Desiree says Terri had “Extreme hatred for Kyron"

[revampz]

Parents just know when their children are going through something bad even when they are miles away. Desiree had to squash some of those worries down and not fight for custody. Am I to believe Terri wasn't pushing for that, too? If she hated Kyron so much she would be harping on Kaine for this to happen, I'd think.

Kaine sounds like he was totally stubborn and controlling in this matter. It's easier to understand Desiree not wanting to go into battle for custody, and her remorse now. Wonder all of what Kaine actually noticed and how he feels now.

For some reason upon waking up this morning, I remembered the blended family in the beginning, so loving and wholesome, and how it has morphed into this mess that was under the carpet all along.

I agree with you whole heartedly......

What a mess. I think Kaine was extremely selfish. He knew there were problems and yet he still expected a women he knew did not like his child to mother him and I repeat mother him. Mother is a big role. Stepdads alot of the time go to work and spend time with the kids after work. Mothers do so much more. He wanted his cake and eat it too. He should have either divorced her and taken Kyron or chose to stay with her and give up custody and have him on the weekends so the pressure was off Terri abit. Desiree should have been asking a few more questions as to why Terri wanted Kyron to go back with her, especially when she knew there was something wrong and Kyron did not want to go home after his visits.

Terri of course took it all too far and what she did was extremely wrong.

Thank you smoothoperator for your kind words. I have not been on here for a couple of days as I did not want to read the responses to my post. It is a very touchy subject to me and after seeing a therapist I am ok about it as it was a unique situation. When my husband (boyfriend then) asked me if I would take on his daughter, I said no and we split up. However they all agreed that the kids would stay together and complete school and go to their dads at school holidays so they could form a relationship with their fathers and their fathers new wives/families. I thought this was an excellent idea and had no problem with it, and looked forward to getting to know her. BUT the oldest boy sexually abused the daughters of the woman who took them in (the wife of the father of the 2nd child) and she had a breakdown as her family was destroyed (2 daughters went to their dads and 1 went into foster care)hence his daughter ending up with us. I had met her once for 2 days.

For those who judge and say you know what you were getting into when you married them etc I agree!!! I say to all of those out there who are in or getting into relationships with people with children, make sure there is a relationship with the children and test it out. If there are problems they need to be soughted otherwise it will not work. I wish I had of had a relationship with this girl first so I could forsee the problems and have the opportunity to make the decision whether to stay or not. Also people say to put the children first, I also agree with that. I chose to put my children first. They deserved to have a happy mother, who was not always stressed or crying, or angry and consumed by a situation but who could give her all to them. I also told my husband that he should put his daughter first and we have an amicable divorce and share our two children one week on one week off. Sad but he did not and still doesnt have that bond with her. I blame her mother, these poor children had the bonds broken with their fathers (the first 3 the 4th went to live with his dad at the age of 5 and is doing well).

The reason I put my situation on here is to highlight what is happening out there in this modern society of broken homes, jumping from relationship to relationship and taking these children with them. It does not always work and there can be tragic outcomes. I would say it is not working more often that it is working. For those of you that is has, I say excellent!!!! more people need to take this seriously instead of HOPING that it is going to work or not caring at all if it does, maybe a few more of the children that end up as cases on here may have been/be saved.

 

[SurfieTX]

I agree with you whole heartedly......

What a mess. I think Kaine was extremely selfish. He knew there were problems and yet he still expected a women he knew did not like his child to mother him and I repeat mother him. Mother is a big role. Stepdads alot of the time go to work and spend time with the kids after work. Mothers do so much more. He wanted his cake and eat it too. He should have either divorced her and taken Kyron or chose to stay with her and give up custody and have him on the weekends so the pressure was off Terri abit. Desiree should have been asking a few more questions as to why Terri wanted Kyron to go back with her, especially when she knew there was something wrong and Kyron did not want to go home after his visits.

Terri of course took it all too far and what she did was extremely wrong.

