GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #1,161
If it happened (which I doubt), it wasn't an accident.

I may be misunderstanding this as I know nothing of submarines, when the vacuum supposedly happened was the time to call for help / head for shore / do something for crying out loud.

How long could KW survive sealed in the sub? Minutes? Hours? Days?

Flooding the sub with exhaust gasses to relieve the pressure was the nuclear option.

Although it was vague, I'm going back to the evidence that KW's body didn't suffer from the effects of the heat expected. I'm leaning towards this meaning the heat from exhaust gasses.

As for Deidre... no words really. It was only a couple of weeks ago she was contemplating she could have been the victim.

I agree with you LB. He may well have intended it to happen to incapacitate Kim imo. He clearly knew about the problem. I think a snuff movie was filmed and probably transmitted and that is why he neither called for help or headed for shore and is also the reason his phone is missing.

I don't think they found evidence of CO poisoning either.

I would be interested in reading this blog he was so busy writing in. Has that been submitted in evidence?
 
  • #1,162
I agree with you LB. He may well have intended it to happen to incapacitate Kim imo. He clearly knew about the problem. I think a snuff movie was filmed and probably transmitted and that is why he neither called for help or headed for shore and is also the reason his phone is missing.

I don't think they found evidence of CO poisoning either.

I would be interested in reading this blog he was so busy writing in. Has that been submitted in evidence?

This may have been posted earlier in the thread, can't remember.

Last blog post was 9th August 2017. Seems to be about the rocket and CS.

https://ing.dk/blogs/raket-madsens-rumlaboratorium
 
  • #1,163
  • #1,164
Still in shock over Deirdre!
Peter Madsen manipulating and courting her - directly from the courtroom!!
 
  • #1,165
  • #1,166
  • #1,167
THE MADSEN CASE, FINAL PART


Claes Levin followed this on television as well as the downward spiral of the Copenhagen Suborbitals. Today he went to the workshop because the navigation system didn't leave him in peace. It should at least be disposed of properly. But it's all gone, movies were found here where women are tortured and burned.

Tuesday, August 8th, 2:30 pm: Levin calls Madsen. The dinghy was fit for the missile test on Friday. Does Madsen think he should install the navigation system in the submarine before departure? "No," Madsen said, "I'm canceling the mission." An order had been cancelled, he would have lost 30.000, Euro!

Tuesday, August 8th, 3.13 pm: Madsen invites Deirdre to the Nautilus for the very day the crew wanted to leave for the missile test area.

Wednesday, August 9th, 10:27 p. m.: Madsen posts the last blog entry, a detailed cancellation of the test. "Today there are two projects on Refshaleøen that make my wildest dreams come true." However, the test area was too full. He tried to get in touch with the Suborbitals, but they only communicate via blogs. But he doesn't want to block anyone.

Surrender? Peter Madsen? He had probably canceled this mission inwardly for some time already. The question is: When? And why is that? There are theories. One is: Madsen dreamed of committing a perfect crime. At least that's what he told a friend.

The naval officer Steen Lorck explains on Danish television that Madsen imagined himself to be hunted by the police. It would be the culmination of a narcissistic fantasy to rise above all others. An act cruel enough to put everything in the shade, the failure of Rocket Madsen Space Lab, the Copenhagen Suborbitals, the end of which only one gentleman is able to pull it off: Peter Madsen.

The second theory is that missiles are expensive. The Nautilus had been on land for years, scrapped by all the exits and stag nights that were a source of income for Madsen. He was always on the limit financially, helped by sponsors and lived in an old boat. In the last blog he also writes about money, of which he would have liked to have had more. And Claes Levin says he was missing 30,000 euros.

The next morning, on the day Kim Wall's disappearance, Madsen writes to Deirdre at 8:39:"We're going on a cruise tomorrow, Jubii!" She says,"Yeah." He sends pictures of three pairs of high-heeled shoes. I think the boots are great," he writes with three red hearts. "But you can also come in sneakers." She says,"Thank you, you're lovely." He: "Ha, you too! It takes luck to meet someone like you, Ditte. And by that I mean the whole package."

