Chillout1989]

BUT WHY WOULD KC BEHAVE SO "UNEMOTIONALLY" IF HER DAUGHTER WAS DECEASED OR IN ANY KIND OF DANGER?
I STILL HAVE A FUNNY FEELING CAYLEE IS ALIVE;THUS THE REASON FOR KC'S DEMEANOR. IMO

 

[Pink Panther]

Yes, and most trunks don't smell so powerfully like a dead body that the smell washes over you "like a wave" as LA stated, or is so "atrocious" (also his words) that you can't stand next to the car for more than a minute. Add that to the random hair and then add this: 1) "Mom" doesn't report her child missing for 31 days or ever, 2) Same mom borrows a shovel on a day she is backing into the garage, something she never does, 3) Someone researches chloroform on the computer mom uses, 4) chloroform traces ar found in the trunk (oh, by the way, if you want to put a kid to sleep, over the counter Benadryl works just fine and does not necessitate research, chemistry or the use of an illegal substance. I take it every night to sleep), 5) No one at all has ever seen the suppposed nanny nor heard casey talk to her, nor spoken with her or received a message from her, 6) casey had no job and no money to pay a nanny, 7) casey has never shed a tear over her missing daughter ("but that's because she knows she's safe!" Really? Keep me from my cat for a week and you'll see tears even if I know she's "safe"), 8) casey was pissed upon arrest because her understandably upset family "only care about finding Caylee. That's all they care about", 9) In the time Caylee was missing, casey picked up clothes and items for herself but nothing for the baby) 10) Caylee's beloved babydoll was left behind in the car mom abandoned. The same doll Caylee can go nowhere without. (Even if I knew my kid was safe, or sold, I'd want to keep a reminder of her), 11) cadaver dogs hit on human decomp in casey's backyard and in her trunk. Two different dogs. Etc, Etc. Reasonable doubt? Not reasonable to me.

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[densme]

i found this tonight a video of caylee

asfunction:_parent.group.openLink,http://www.onetruemedia.com/shared?...kin_id=701&utm_source=otm&utm_medium=text_url

 

[greeneyz]

BUT WHY WOULD KC BEHAVE SO "UNEMOTIONALLY" IF HER DAUGHTER WAS DECEASED OR IN ANY KIND OF DANGER?
I STILL HAVE A FUNNY FEELING CAYLEE IS ALIVE;THUS THE REASON FOR KC'S DEMEANOR. IMO

I can't explain it but IMO there's a lot more to what we have been told and have read in the documents. For one LA and CA were both in the beginning convinced that KC had done something to Caylee...why the big turn around? And JG's statements don't seem to sit right with me...and why would KC have told the story of the dead squirrel before anyone knew Caylee was missing? If it smelled that bad I would think she'd have dumped the car long before she sctually did. There are just so many loose ends that I can't seem to put together here for me to say Caylee is most definately dead. I think thereares tons of things that point to that conclusion but there are just enough things that make me want to dig a litle further. JG says in his statements he had heard of ZG way before any of this happened. I guess my biggest questions are where was Casey all those times she claimed to be at work? And where was Caylee when Casey was without her and claiming she was with ZG...was she with CA??? Could Casey have let someone take Caylee thinking she'd be better off? Did someone decide on thier own that Caylee would be better off and in fact just take her? Could Casey have left her in the car while she was inside of somewhere and returned to find her gone...someone had in fact kidnapped her? I have soooo many questions that will probably never be answered the way things are going

 

[kwmred]

I can't explain it but IMO there's a lot more to what we have been told and have read in the documents. For one LA and CA were both in the beginning convinced that KC had done something to Caylee...why the big turn around? And JG's statements don't seem to sit right with me...and why would KC have told the story of the dead squirrel before anyone knew Caylee was missing? If it smelled that bad I would think she'd have dumped the car long before she sctually did. There are just so many loose ends that I can't seem to put together here for me to say Caylee is most definately dead. I think thereares tons of things that point to that conclusion but there are just enough things that make me want to dig a litle further. JG says in his statements he had heard of ZG way before any of this happened. I guess my biggest questions are where was Casey all those times she claimed to be at work? And where was Caylee when Casey was without her and claiming she was with ZG...was she with CA??? Could Casey have let someone take Caylee thinking she'd be better off? Did someone decide on thier own that Caylee would be better off and in fact just take her? Could Casey have left her in the car while she was inside of somewhere and returned to find her gone...someone had in fact kidnapped her? I have soooo many questions that will probably never be answered the way things are going

I want to shoot this theory down once and for all. I live in Florida and anyone who would leave their child in a car would be commiting murder!! It was the middle of June! You don't leave your dog in the car down here without the air conditioning running.