Thank you smoothoperator for your kind words. I have not been on here for a couple of days as I did not want to read the responses to my post. It is a very touchy subject to me and after seeing a therapist I am ok about it as it was a unique situation. When my husband (boyfriend then) asked me if I would take on his daughter, I said no and we split up. However they all agreed that the kids would stay together and complete school and go to their dads at school holidays so they could form a relationship with their fathers and their fathers new wives/families. I thought this was an excellent idea and had no problem with it, and looked forward to getting to know her. BUT the oldest boy sexually abused the daughters of the woman who took them in (the wife of the father of the 2nd child) and she had a breakdown as her family was destroyed (2 daughters went to their dads and 1 went into foster care)hence his daughter ending up with us. I had met her once for 2 days.

For those who judge and say you know what you were getting into when you married them etc I agree!!! I say to all of those out there who are in or getting into relationships with people with children, make sure there is a relationship with the children and test it out. If there are problems they need to be soughted otherwise it will not work. I wish I had of had a relationship with this girl first so I could forsee the problems and have the opportunity to make the decision whether to stay or not. Also people say to put the children first, I also agree with that. I chose to put my children first. They deserved to have a happy mother, who was not always stressed or crying, or angry and consumed by a situation but who could give her all to them. I also told my husband that he should put his daughter first and we have an amicable divorce and share our two children one week on one week off. Sad but he did not and still doesnt have that bond with her. I blame her mother, these poor children had the bonds broken with their fathers (the first 3 the 4th went to live with his dad at the age of 5 and is doing well).

The reason I put my situation on here is to highlight what is happening out there in this modern society of broken homes, jumping from relationship to relationship and taking these children with them. It does not always work and there can be tragic outcomes. I would say it is not working more often that it is working. For those of you that is has, I say excellent!!!! more people need to take this seriously instead of HOPING that it is going to work or not caring at all if it does, maybe a few more of the children that end up as cases on here may have been/be saved.

Kaine and Terri lived together for five years before getting married. Added to say, Desiree had full custody for the first 2 years. Kyron spent 2 hours a day with Kaine, Terri and J. He went to daycare the rest of the day, and he spent the rest of his time with Desiree. Terri and her son, J, however, moved in immediately. I would argue that he was a better "father" to J than she was a "mother" to Kyron those first 2 years.

My opinion, of course.

 

[cluciano63]

I think Kaine had the best of intentions for Kyron, but also was determined not to lose custody. A mother with a new husband who had "issues" would probably do the same; hide those issues as best she could from her ex. It's not the best thing for the child though, if there are real problems in the home. Sometimes parents are selfish when it comes to their kids, not meaning any harm, but guilty of wanting them too much to decide if their home is the better one.

 

[citigirl]

I agree with you whole heartedly......

What a mess. I think Kaine was extremely selfish. He knew there were problems and yet he still expected a women he knew did not like his child to mother him and I repeat mother him. Mother is a big role. Stepdads alot of the time go to work and spend time with the kids after work. Mothers do so much more. He wanted his cake and eat it too. He should have either divorced her and taken Kyron or chose to stay with her and give up custody and have him on the weekends so the pressure was off Terri abit. Desiree should have been asking a few more questions as to why Terri wanted Kyron to go back with her, especially when she knew there was something wrong and Kyron did not want to go home after his visits.

Terri of course took it all too far and what she did was extremely wrong.

Thank you smoothoperator for your kind words. I have not been on here for a couple of days as I did not want to read the responses to my post. It is a very touchy subject to me and after seeing a therapist I am ok about it as it was a unique situation. When my husband (boyfriend then) asked me if I would take on his daughter, I said no and we split up. However they all agreed that the kids would stay together and complete school and go to their dads at school holidays so they could form a relationship with their fathers and their fathers new wives/families. I thought this was an excellent idea and had no problem with it, and looked forward to getting to know her. BUT the oldest boy sexually abused the daughters of the woman who took them in (the wife of the father of the 2nd child) and she had a breakdown as her family was destroyed (2 daughters went to their dads and 1 went into foster care)hence his daughter ending up with us. I had met her once for 2 days.