It's this sentence that Deirdre is most preoccupied with in retrospect. At the time, she didn't give it any meaning. Madsen was into heels, stilettos, stockings, but which man doesn't? And it wouldn't have been the first time they'd ever had sex on the bottom of the sea, which, by the way, they call perfectly normal. It had turned him on to hear what other men had done to her. And role-playing, masks, uniforms, that's all.

Deirdre does not write Madsen back until the evening of August 10th, about three hours after he left with Kim Wall. According to the magazine "Wired", he invites the journalist to his workshop in the late afternoon by text message. She lives nearby, prepares a farewell barbecue with her boyfriend. They want to emigrate to Beijing. When Wall receives the interview promise she can't resist the lure of a good story. That night she was last seen alive.

After the first meeting with Deirdre, a second meeting was arranged. It should have taken place on the day when the Danish newspapers are full with a new detail:"Murder plan revealed by SMS", for example, is the headline of the tabloid "BT". Anonymously cited is a woman from the alternative scene. She asked Madsen in a text message to stimulate her with a threat. Then he revealed the fantasy of cutting up a woman in a submarine.

Is this woman Deirdre? She doesn't answer for a day, she promises a meeting and then cancels it again. Only Thomas Djursing, Madsen's biographer, who had previously rejected several requests for this article, can now clarify the matter. Before Christmas he wanted to publish a book series on the case and triggered a shitstorm. Critics accused him of lacking respect for the victim's family. That's why he didn't want to give any more interviews before the trial.

Now he answers anyway. Deirdre was "very close to Madsen, until the end". Of course, he is torturing his brain, looking for the missing pieces of this horrible puzzle like a man possessed. He knows about another woman that Madsen tried to lure on the submarine. And from a new theory: Has Madsen made a snuff film? Did he kill Kim Wall in front of running cameras? Were there any boats nearby that could have received the material? "Yes, two," says Djursing and offers the keyword Barcelona.



Almost at the same time, Deirdre writes and apologizes for having needed distance. She is now convinced that she was the perfect victim. She was single at the time, didn't have a permanent job and often went out for a few days. "I wouldn't have been missed for weeks."

It is even more unbelievable at a time when this investigation already appears to be completely devastating: Yes, Madsen had been in Barcelona and returned from there on 14 July, about a month before the crime. Deirdre knows this because she met him when he returned to the Bella Sky Hotel. And he had called from Barcelona several times excitedly, told of businessmen who had paid him a business ticket and ordered a submarine for 2.5 million euros. A sex submarine. Of course, it might as well have been something else. He hadn't said a word about the launch of the rocket.

On March 26, Deirdre Elisabeth King will testify against Peter Madsen in court at 2.45 pm. The subpoena is available to the "NZZ am Sonntag". Also a letter he wrote to her from prison. No more than half A4 page. It says he doesn't get enough visitors and has free time. "There are no words for how happy I would be about your visit," Madsen writes as if nothing had happened. Deirdre has lost her belief that he's innocent. She says,"Kim has lost her life, Peter his, and we all have lost the dream of being part of something bigger."


BBM

Bumping this post from ZaZara that details some of the blog entries.
 
  • #1,168
  • #1,169
Monday, March 26th:
*Trial continues (Day 5) - Denmark - Kim Isabel Wall (30) (Aug. 10, 2017) - Peter Langkjær Madsen (46) charged with premeditated murder in addition to dismemberment & sexual relations other than intercourse of a particularly dangerous nature & indecent handling of a corpse. Pled not guilty. Trial continues
March 26 - Witnesses
March 27 - Witnesses
March 28 - Witnesses (afternoon reserved for lawyer's questions of PM, postponed from March 21)
April 3 - Witnesses
April 4 - Documentation
April 5 - Reserve Day
April 23 - Procedures
April 25 - Verdict
37 witnesses will take the stand during case, 29 from the prosecution and 8 from the defense. 3/22: 6 witnesses; 3/23: 4 witnesses (+1 cancelled).


Do I have the number of witnesses correct? TIA!

Bumping Niner´s post.
 
  • #1,170
Still in shock over Deirdre!
Peter Madsen manipulating and courting her - directly from the courtroom!!


