Defense at crime scene jan. 30

[ZubenElSchemali]

Respectfully ...smoked ham (the sandwich type) does not rot like pork.

It is full of salt/and been smoked. Its nothing like decomposing pig.

I really don't know. I'm not a forensic scientist. Are you? If so I would also like to know what chemicals/gases there are in rotting milk or cheese or any other garbage that was in the white bag. What I do know is the report didn't sound like they had a very strong case. As I've said elsewhere, the hair of a live control sample in a study/report I read had a band on it. A LIVE 59 year old male had the banding. The one conducting the test used the same body farm. Also, any of the bodies 1-99 days post mortem had lighter colored bands, not dark.

So, if it their decomp hair had a dark band, had Caylee been deceased for at least 3 months? Impossible. Did someone lighten their hair that was dark naturally? Who knows at this point. But it seems like the root itself would be different between a live and not live person. But these points, if they are valid, are why its vital that the defense have a good team to inspect the evidence for themselves rather than take LE's word for it.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Back to the crime scene issue...

I've been furious with this issue since it first became one. Who the heck does JB think he is? I mean, really?

In ordinary circumstances which these, admittedly, are not, the crime scene would have long since been investigated. LE does not halt an investigation to wait for a defense attorney to show up and "help" with the crime scene. Ordinarily, there's not someone already in custody. LE does the job they're required to do. The defense gets everything. But they are never entitled to "help" or "oversee" to make sure LE doesn't do something wrong.

This whole thing flies in my face. I hate the insinuations that LE is incompetent. I believe quite the opposite. They ARE doing their job; they are NOT in front of cameras or making cameo appearances on LKL or the Today Show or GR or anyplace else. Neither, btw, is the prosecution. The only ones acting in an unprofessional manner is the defense. Whining. Demanding things they're not entitled to to make themselves look like the victim.

And I say to the defense -- just as a reminder -- it IS all about justice for Caylee. Hmmm, don't think I've heard that in a while.

Couldn't have said it better, EZ.

Amongst complaints that the media slants things sensationally, so too, does the defense in this case. And that should also be deserving of careful thought and consideration.

 

[Where's Andre]

No. Baez asked OCSO for crime scene photos and other documents. They refused to give them. The scene itself is useless to Baez and his forensic team without that documentation. They wouldn't even know where the skull was found. In the court hearings prior to yesterday, Baez begged for this stuff. Yesterday he referred to it as a "mountain" of discovery documents. He can't do anything meaningful at the crime scene until he knows very specific details about it.

So...? File an "Emergency Motion" (JB is sooo... fond of those when they aren't applicable) to hold the scene until he gets these docs. He didn't, he refused, while he had access and waited two months to file this motion. He likely didn't even contact the property owner and if so, didn't ask him nicely.

I think his "Dream Team" was out of town grandstanding somewhere else, so it wasn't convient at the time. Defense's latest spin is that they needed to wait two months for the vegetation to grow back. Hello? There's a drought on in much of Central Florida! And uhhhh... is your expert an entomologist or a botanist or what? I thought Lee was a blood spatter expert... apparently he's a jack-of-all trades.

 

[fortytwo]

I never looked for a spork. I must. Maybe JB will find one.

Hey!

Sporks are OT. I got chewed out for that already.

 

[Hot Dogs]

He likely didn't even contact the property owner and if so, didn't ask him nicely.

Baez mailed the property owner a bullet by certified mail.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Hey!

Sporks are OT. I got chewed out for that already.

The Dec. 20 search warrant was seeking skorts.

 

[Bobbisangel]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18609060/detail.html#-

They were immediately out there after the hearing and plan on returning over and over and over.

second section.

Defense Searches Remains Site

Meanwhile, Anthony's defense team on Friday searched the wooded area where Caylee's remains were discovered. The search occurred just hours after the defense was granted permission to search the site by a judge in a court hearing.

Sources close to the case told Local 6 News that the search was the first of many that the defense team will make to the site.

The defense team did not answer any questions after searching the site.

Exactly what are they looking for out there? I would think that LE and everyone searching the crime scene found all of the bones that were to be found. I can't imagine what they think they will find unless Dr. Henry Lee just happens to come upon bones that no one else could see like he did the fingernail on the carpet at Spectors...the one that he didn't turn over like he was supposed to do. Instead he put in in a container and stuck it in his pocket and then denied that he found it but someone or more saw him and what he did with it. He played dumb on the witness stand if memory serves me.