For those who judge and say you know what you were getting into when you married them etc I agree!!! I say to all of those out there who are in or getting into relationships with people with children, make sure there is a relationship with the children and test it out. If there are problems they need to be soughted otherwise it will not work. I wish I had of had a relationship with this girl first so I could forsee the problems and have the opportunity to make the decision whether to stay or not. Also people say to put the children first, I also agree with that. I chose to put my children first. They deserved to have a happy mother, who was not always stressed or crying, or angry and consumed by a situation but who could give her all to them. I also told my husband that he should put his daughter first and we have an amicable divorce and share our two children one week on one week off. Sad but he did not and still doesnt have that bond with her. I blame her mother, these poor children had the bonds broken with their fathers (the first 3 the 4th went to live with his dad at the age of 5 and is doing well).

The reason I put my situation on here is to highlight what is happening out there in this modern society of broken homes, jumping from relationship to relationship and taking these children with them. It does not always work and there can be tragic outcomes. I would say it is not working more often that it is working. For those of you that is has, I say excellent!!!! more people need to take this seriously instead of HOPING that it is going to work or not caring at all if it does, maybe a few more of the children that end up as cases on here may have been/be saved.

Revampz, I hope you are not still feeling bad about this. Yours was an extreme situation. Everything you did sounds right to me.

 

[nosysw]

(((((ReVampz)))))

None of us have walked in your shoes and your situation, as you said, sounds very unique. I'm glad you got some professional help to deal with what must have been some incredibly difficult feelings.

You were very brave to share this and I appreciate you doing so. As I have said before, blended families are exremely difficult in many cases- sometimes things work out well, but more often most of the relationships suffer.

Thank you for sharing your experience. The more points of view we have the better.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I must say personally i find it strange that a mother does not get full custody in this country as opposed to where i am from. I went through a divorce very early in my life, and the courts there always give the biological mother full custody, with the paternal father getting access to any children. The only reason the court will not grant full custody to the mother is if she is not mentally capable of taking care of her child or children, as in drug abuse or mental illness etc. To me it also seemed only right that the mother should be able to get full custody, she is the one that carries a pregnancy for 9 months and gives birth. No matter how bonded a father is to his children, it is nothing like the bond between mother and child. This is why i find it difficult to comprehend as to why Kaine got the custody of Kyron, especially under the circumstances he was in. Why couldn't he have just taken care of Kyron until Desiree was in a better position to take care of her son, i mean it wasn't her fault she became so ill surely. I would definitely expect that from any ex i had. I am not bashing Kaine, but the laws in this country seem a bit odd to me is all. And also i don't know the extent of their story either, only bits and pieces we get from the media.
I also had my eldest son requesting to live with his dad, which was okay with me as long as it was okay with him, and his new wife and son. Everyone was in agreeance and so he went to live with his dad. All was okay for about 11 months and he then requested to come back home to me and his stepdad. I must say it was a good experience for him, and he never asked to go and live with his dad again. Reckoned that his stepmother blamed him for things as far as things with his half brother, because he was the eldest.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I must say personally i find it strange that a mother does not get full custody in this country as opposed to where i am from. I went through a divorce very early in my life, and the courts there always give the biological mother full custody, with the paternal father getting access to any children. The only reason the court will not grant full custody to the mother is if she is not mentally capable of taking care of her child or children, as in drug abuse or mental illness etc. To me it also seemed only right that the mother should be able to get full custody, she is the one that carries a pregnancy for 9 months and gives birth. No matter how bonded a father is to his children, it is nothing like the bond between mother and child. This is why i find it difficult to comprehend as to why Kaine got the custody of Kyron, especially under the circumstances he was in. Why couldn't he have just taken care of Kyron until Desiree was in a better position to take care of her son, i mean it wasn't her fault she became so ill surely. I would definitely expect that from any ex i had. I am not bashing Kaine, but the laws in this country seem a bit odd to me is all. And also i don't know the extent of their story either, only bits and pieces we get from the media.
I also had my eldest son requesting to live with his dad, which was okay with me as long as it was okay with him, and his new wife and son. Everyone was in agreeance and so he went to live with his dad. All was okay for about 11 months and he then requested to come back home to me and his stepdad. I must say it was a good experience for him, and he never asked to go and live with his dad again. Reckoned that his stepmother blamed him for things as far as things with his half brother, because he was the eldest.

Most of the time in this country mothers do get custody and fathers only see their kids every other weekend. The Horman case isn't really typical at all and has all kinds of weird circumstances.

