Defending against an intruder

[Chrishope]

The wrist cord may not have been applied until she was in the basement, and they were going to move her to the car.

Talk about contradiction! You think she was garotted in her bedroom to keep her quiet, then taken to the basement, where nearly dead she was bound in preparation to take her out to a car?

Is there any bit of lunacy an IDI won't swallow in order to avoid reality?

Why take her to the basement before taking her to the car? Why bother binding her wrists when control has been maintained using the garotte?

 

[Chrishope]

No reason to leave her own personal handwriting, 1500 characters worth, at a capital crime scene.

And yet, PR did exactly that. The evidence is very strong that she's the author of the RN. To pretend otherwise is to start with a conclusion and explain away facts that don't support the conclusion.

 

[Ames]

The wrist cord may not have been applied until she was in the basement, and they were going to move her to the car.

RDI:

Cord fibers in the bedroom? OK well in that case, the staging started there.
DNA evidence in suspicious places? Not related.
Cord and tape unsourced to the house? So what.
PR spells advise 'advize'? OK well in that case, she did it on purpose to throw us off.

One thing is for sure, you're thrown off. Whether or not PR did that is another story.

Why would an intruder bind her wrists, whether it be in the bedroom or the basement....over a foot apart from each other, in front of her. Doesn't sound very much like a restraint to me. Holdon, that DNA on the longjohns means absolutely nothing...UNLESS...you can prove, WHO put it there, WHEN it was put there, or HOW it got there.

 

[LI_Mom]

If you've got an intruder starting the assault upstairs & then carrying a bound JB down to the basement to continue the assault.... when did the little tea party take place????


Did they snack first & then go back upstairs to begin the assault OR....

Did he have JB in the kitchen all bound up & bring her downstairs after the snack?

 

[BBB167893]

There's no reason for PR to pretend to be foreign because ransom kidnapper would suffice.

It would suffice for you or I. PR was known for her over-the-top approach to everything. Besides, it's a clear attempt to play on popular fears.

Allow me to quote from "Prefect Murder, Perfect Town," page 497, paperback:

"In the note the kidnappers called themselves a 'small foreign faction.' Foreign to whom? From whose point of view were they writing? Real foreigners would not refer to themselves as foreign."

There's also no reason to pretend to be ransom kidnapper either because pretend accident would've attracted a lot less attention.

That's exactly my point.

No reason to leave her own personal handwriting, 1500 characters worth, at a capital crime scene.

Do you mean that in a motivational way or a technical one?

No reason to call 911 hours or even a day before the note they themselves wrote said to.

That one's hardly worth mentioning.

No reason, no reason, no reason. Of course, RDI finds ficticious reasons for these things to have happened, when really there are none factually known.

They aren't fictitious as far as I know.

The reasons why someone picked up a pen to handwrite a long note, and sexually assualted and strangled a 6 year old girl are what you're looking for.

Well, let's go through them. I have time.

The only 'rational' reason someone would handwrite a note is if they knew, really knew, their handwriting would not be subject to any comparison at all, because of their remote distance.

Well, that's your belief, and you're certainly entitled to it.

RDI has the luxury of conjuring up an infinite number of irrational scenarios, but please note that the only rational one is consistent with SFF.

Rational? No comment. As for RDI conjuring up "irrational" scenarios, as soon as I see one, I'll let you know!

 

[BBB167893]

Pardon me butting in again.

RDI:

Cord fibers in the bedroom? OK well in that case, the staging started there.

In all fairness, I've believed that since I became an RDI. No flip-flopping there.

DNA evidence in suspicious places? Not related.

Number one, they're only suspicious to people who have made up their minds, and several case insiders say it isn't related.

Cord and tape unsourced to the house? So what.

Now, be careful, Holdon. When you say "unsourced," do you mean "couldn't be found that day," or "were never there to start with?" Because I'd prefer not to paint myself into a corner.

PR spells advise 'advize'? OK well in that case, she did it on purpose to throw us off.

Doesn't matter to me one way or another.

One thing is for sure, you're thrown off. Whether or not PR did that is another story.

That it is. That it is...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If you've got an intruder starting the assault upstairs & then carrying a bound JB down to the basement to continue the assault.... when did the little tea party take place????


Did they snack first & then go back upstairs to begin the assault OR....

Did he have JB in the kitchen all bound up & bring her downstairs after the snack?

OR, did they go to the kitchen and get pineapple, and then bring it down to the basement to JBR?