This is what Satchie wrote a while ago about shame and shamelessness. The discussion was about the article written by Kim's friend May Jeong, but the angle of shame and shamelessness applies throughout this case.


I know that 'shame' is considered taboo these days, but I think it still serves a vital purpose in defining the absolute boundaries/limits of what is tolerable behaviour.


I think if Peter Madsen had felt shame about his sadistic impulses, he wouldn't have killed Kim Wall. That's the purpose of shame, to provide you with feedback about your behaviour, to let you know that you're crossing a major boundary.

Even if he doesn't feel that shame, we should feel it towards his actions, be offended and disgusted by them and refuse to allow him to come up with excuses for them. I think that's what she was inviting him to do when she wrote asking him 'what happened', as though it was an accident.

As I said, either she's naive, or she's not feeling the shame of what he did. Neither are his friends, apparently, they just say 'he's mad' as an excuse for him.

BBM & RSBM


Peter Madsen has no shame.
Deirdre has no shame - that was obvious from the interview and again today in court.
The unnamed friend who needed PM to tell her stories of murder so she would finish editing her video was utterly shameless too.

It should come as no surprise that Madsen and Deirdre continue their behaviour throughout the trial and possibly after. If they are impressed by the court at all, it is because the court has the power to take away Madsen's freedom, not because there is a moral component of good and evil to it. Call it a Higher Power ~ they do not accept that. Calling the Prosecutor by his first name is a symptom too.


[ Looking back, the report by May Jeong irked me for many reasons, the fact that she clearly does not recognize shame and shamelessness nor the boundaries of tolerable behaviour among them. ]
 
  • #1,171
I have now read up on it all, and here is something I have noticed as something that should/could be crucial:

I think it was witness 9 who got "locked up" in the sub because of the under-pressure. PM told her that she would have been dead after 20 minuttes if he didnt rescue her. One of the more tchnical witnesses told that it would take the hatch 5-10 minuttes to be able to open again after the "lockdown".
Now if that is true then PM's explainarion about that was what killed KW then its not plausible anymore. He would have had at least 10 minuttes to get down to help her up before she died.

One of the acquaintances from 2004 that witnessed, told that already at that point PM had an interest in snuff-videos, becase PM showed him one at that time. So this is not just some new fascination that some women had put into his head. He have thought bout that for a very long time, and probably it was him who put the idea into the womens head, not the other way around.

Apparently Deidre was invited to a trip aug. 11 in the sub on aug 8, and that was before PM cancelled the trip to Bornholm. It seems that he already knew that he wasnt going to Bornholm, and its also possible that he might have killed Deidre if he didnt manage to get KW on the sub the day before.
 
  • #1,172
Tuesday, March 27th:
*Trial continues (Day 6) - Denmark - Kim Isabel Wall (30) (Aug. 10, 2017) - Peter Langkjær Madsen (46) charged with premeditated murder in addition to dismemberment & sexual relations other than intercourse of a particularly dangerous nature & indecent handling of a corpse. Pled not guilty. Trial continues
March 27 - Witnesses
March 28 - Witnesses (afternoon reserved for lawyer's questions of PM, postponed from March 21)
April 3 - Witnesses
April 4 - Documentation
April 5 - Reserve Day
April 23 - Procedures
April 25 - Verdict
37 witnesses will take the stand during case, 29 from the prosecution and 8 from the defense. 3/22: 6 witnesses; 3/23: 4 witnesses (+1 cancelled); 3/26: 9 witnesses (19 witness so far for Pros).



Does anyone know "what" time this trial usually starts? TIA!
 
  • #1,173
Tuesday, March 27th:
*Trial continues (Day 6) - Denmark - Kim Isabel Wall (30) (Aug. 10, 2017) - Peter Langkjær Madsen (46) charged with premeditated murder in addition to dismemberment & sexual relations other than intercourse of a particularly dangerous nature & indecent handling of a corpse. Pled not guilty. Trial continues
March 27 - Witnesses
March 28 - Witnesses (afternoon reserved for lawyer's questions of PM, postponed from March 21)
April 3 - Witnesses
April 4 - Documentation
April 5 - Reserve Day
April 23 - Procedures
April 25 - Verdict
37 witnesses will take the stand during case, 29 from the prosecution and 8 from the defense. 3/22: 6 witnesses; 3/23: 4 witnesses (+1 cancelled); 3/26: 9 witnesses (19 witness so far for Pros).