Kaine had custody, I presume, because Desiree felt she couldn't care for Kyron due to health problems. I think she also moved out of the country for a while.

Years have gone by and Desiree could have sought custody again, but as far as we know, she didn't until lately.

I don't judge Kaine or Desiree for their lifestyle choices, even if I don't agree with some of them. There was pressure on everyone involved, but the biological parents (Kaine included) are also victims in this case and nothing they did was directly responsible for Kyron's disappearance.

Hindsight is always 20-20. Of course Kaine and Desiree will always wish they had done everything differently. Anyone going through grief has survivor's guilt.

Kaine and Desiree weren't responsible for TH's "extreme hatred" of Kyron, nor for her weird behavior. I think Terri was "extremely" good at pretending. She pretended to be so "concerned" about Kyron, but she also pretended to love her husband, and that was a lie too.

 

[Jo in Calif]

(((((ReVampz)))))

None of us have walked in your shoes and your situation, as you said, sounds very unique. I'm glad you got some professional help to deal with what must have been some incredibly difficult feelings.

You were very brave to share this and I appreciate you doing so. As I have said before, blended families are exremely difficult in many cases- sometimes things work out well, but more often most of the relationships suffer.

Thank you for sharing your experience. The more points of view we have the better.

Imo This is where we will find the root of this case.
All of the complicated scenarios that people have been coming up with, human trafficking, under ground tunnels and whatever the mind can come up with.
IMO When this all comes out, it will be because of this very blended family.
The only one to blame for what happened, will be the one that committed the crime, not the one's that should have, would have or could have.

 

[kappy50]

Imo This is where we will find the root of this case.
All of the complicated scenarios that people have been coming up with, human trafficking, under ground tunnels and whatever the mind can come up with.
IMO When this all comes out, it will be because of this very blended family.
The only one to blame for what happened, will be the one that committed the crime, not the one's that should have, would have or could have.

Jo..good point..there a whole lotta passengers on this bus...

 

[Jo in Calif]

Jo..good point..there a whole lotta passengers on this bus...

Imo This is where we will find the root of this case.
All of the complicated scenarios that people have been coming up with, human trafficking, under ground tunnels and whatever the mind can come up with.
IMO When this all comes out, it will be because of this very blended family.
The only one to blame for what happened, will be the one that committed the crime, not the one's that should have, would have or could have.

I also wanted to add to this that is IMO that the one to blame is the one with the extreme hatred for Kyron and I also feel is the one that committed the crime.

 

[LillyRush]

My guess is because Kaine loves his son and parents who love their children often want that child to continue living with them and seeing them every day as they have for the past 6 years.

I'm not sure why it has to be more complicated than that. If any of us was asked to give up custody of one of our children, would we be okay with that and hand our child over? I've never heard any parent I know say they would hand over their 7 year old child if asked, if they didn't absolutely have to.

In a normal situation, sure, it could be simplified down to that. However, it certainly is/was more complicated than that. Significant information was withheld and that info concerns the very same person who is now - at least among the parents if not also by LE - being pegged as the main focus of the investigation into Kyron's disappearance. Desiree now, last we knew, is not even speaking to Kaine as a result of these "extreme hatred" emails among other things coming to light. So, no, I don't think it was that simple and I am only guessing but I don't think Desiree does either.

Of course, the other option for Kaine was for him to have divorced Terri, if she was as bad as he was saying and he had proof. He then could have just continued on with custody of Kyron and Baby K. As far as we know, he was not in the process of divorcing. But, hey, who knows what else might come to light in the future?

edited for comment

 

[SmoothOperator]

Kaine did not want to give up custody, so he wasn't going to give Desiree any information about what was going on in that house. So she would not have any ammunition with which to fight him. She only knew that Kyron wwas sad and going through a bad time.

Very nicely summed up, cluciano! I say BINGO! This is the exact reason....

 

[Curious Me]

As a parent there's many times you've got to determine you're leaving your child with good people. Most of us would pull our children out of a daycare or childcare situation that was threatening to them. Also true, many times the children can't express in words that they don't want to go back there. It's up to the parent to look closely for signs your child is unhappy for some reason in that environment.