BTW there's some IDI guy that believes there's no offical confirmation that the material in JBR's intestine was in fact pineapple. Is this true, and does anyone have any real facts on it?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Why would an intruder bind her wrists, whether it be in the bedroom or the basement....over a foot apart from each other, in front of her. Doesn't sound very much like a restraint to me. Holdon, that DNA on the longjohns means absolutely nothing...UNLESS...you can prove, WHO put it there, WHEN it was put there, or HOW it got there.

How come, then, the FBI and BPD aren't up in arms over the DA's declaration of the R's as INNOCENT, huh??

It seems they're OK with it.

As far as how the 2nd ligature was found, that's not that relevant. What is more relevant is how the 2nd ligature was made, and what it was capable of doing.

It was capable of tightening on JBR's wrists simultaneously, because the loops ended in slipknots. So the contraption could've been applied to JBR in the bedroom, and could've bound JBR to the point where she couldn't apply any force to them. When your hands/arms are behind your back, there's only a fraction of the force available to them when they are in front.

 

[Tadpole12]

"BTW there's some IDI guy that believes there's no offical confirmation that the material in JBR's intestine was in fact pineapple. Is this true, and does anyone have any real facts on it?"

Hi holdontoyourhat,
is there a document that confirms that? vs 'may represent pieces of pinapple'

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jonbenet7.html

p. 7. The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent pieces of pineapple.

 

[TinaD]

OR, did they go to the kitchen and get pineapple, and then bring it down to the basement to JBR?

Anf she ate it with the garrotte around her neck??

 

[BBB167893]

OR, did they go to the kitchen and get pineapple, and then bring it down to the basement to JBR?

BTW there's some IDI guy that believes there's no offical confirmation that the material in JBR's intestine was in fact pineapple. Is this true, and does anyone have any real facts on it?

He's not even close, Holdon. I quote from "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," page 558, paperback:

"Meyer noted that the pineapple in JonBenet's small intestine was in near-perfect condition."

I have more.

 

[devwat12]

When would an intruder have penned the ransom note? To me, there are three possible times.

1. Before going to get JBR from her room.
2. After getting JBR, but before killing her.
3. After killing her.

Option #3 can probably be dismissed right away. Why hang around a murder scene writing a 2.5 page ransom note for money you have absolutely no shot of collecting since your collateral is dead in the basement?

If it's number 2, where is JBR during the note writing? On the floor beside you? How are you keeping her quiet and still? If you somehow knocked her out, how do you know how long you have before she comes to? Maybe you take her to the basement and write the note there where you can reasonably expect to not be bothered, but then you have to leave her alone to take the note to the stairway and once again expose yourself to the possibility of being noticed. There seems to be way too many unnecessary risks involved with this option.

Writing the note before the abduction seems like the best choice, but how do you know JBR is in her room? What if you wasted all that time writing the note just to go up and discover that she has crawled into bed with her parents? Do you go up and check on her whereabouts, then go write the note, then return for her? That's an awful lot of running around the house and opportunities to be detected.


If it is a kidnapping, why involve the garrote? Anything wrapped around a child's neck presents a great opportunity for disaster. Some duct tape and rope/cord keeps her quiet and immobilizes her without the risk of injuring or killing her. If something went drastically wrong and the head wound came about accidentally, I can see where perhaps the intruder panicked, mistook her for dead and left her at the home. But again, why the garrote? Are you trying to make her even more dead? I have a hard time understanding how this device came into play unless the plan was to kill her all along.

 

[BBB167893]

Welcome aboard, devwat12!

 

[Tadpole12]

He's not even close, Holdon. I quote from "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," page 558, paperback:

"Meyer noted that the pineapple in JonBenet's small intestine was in near-perfect condition."

I have more.

more .... ya okay...
plz ...what other references re pinapple

 

[BBB167893]

more .... ya okay...
plz ...what other references re pinapple

Well, there's Lou Smit's interview with John Ramsey from 1998 where he confirms it is pineapple, to start with.

What are you getting at?

 

[BBB167893]

Again, pardon my butting in, but Ames has a life, unlike me!

How come, then, the FBI and BPD aren't up in arms over the DA's declaration of the R's as INNOCENT, huh??

Considering that they have other cases to work, maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet. But when Chief Beckner commented on it, he wasn't exactly in the DA's corner.