Does anyone know "what" time this trial usually starts? TIA!
The trial starts usually at 9:30 danish time. So its just started.

Here is the link to Ekstra Bladets live-blog (in danish)
https://ekstrabladet.dk/112/live-i-dag-skal-ubaadsekspert-tale/7094459

Here is a link to tv2.dk, also in danish:
http://nyheder.tv2.dk/2018-03-27-foelg-retssagen-mod-peter-madsen-sjette-dag

Kim Walls parents are there today. They havent been there since the first day.

They said in the news that its the witnesses called in from the defense that are being questioned today.
 
  • #1,174
First witness is escorted by a female officer. It is a young woman with bright hair. She sits at the desk in the middle of the room.
She has worked as a volunteer at the rocket workshop. It was a contact created through her physics teacher who was also affiliated with the workshop. He explained last week.

"I have worked with the centrifuge, and then I helped clean the submarine," the witness said.
The witness was with a young man helping to clean the submarine a few days before August 10, when Peter Madsen sailed out with Kim Wall.
She has not seen a green water hose in the submarine. Never. Her relationship with Peter Madsen was technical. She did not notice the big change in him.
- I noticed that he was a bit stressed, or not.

- Has Peter Madsen ever asked if you wanted to go alone in the submarine? asks the prosecutor.
- Yes, one time.
It was July 26th. The invitation came 14 days before Kim Wall sailed with.
- It was over the phone. Maybe sms.
The witness remembers the date because she had a birthday with her boyfriend.

The prosecutor flips in his many papers. In front of him lies close to 20 thick, bound text collections. That is the case's file.
He takes a folder and goes to the witness. Folds the folder on the table in front of her. Shows her images from the folder.
Has she ever seen a green water hose in the submarine? No.

New picture. Has she ever seen iron pipes as in the picture? No.

Tighten the straps? Well, they were used to close the hatches. She has not seen the blue strap from Biltema.

If the witness also cleaned the metal cabinets? Yes, she did.

Strokes on the floor of the submarine, has she seen them before?
- Yes, maybe the orange.

- But not there. It does not seem logical that it is there, says the witness.

These are strap straps, which, according to the prosecutor, were used to clamp Kim Wall's ankles down the submarine. Peter Madsen has explained that they must have advocated that they were used to fix a ladder.

The witness does not believe the ladder has been at the place Peter Madsen says.

No extra boiler suit
The prosecutor shows a 50 cm long screwdriver forward. Have you witnessed this one before?

- No, never. Nor in the rocket workshop.

If the witness ever saw that Peter Madsen had an extra boot suit with the submarine?

- No.

The police found an extra boot suit in the submarine after the voyage with Kim Wall. Beyond that Peter Madsen was wearing. None of the witnesses asked have previously seen that Peter Madsen should have had an extra boot suit. These are the green boots that Peter Madsen often went along with. Also when he was taken to land.

The witness has not seen wood for shelves or a saw in the submarine.
 
  • #1,175
Now its the defense-lawyers turn to question.

"Is it your impression that Peter often sailed with the submarine, asks the defense attorney.
"No, not very often," said the witness.
- But were you every day in the workshop?
"No, I was not," said the witness.
"Then you could not know how often Peter sailed with the submarine, asking the defense attorney.
- No, says the witness

The defense attorney now documents that the witness to the police has told her that she was last on the submarine August 4th.

The defense attorney now asks for the trip that Peter Madsen invited the young witness to the submarine in the period up to 10 August.
It is the witness's impression that the trip should be for only the two. Peter Madsen asks the witness on July 26th.

Are you sure it's only you and Peter on that trip, asks the defense attorney.
"No," said the witness.