Desiree has voiced remorse in not doing more to help Kyron out of that home situation. Has Kaine said anything about that? Would Kyron feel safe enough to plead with his Dad to go live away from Terri?

 

[scotslass]

As a parent there's many times you've got to determine you're leaving your child with good people. Most of us would pull our children out of a daycare or childcare situation that was threatening to them. Also true, many times the children can't express in words that they don't want to go back there. It's up to the parent to look closely for signs your child is unhappy for some reason in that environment.

Desiree has voiced remorse in not doing more to help Kyron out of that home situation. Has Kaine said anything about that? Would Kyron feel safe enough to plead with his Dad to go live away from Terri?

I believe from day one Kaine has voiced remorse about not being able to protect Kyron. He has stated countless times he had no idea things were as bad as they were. Kaine was aware of Kyron asking to stay at his moms but explained he saw it as a transitional thing at the time.

"He acknowledged the boy's unhappiness about moving between the two homes. Kyron would be unhappy about it, but Kaine said he considered the child's behavior a normal part of separation anxiety.

He and Desiree spoke about the child's emotions but Kaine said it was not something he thought required a change in custody arrangements. At the end of the summer when Kyron returned to Medford for a weekend, he said he would rather stay in Portland, Kaine said."

http://www.kgw.com/home/Kaine-Horman-Terri-Horman-master-of-deception-108218104.html

He also made these statements..


"Kaine Horman went on to call his estranged wife “a master of deception and misdirection.”
“We’re doing anything we can to discover, 'Who is this person we've been around?' It's not the person we thought it was. It's a completely different person living a separate life,” Kaine Horman says.
He said things were so tense with Terri Horman that Kyron would call his mother, Desiree Young, and ask to live with her.
“She and I were getting into arguments all the time about her relationships with the children in general and how I wasn’t finding it acceptable," Kaine Horman says."

http://www.kptv.com/news/25797873/detail.html

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder what Kaine told Desiree that made her so sure she couldn't get custody; I find it hard to believe that he just said "no" and she said "okay."

 

[krowdkat]

I wonder what Kaine told Desiree that made her so sure she couldn't get custody; I find it hard to believe that he just said "no" and she said "okay."

All I can say as a 40 something mother of 2 twenty somethings (and I didn't have custody of them since they were 2 and 3), the court deems stability and continuity as the major factor in who gets full custody. In other words, since Kyron had lived at his dad's full time for 5 years without any "known" complications, the court would be hard pressed to change the arrangement meaning to uproot the child. From the courts/judge standpoint, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

All Desiree had to do is make a phone call to any competent lawyer who specialized in family/custody law and she would have been advised to be prepared to spend at least 6 figures on legal fees, court dates, psychological evaluations, etc, etc, etc, and then she probably would have been told that Ky gets to stay with Kaine. Then she would have to weigh this effect on her beautiful child who she was seeing on a regular bases, anyways.

I lost custody of my two babies when I was in my early 20s because my ex and his family had money and lawyers in the family. I didn't do anything wrong. I was just out numbered financially and legally. In the end, it didn't effect my relationship with my children (thank goodness), but all the legal wrangling and tugging on them has had a significant impact on who they are as adults.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I wonder what Kaine told Desiree that made her so sure she couldn't get custody; I find it hard to believe that he just said "no" and she said "okay."

I'm just guessing but my bet would be that KH knew that Oregon law gives great weight to stability and not disrupting a child's life with unnecessary changes in custody.

I'm guessing that he told DY that she could never win custody, DY spoke to a family law attorney and found out that KH was correct. And that it was highly unlikely that she could succeed in court, given what she knew about what was going on (which was apparently next to nothing; she lived six hours away).

What DY probably saw was the prospect of spending lots of money on evaluations and legal fees only to lose in court anyway. And that would also have strained whatever civility the two of them had left, perhaps beyond fixing.

I also wonder if KH ever considered getting a transfer to another Intel site that would have placed even more distance between DY and Kyron than there already was.

I get the feeling from watching DY's interviews that before Kyron disappeared, she felt like she was getting the best arrangement she could. That she was aware that she could lose a lot if she rocked the boat, so to speak.