 

[Ladytazz]

It is not even a proven fact that Casey ever had a miscarriage at all, only that at a party she made a dramatic scene when she saw a particular "ex" and SAID that she did, sometime in the past, and that it was "his." It is no more than the grossest speculation to go from that to saying that she not only had a miscarriage, but decided to keep it and place it in her car trunk, or had on particular clothes when the event occurred, never washed them, and saved them to later put in her trunk to decompose or leave DNA, or maybe crawled into the trunk sometime after Caylee was "taken" and had the experience, etc.[/QUOTE

First time poster...
I really don't know how any of what her friends are saying is the total truth. Everything that is said cannot be taken as gospel. The fact that KC may or may not have had a miscarriage is for KC to know and the father and no one else. I also have had a miscarriage but would not want the entire world to know. As far as DNA, my children shed and there is hair everywhere. It's not uncommon to find a strand of hair in the trunk.

Hopefully not with a "death band" on it.

 

[Ladytazz]

BUT WHY WOULD KC BEHAVE SO "UNEMOTIONALLY" IF HER DAUGHTER WAS DECEASED OR IN ANY KIND OF DANGER?
I STILL HAVE A FUNNY FEELING CAYLEE IS ALIVE;THUS THE REASON FOR KC'S DEMEANOR. IMO

Why would she behave so unemotional if her child was kidnapped, as she has claimed? Why wouldn't she report that kidnapping for over a month? Like someone else said, even if she knew she was safe, obviously she isn't being brought back. Shouldn't she be emotional over that? The explanation that makes sense is that she is a sociopath, has no real feelings and in this case can't even fake them.

 

[gitana1]

BUT WHY WOULD KC BEHAVE SO "UNEMOTIONALLY" IF HER DAUGHTER WAS DECEASED OR IN ANY KIND OF DANGER?
I STILL HAVE A FUNNY FEELING CAYLEE IS ALIVE;THUS THE REASON FOR KC'S DEMEANOR. IMO

Simply, she could be a sociopath. There are many cases of seemingly loving mothers who killed their kids and then seemed unemotional about it. Baby Grace's "mom" is one. Darlie Routier is another. Susan Smith cried but most felt her tears were very fake (especially in retrospect). Bottom line, I think the thought of a mother killing her kid is just so incomprehensible to most that it is in our human nature to find any other excuse than the truth because the truth means to accept that a tiny, little, trusting girl, was destroyed by the person who bore her, who bathed her, fed her, sang to her, kissed her, hugged and held her. Because it is so da*n painful to imagine, and too horrible to believe that the last thing such an innocent child knew was that her own mother, the person who she relied on to protect her and love her, was quietly snuffing out her beautiful, little life. Who the he!! can accept that? So we can't, so we try to create conspiracy theories or kidnapping ring stories, or tales about weird grandparents or evil boyfriends or scary foreigners, or drug-addicted, crime syndicate mothers who somehow sold or stole this child away from her home. Even though there is no credible evidence for any of it. Fact is, there is much more evidence pointing to casey as the intentional murderer of her baby than for any of the other theories pointing to a live child, but some are willing to accept the theories based on little more than rumor rather than the obvious truth based on fact. I do understand why, but I don't think it can change reality.
One last thing: We have been conditioned by crime shows like CSI to believe that there can be no solution to a case if any loose ends are left. However, most cases have a huge amount of loose ends. And no one ever knows with precision what happened or maybe why. They just know that it did. Unforutnately, this attitude has been a great boon to defense attorneys and has been giving prosecutors a huge uphill battle in what previously would have been common sense cases leading to common sense convictions. This case has more circumstantial and actual evidence than many. I think LE is just biding their time and wrapping up their case, but there will be a murder charge. I just hope common sense will once again prevail so there can be a conviction and baby Caylee can finally have justice.

 

[kwmred]

Simply, she could be a sociopath. There are many cases of seemingly loving mothers who killed their kids and then seemed unemotional about it. Baby Grace's "mom" is one. Darlie Routier is another. Susan Smith cried but most felt her tears were very fake (especially in retrospect). Bottom line, I think the thought of a mother killing her kid is just so incomprehensible to most that it is in our human nature to find any other excuse than the truth because the truth means to accept that a tiny, little, trusting girl, was destroyed by the person who bore her, who bathed her, fed her, sang to her, kissed her, hugged and held her. Because it is so da*n painful to imagine, and too horrible to believe that the last thing such an innocent child knew was that her own mother, the person who she relied on to protect her and love her, was quietly snuffing out her beautiful, little life. Who the he!! can accept that? So we can't, so we try to create conspiracy theories or kidnapping ring stories, or tales about weird grandparents or evil boyfriends or scary foreigners, or drug-addicted, crime syndicate mothers who somehow sold or stole this child away from her home. Even though there is no credible evidence for any of it. Fact is, there is much more evidence pointing to casey as the intentional murderer of her baby than for any of the other theories pointing to a live child, but some are willing to accept the theories based on little more than rumor rather than the obvious truth based on fact. I do understand why, but I don't think it can change reality.
One last thing: We have been conditioned by crime shows like CSI to believe that there can be no solution to a case if any loose ends are left. However, most cases have a huge amount of loose ends. And no one ever knows with precision what happened or maybe why. They just know that it did. Unforutnately, this attitude has been a great boon to defense attorneys and has been giving prosecutors a huge uphill battle in what previously would have been common sense cases leading to common sense convictions. This case has more circumstantial and actual evidence than many. I think LE is just biding their time and wrapping up their case, but there will be a murder charge. I just hope common sense will once again prevail so there can be a conviction and baby Caylee can finally have justice.