That defense team could have gone in to the crime scene right after LE were finished. They didn't. Then they have the nerve to write a motion whinning that they weren't allowed to go in. THE TRUTH...they wanted to wait until ole Dr. Henry Lee was available to go in with them and he couldn't come to Florida until now :furious:

 

[Ezryder9]

There are plenty of ways that JB could have located the property owner. Through the local tax assessor's office for instance? Maybe he was just too distracted dreaming up improperly filed motions to really do his homework.

I get really indignant when a property owner's rights get trampled. Not nearly as indignant when the rights of a precious child are violated, mind you. But indignant nontheless. I still would encourage the property owner to file some type of something in court, to get JB to go away and leave his property alone. JB had his chance. He shouldn't continually get a second bite at the apple.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I dont know. I thought Lee was a blood spatter expert?

Oh he's an expert alright! He screwed up in the OJ Simpson trial by saying that the blood on the gate...in OJ's vehicle..and the blood on the walkway and on the sock in Simpson's bedroom wasn't Simpson's blood or Nicoles or Rons. It was. In fact Nicole's blood and possibly Ron's was on the sock in his bedroom. Did someone break into Simpson's house and plant the sock too :furious:

During the Michael Peterson he demonstrated blood spatter by blowing ketsup on a white board. It was really pitiful and he should have know better.

In Phil Spector's trial he found a fingernail on the carpet that no one else happened to see and he stuck it in a container and put it in his pocket. He didn't turn it in to have it examined at the lab. On the stand he just couldn't remember finding the fingernail even though others had seen him pick it up and put in in a container and then put it in his pocket.

Henry Lee probably used to be a good forensic expert but he isn't anymore. Maybe it is his age or he just isn't as sharp as he used to be but something isn't right with him.

 

[Hot Dogs]

There are plenty of ways that JB could have located the property owner. Through the local tax assessor's office for instance? Maybe he was just too distracted dreaming up improperly filed motions to really do his homework.

I get really indignant when a property owner's rights get trampled. Not nearly as indignant when the rights of a precious child are violated, mind you. But indignant nontheless. I still would encourage the property owner to file some type of something in court, to get JB to go away and leave his property alone. JB had his chance. He shouldn't continually get a second bite at the apple.

Baez did locate the owner. He mailed him a certified bullet on Jan. 7. He also made phone calls. We don't know when he made those calls.

 

[fortytwo]

The Dec. 20 search warrant was seeking skorts.

Oh. Sorry.

My mistake.

 

[Ezryder9]

Baez did locate the owner. He mailed him a certified bullet on Jan. 7. He also made phone calls. We don't know when he made those calls.

My bad. I should have explained a little better. I meant he could have found him, perhaps with a street address, instead of a P.O. Box. He could have had one of his cracker jack private investigators make a personal call on the man, instead of sending him a certified letter out of the clear blue sky. In other words, if he had tried, he could have made personal, direct contact, which perhaps would have netted him permission.

And if the property owner still had declined, which I would have done were I he, there would have been sufficient notice to the property owner to represent his position in court, instead of Baez trampling his rights.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Are you suggesting that the smell of death was a pig?
Rotten ham?
I would think that cadaver dogs are trained to tell the difference between human and porcine remains.

From what I have read and heard...there is nothing on this earth that can even compare with the smell of a rotting body. I doubt that ham could even begin to compare.

 

[mydailyopinions]

I am not even going to bother reading this whole thread. The only thing I have to say is that I hope they find Zanny the Nanny in the woods!

 

[Tom'sGirl]

Let's get back to the subject of this thread without all the joking around. It only becomes confusing to those trying to read the facts/info.

Thanks!

 

[fortytwo]

My bad. I should have explained a little better. I meant he could have found him, perhaps with a street address, instead of a P.O. Box. He could have had one of his cracker jack private investigators make a personal call on the man, instead of sending him a certified letter out of the clear blue sky. In other words, if he had tried, he could have made personal, direct contact, which perhaps would have netted him permission.