Not to mention Mike Kane, the man who ran the Grand Jury and probably knows the case better than anyone. Let's hear what he had to say:

I mean, first of all, I think that, I guess, you have to look at this evidence in the light that it is and say it‘s a conclusion of this prosecutor that it exonerates somebody, but, you know, there‘s going to be an election in November and the next prosecutor will say that it doesn‘t. And I‘m not trying to devalue the fact that it‘s a significant piece of evidence, but standing alone, it doesn‘t exonerate anybody and I think that the district attorney sending this letter really doesn‘t accomplish very much. I mean, I know that she‘s felt and made it clear for a long time, publicly, that they were not under, nobody in the family was under suspicion.

for example, if, you know, if the police go in to a house of burglary and find a fingerprint that they haven‘t matched to anybody inside the house, until you find out who‘s that is and find out how that got there, you can‘t reach a logical conclusion. That‘s all I‘m saying here. Other people who have been access to all the evidence in this case are not so convinced. And that‘s not to say that they‘re convinced, that there is a particular person that you could name. All I‘m saying is that given all the evidence that‘s still out there, that hasn‘t been explained, I would not say anybody‘s been exonerated in this case.

It seems they're OK with it.

Doesn't sound like it to me

 

[sandraladeda]

Please tell me how Sff is rational?

Small Foreign Faction is not rational, it's laughable.

Anyone who claims there is any merit to a SFF theory is,imo, being purposely obtuse.

it is an insult to the intelligence of the posters here to claim that one subscribes to that theory....

imo

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Considering that they have other cases to work, maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet. LOL. But when Chief Beckner commented on it, he wasn't exactly in the DA's corner.What did he say and do you have a link? That would be appreciated.

Not to mention Mike Kane, the man who ran the Grand Jury and probably knows the case better than anyone. Let's hear what he had to say:

I mean, first of all, I think that, I guess, you have to look at this evidence in the light that it is and say it‘s a conclusion of this prosecutor that it exonerates somebody, but, you know, there‘s going to be an election in November and the next prosecutor will say that it doesn‘t. And I‘m not trying to devalue the fact that it‘s a significant piece of evidence, but standing alone, it doesn‘t exonerate anybody and I think that the district attorney sending this letter really doesn‘t accomplish very much. I mean, I know that she‘s felt and made it clear for a long time, publicly, that they were not under, nobody in the family was under suspicion.

for example, if, you know, if the police go in to a house of burglary and find a fingerprint that they haven‘t matched to anybody inside the house, until you find out who‘s that is and find out how that got there, you can‘t reach a logical conclusion. Yes you can. If the fingerprints were found on the doorknob of the room where the items were stolen, and LE suspects the homeowners of the theft anyway, they're not reaching a logical conclusion. They're circumventing what the evidence suggests in favor of an imagined scenario. How logical is that?That‘s all I‘m saying here. Other people who have been access to all the evidence in this case are not so convinced. And that‘s not to say that they‘re convinced, that there is a particular person that you could name. All I‘m saying is that given all the evidence that‘s still out there, that hasn‘t been explained, I would not say anybody‘s been exonerated in this case.



Doesn't sound like it to me

Sounds like sour grapes.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If it is a kidnapping, why involve the garrote? Anything wrapped around a child's neck presents a great opportunity for disaster. Some duct tape and rope/cord keeps her quiet and immobilizes her without the risk of injuring or killing her. If something went drastically wrong and the head wound came about accidentally, I can see where perhaps the intruder panicked, mistook her for dead and left her at the home. But again, why the garrote? Are you trying to make her even more dead? I have a hard time understanding how this device came into play unless the plan was to kill her all along.

I think the garrote and 2nd ligature somehow worked together as a combination restraining weapon. The 2nd ligatuire could've been tightened at first and released later. The garrote could've been tightened at first, released while she was fed, and tightened later to kill.

The evidence of cord fibers in JBR's bed suggests that the garrote was on JBR in her bedroom, and used to keep her quiet to the basement. The evidence of the blanket and the tape over JBR's mouth suggest she was to be moved to a car. RDI has grandiose ideas that otherwise contradict the crime scene, like 'parents lovingly wrapping their child up' which is nothing short of rediculous when you consider yet other pesky facts like the injuries to JBR and the words in the RN depicting very unusual and graphic violence on a child.

 

[maya.morgen]

I think the garrote and 2nd ligature somehow worked together as a combination restraining weapon. The 2nd ligatuire could've been tightened at first and released later. The garrote could've been tightened at first, released while she was fed, and tightened later to kill.

The evidence of cord fibers in JBR's bed suggests that the garrote was on JBR in her bedroom, and used to keep her quiet to the basement. The evidence of the blanket and the tape over JBR's mouth suggest she was to be moved to a car. RDI has grandiose ideas that otherwise contradict the crime scene, like 'parents lovingly wrapping their child up' which is nothing short of rediculous when you consider yet other pesky facts like the injuries to JBR and the words in the RN depicting graphic violence on a child.

So the intruders used a garrote ,a stun gun AND ligatures to restrain a 6years old kid?
Sounds more like wanting to restrain Hong Kong.

And why did they feed herright there,they would have taken her away anyway,right?