That's one of the best posts I've read on this case. As my wonderful grandson would say "Good Job".

 

[gitana1]

That's one of the best posts I've read on this case. As my wonderful grandson would say "Good Job".

Thank you kwmred. I appreciate that!

 

[angelmom]

BUT WHY WOULD KC BEHAVE SO "UNEMOTIONALLY" IF HER DAUGHTER WAS DECEASED OR IN ANY KIND OF DANGER?
I STILL HAVE A FUNNY FEELING CAYLEE IS ALIVE;THUS THE REASON FOR KC'S DEMEANOR. IMO

I can't use this as evidence that Caylee is alive, b/c I don't see how KC could be so unemotional with Caylee missing (even if KC "knows" where she is and believes she is safe) while being accused of murdering her and facing prison and reading all of this speculation about dead bodies.

She is being watched so closely that we all KNOW she isn't in touch with anyone. How does KC really know Caylee is fine and not crying for Mommy or Cindy and isn't sick or hurt or needs something or misses her doll or whatever?

Any person with normal emotions would be worried and upset either way; ergo, KC does not have normal emotions and this cannot be construed as evidence either way.

I can't explain it but IMO there's a lot more to what we have been told and have read in the documents. For one LA and CA were both in the beginning convinced that KC had done something to Caylee...why the big turn around? And JG's statements don't seem to sit right with me...and why would KC have told the story of the dead squirrel before anyone knew Caylee was missing? If it smelled that bad I would think she'd have dumped the car long before she sctually did. There are just so many loose ends that I can't seem to put together here for me to say Caylee is most definately dead. I think thereares tons of things that point to that conclusion but there are just enough things that make me want to dig a litle further. JG says in his statements he had heard of ZG way before any of this happened. I guess my biggest questions are where was Casey all those times she claimed to be at work? And where was Caylee when Casey was without her and claiming she was with ZG...was she with CA??? Could Casey have let someone take Caylee thinking she'd be better off? Did someone decide on thier own that Caylee would be better off and in fact just take her? Could Casey have left her in the car while she was inside of somewhere and returned to find her gone...someone had in fact kidnapped her? I have soooo many questions that will probably never be answered the way things are going

I agree there are questions, but none that point to KC's innocence. If someone took Caylee, why wouldn't Casey help LE find her? There is NO good answer to that question.

 

[trina133]

I can't use this as evidence that Caylee is alive, b/c I don't see how KC could be so unemotional with Caylee missing (even if KC "knows" where she is and believes she is safe) while being accused of murdering her and facing prison and reading all of this speculation about dead bodies.

She is being watched so closely that we all KNOW she isn't in touch with anyone. How does KC really know Caylee is fine and not crying for Mommy or Cindy and isn't sick or hurt or needs something or misses her doll or whatever?
Any person with normal emotions would be worried and upset either way; ergo, KC does not have normal emotions and this cannot be construed as evidence either way.




I agree there are questions, but none that point to KC's innocence. If someone took Caylee, why wouldn't Casey help LE find her? There is NO good answer to that question.

We don't know what she does in JB's office. She may be getting calls or making calls from there.

 

[cheko1]

BUT WHY WOULD KC BEHAVE SO "UNEMOTIONALLY" IF HER DAUGHTER WAS DECEASED OR IN ANY KIND OF DANGER?
I STILL HAVE A FUNNY FEELING CAYLEE IS ALIVE;THUS THE REASON FOR KC'S DEMEANOR. IMO

KC thought nobody would question her about Caylee. She had lied to people for so long nobody ever questioned her. She totally is a "WASTE" HUGE WASTE!

 

[cheko1]

We don't know what she does in JB's office. She may be getting calls or making calls from there.

Yes I can't imagine her sitting in his office twiddling her thumbs.
She has to be in contact with some of her friends. I wonder if any goes to JB's office to spend time with her?

 

[wedavis]

No. This is not what was stated on the thread by the person who was at the party and claims to have seen what happened. Also, from Amy's interview which was under oath to back up the statements Exit13 made on that thread.

No one said she had a miscarriage during that party!!

So the idea of a hippie fetus (you know one with long brown hair) isn't going to explain the decomp evidence in Casey's car?

Shoot...