The defense attorney now asks for the cameras that were in the workshop.
"There were some go pro cameras," said the witness.
"And there was something with those cameras, something with the memory cards," asks the defense attorney.
- Oh yes, they always lacked, says the witness
"Was it something Peter complained about, asks the lawyer.
"I do not remember if it was Peter, but that was something we talked about in the workshop," said the witness.

The defense attorney has now completed the hearing, but the prosecutor has some supplementary questions.
The witness has been questioned on September 28 by the police.
- Has Peter ever said anything strange in relation to your body, asks the prosecutor.
"Once I was going to change a suit, he told me that if he had such a body, it would be used, because then he would party all the time," the witness said.

- Did you talk about diving around the submarine in August 2017, asks the prosecutor.
"We had talked about cleaning the bunks and we should also look for some things that had been lost in the water near the submarine," the witness said.

The prosecutor has completed his questions, but the defense attorney has a follow-up question.
Was you told anything there is to know about the submarine? Would Peter say everything he wanted to do in the submarine, asks the defense attorney.
- No, the witness says.
Thus, the hearing of the witness is complete.
 
  • #1,176
  • #1,177
A new witness has taken place. It is a young woman who went out with a friend on the refshale island in August last year.

"We're going by the submarine and there are some tourists who talk with Peter Madsen," the witness said.
- He says that he himself built it and that it was a freetime vehicle. We wondered why there was such a submarine there, and he told him about that, says the witness.
- Do you take some pictures in this regard, asks the prosecutor.
"Yes, we'll have a tour on the submarine," the witness said.

- What happens then, asks the prosecutor.
- He tells you that he sometimes makes such trips where you can go out and sail with him. I do not remember exactly what he says, but he told us that we could also come along, says the female witness.
- Did you have an impression that you were invited out alone, the prosecutor asks.
- No, I was talking to my girlfriend. So he gets my number, says the witness, telling Peter Madsen to find them on Facebook and become friends with them.

"My friend is so thankful to him because he has shown us around, says the witness, and later she tells that Peter Madsen write to her about that he has planned a trip and if she wants to go.
"I'm doing a group chat with my friend and Peter Madsen to agree closer, but the trip is not going to be anything," said the witness.

The witness tells that the tour in May never happens, but two months later - at the end of July - Peter Madsen call her.
The witness does not take the phone because she thinks it's strange that Madsen is calling for so long after.
"I'm not going to come with an excuse that I'm on vacation."

The witness tells Peter Madsen tries to reach her again on August 8th.
Here Peter Madsen writes:
'Hi. Can you remember the underwater boat. I want to make an underwater trip at Flakfortet, do you want to go? '
"I think it was strange that he only wrote to me," the witness said.

- What did you think about the SMS on August 8? And what are you thinking today, the prosecutor asks. Here the defense attorney breaks in and asks that the witness only relates to her thoughts on 8 August.
"The witness may have been affected by the press," said the defense attorney.

- That was weird. Part of the call and partly with the text, the witness answers.

The prosecutor has finished his hearing, and Betina Hald Engmark takes over.
- How did you experience Peter when you first talked to him.
"It was a pleasant experience. We were interested in the submarine, the witness answers.

The defense lawyer is now wondering if the witness was told about the canceled launch of a rocket in September 2017. She does because the witness has written to Peter Madsen that she thought he was inspiring.
The witness tells her that she knew the plans, but not the exact dates.

The defense attorney has no more questions, but the prosecutor has a follow-up question.
- Was there anything else that surprised you as Peter Madsen invited you only and not your friend, asks the prosecutor.
The witness does not understand the question, so the prosecutor reads a hearing of the witness. "It wondered that Peter herself contacted her. There were many who wanted to go out with the submarine. '
"Yes, I have said," said the witness.
"It seemed like they were doing many trips where they were out and sailing with the submarine. And if it was my submarine, I would not have kept inviting me when I did not answer, says the witness.
"But I can not assume anything. But there was nothing strange in it, says the witness.

The prosecutor has no more questions, but the defense attorney has one last.
"Do you even know if there were any other people involved in the trip you were invited to?" The lawyer asks.
"No, I do not know," said the witness.

Thus the questioning of the witness is over. A new witness takes place in the middle of the hall. This time it's a man.
 