And if the property owner still had declined, which I would have done were I he, there would have been sufficient notice to the property owner to represent his position in court, instead of Baez trampling his rights.

(bold above by me)

You are right, of course, in all regards.

But the fact that he didn't take advantage when LE was holding the door open for him pretty much establishes that he has not had and does not have any intention of trying.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Baez was asking for crime scene photos prior to Dec. 18. OCSO completed their investigation on Dec. 19.

Orlando Sentinel Dec. 18...

Well of course the area has been altered. LE had to practically dig up that whole acre looking for bones that small animals had drug away and taken to there tunnels in the ground and under the those trees and bushes. What a job that must have been. Is this Baez first trial? If not, wouldn't he already know that the defense and the Pros don't work hand in hand at a crime scene? He should have known that they wouldn't be allowed to go into that area while LE was looking for evidence. He really takes the cake.

 

[Spangle]

My bad. I should have explained a little better. I meant he could have found him, perhaps with a street address, instead of a P.O. Box. He could have had one of his cracker jack private investigators make a personal call on the man, instead of sending him a certified letter out of the clear blue sky. In other words, if he had tried, he could have made personal, direct contact, which perhaps would have netted him permission.

And if the property owner still had declined, which I would have done were I he, there would have been sufficient notice to the property owner to represent his position in court, instead of Baez trampling his rights.

I agree 100% But that isn't his style for 3 reasons. 1) He likes to be in the authority position. With the Judges order, he doesn't have to ask/talk/deal with the owner. Doesn't have to 'play nice.'

2) Having to ask the Judge, makes it seem like he is a victum. It's being kept from him, etc.

3) It would have taken work to find out more info on the owner. JB isn't know for doing this sort of thing. He expects LE t do it for him. Just like now, with the Judge just giving the order, the way is clear for him. That is the way he likes it. Problem sloved. All it cost is the price of a certified letter. No research, etc.

 

[Ezryder9]

Funny, I was re-listening to yesterday's argument on this motion while I've been reading. One of the Judge's first questions was "have the property owners been noticed?" Baez then said he had tried to contact them. The Judge also asks the prosecution, who says they have had no contact with the property owner. Hm. To me, that says the property owner did not have sufficient notice, and has some type of recourse for having his propety rights violated.

Mind you, I think the defense should get everything they are entitled to, within the boundaries of discovery. However, when they ask for something and get it and then don't use it, they should not have gone back. I can understand the judge granting the request, merely to prevent an potentially appealable issue for the defense, but come on Baez.

ETA: I guess what I'm getting at is this -- Baez doesn't want KC's rights violated, but he certainly didn't mind violating someone else's. What makes her rights trump anyone else's?

 

[Hot Dogs]

My bad. I should have explained a little better. I meant he could have found him, perhaps with a street address, instead of a P.O. Box. He could have had one of his cracker jack private investigators make a personal call on the man, instead of sending him a certified letter out of the clear blue sky. In other words, if he had tried, he could have made personal, direct contact, which perhaps would have netted him permission.

And if the property owner still had declined, which I would have done were I he, there would have been sufficient notice to the property owner to represent his position in court, instead of Baez trampling his rights.

I understand. But you can see in my post and in Baez's motion that he did find the owner and made phone calls to this person. He did not return calls or respond to the certified mail. It forced Baez to make a motion to access the property without the owner's consent.

Baez himself is not a forensic crime scene investigator. He needs experts to do that. I am not questioning the propriety or thoroughness of OCSO CSI in any way. But we cannot make meaningful armchair proclamations about what the defense experts would or would not find. They may not have found any item of value. They may have desired to look at the scene with a mapping and photos of the found evidence. But without those documents from OCSO, they can't know where anything was located.

Baez needed legal access to the property, he needed the schematics and evidence photos from OCSO, and he needed his own expert investigators. He needed all of that at the same time. He was contacted and granted access to the scene at 11:30am on Saturday Dec. 20. By the end of that day the scene was marked 'no trespassing' and that was it for Baez.

He was refused the docs and photos by OCSO for fear of leaking them. He was refused access to the property by the owner who wouldn't respond.

I'm not saying Baez is a good attorney. I'm just saying that circumstances prevented him from conducting a proper investigation soon after OCSO was done with the site.