  • #1,178
Thanks L_I - she sounds more like a witness for the prosecution, doesn't she?
Apart from the camera bit.
And Deirdre certainly sounded like a witness for the defence.

The Sky reporter says she is not in court but will update here (yesterday's link):
https://news.sky.com/story/live-kim-wall-submarine-murder-trial-day-four-11300927
She says Kim Wall's parents are in court.

Yeah, I agree. I dont know where the journalists get their info from, about who is going to be questioned, but it seems not very accurate.

I saw that sky news looked outdated, so I thought I might translate a little as long as I am able to.
 
  • #1,179
A new witness takes place in the middle of the hall. This time it's a man.

- If you have been a member of a rocket association that Peter Madsen has also been in, ask the prosecutor.
- Yes, the witness says that he has been a member since 2008.
"But Peter was thrown out later," said the witness.

"Do you know if Peter Madsen knows Køge Bay?" Asks the prosecutor.
- He knows it. He has had his former submarines in Brøndby, so he has sailed around there so much, says the witness from the Copenhagen Suborbitals rocket association.

The prosecutor asks for some theme evenings, which were called science night and that they also talked about arranging a 'crime night'.
"It was mostly a joke. It never came to be anything, says the witness.
- Has Peter Madsen been particularly interested in crime, asks the prosecutor.
"Most story, but there are also some killing cases," the witness said.

The witness syas that about ten years ago they had a discussion about the disposal of a body. The witness can not remember who said what.
The prosecutor reads a question. 'The subject was how to get rid of a body in the perfect way'.
"I remember Peter was bringing it up, but I'm not sure," said the witness.

"Do you remember what was said, talking about the Køge Bay area, asks the prosecutor.
- I believe that. We talked about that the roundabout down there was a good place, says the witness.
- It's a traffic separation site. There is a lot of ship traffic so it's hard to dive out there and pull sonars, says the witness.

"Your first explanation to the police sounds" Peter Madsen was against all the electronics on board the boat and he did not sail with GPS position. "Have you explained that?" Asks the prosecutor.
- I can say that. Peter would always rather keep it mechanical or electronic, says the witness.
Did you tell the police that Peter knew Køge Bay very well?
"Yes, he has sailed a lot," said the witness.

The prosecutor has finished his hearing of the witness and the defender takes over. She shows a map of Køge Bay.
- The roundabout you're talking about is here, asks the lawyer.
"No, it's more south," said the witness.

- Had Peter Madsen a good knowledge of other places in Køge, asks the lawyer.
"Yes, the harbor of Copenhagen and the middle ground fort," the witness said

The lawyer now asks for the witness's connection with Copenhagen Suborbitalts.
"When Peter breaks with them, do you have anything to do with him afterwards," asks the lawyer.
"No, only when we happened to meet," said the witness.

- I understand your explanation here in court that my client was primarily interested in history and that criminal offenses were a part of a part but not a large part, the lawyer asks.
"Yes, that was my impression," said the witness.

The defense attorney has no more questions, but the prosecutor comes with a supplementary question.
He documented from the witness's explanation to the police. Here the witness has told that it was Peter Madsen, who had chosen the topic of how to get a rid of a body.
"I remember it as it was Peter Madsen, but it's a story that has been repeated sometimes, so I can not say it a hundred percent," said the witness.

The hearing of the witness has been completed and the court takes a little morning break until 10.55.
 
  • #1,180
Next of kin are protected in courtroom
Peter Madsen stays in the courtroom when his defender leaves the courtroom. He stands up leaning on a heater. Says something to one of the two persons from the prosecution who follows him to and from court. Laughing a little

Then the guards lead him through the courtroom to the door at the back of the room - but back again. He has his hands in his pants. He ends up being led through an exit to the left of the judges table.

Shortly after, the police chief Jens Møller walks through the courtroom together with Kim Walls parents. They are going through the same door, but wait a little, so they will not meet Peter Madsen.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
120
Guests online
3,295
Total visitors
3,415

Forum statistics

Threads
632,634
Messages
18,629,501
Members
243,231
Latest member
Irena21D
Back
Top