Ever since the interviews fairly near the beginning where KH and DY gave very different versions of the end of their marriage, I've been wondering how long DY was going to continue to bite her tongue and cooperate with KH. It was clear there was a lot of unhappy history between the two of them.

 

[ThoughtFox]

As a parent there's many times you've got to determine you're leaving your child with good people. Most of us would pull our children out of a daycare or childcare situation that was threatening to them. Also true, many times the children can't express in words that they don't want to go back there. It's up to the parent to look closely for signs your child is unhappy for some reason in that environment.

Desiree has voiced remorse in not doing more to help Kyron out of that home situation. Has Kaine said anything about that? Would Kyron feel safe enough to plead with his Dad to go live away from Terri?

I think it's a big assumption that Kyron would have been "safe" if Desiree had primary custody.

Kaine was never going to completely give up custody to her, so really Terri made a huge error in judgement in appealing to Desiree and trying to bypass her own husband. It's actually kind of ridiculous.

Kyron had two biological parents and there was no need for either of them to give up custody.

Living with Desiree might or might not have spared Kyron. I think that's a slippery slope because Kaine still would have had partial custody and therefore Kyron would have had to live with Terri at some point whether Desiree had primary custody or not.

There's just no proof that Kaine was going to divorce Terri before all this happened, so I think that's an unfounded rumor. Therefore, if TH was still unhappily married, Kyron might have been in just as much danger no matter who had primary custody. She couldn't avoid being around Kyron forever.

 

[ami]

In a normal situation, sure, it could be simplified down to that. However, it certainly is/was more complicated than that. Significant information was withheld and that info concerns the very same person who is now - at least among the parents if not also by LE - being pegged as the main focus of the investigation into Kyron's disappearance. Desiree now, last we knew, is not even speaking to Kaine as a result of these "extreme hatred" emails among other things coming to light. So, no, I don't think it was that simple and I am only guessing but I don't think Desiree does either.

Of course, the other option for Kaine was for him to have divorced Terri, if she was as bad as he was saying and he had proof. He then could have just continued on with custody of Kyron and Baby K. As far as we know, he was not in the process of divorcing. But, hey, who knows what else might come to light in the future?

edited for comment

The case is complicated, but that doesn't mean Kaine's desire to keep his child had to be complicated. As he's stated many times, he didn't know his home was unsafe. He didn't know. He does now, but he didn't then. He said that in direct response to people questioning why he remained in the marriage when clearly there were issues. He said the issues he saw were not the issues that have come to light since Kyron's abduction. Therefore he believed he was in a struggling marriage but otherwise normal home life in which he did not expect his children were endangered. Which makes him a pretty average parent, IMO.

I think it's similar with Desiree. Now, knowing all she knows and with Kyron missing, she says she wanted custody back and there were a lot of red flags, Terri calling her and saying Kyron should live with Desiree, or that Kyron was upset and needed her - but as far as we know, she never filed for a change in custody. IMO, that makes sense just like Kaine's lack of divorce makes sense - because in the moment, neither of them knew what they were really dealing with. I think most of us give Desiree a pass for that reason - because clearly she's grieving and had she known then what she knows now, obviously she'd have gone into whatever debt was necessary to legally yank Kyron out of that home... but she didn't. Like Kaine didn't divorce, like Kaine didn't consider giving up his child, like Desiree didn't press the issue... because they didn't know he was actually in danger.

I don't think it's unexpected now for both of them to be blaming themselves and perhaps even blaming each other, as well as Terri. Even married parents of children who are abducted or murdered usually divorce, because of the complicated guilt and grief. I think it's even more likely a divorced couple who had their share of resentments even before this time would go through similar stages of grief and blame.

My own issue as far as the emails go surround the people who knew that Terri "hated" Kyron - if that was an interpretation of the emails that anyone would have upon reading them. I wonder if they were sent to someone who had similar issues with step children that she felt comfortable complaining to?

 

[cluciano63]

If I was Desiree, I would not be able to forgive Kaine for not letting her know that Terri was drinking, having problems, etc. Even if Kyron had not disappeared and I found this out, I don't think I could forigve, knowing that he had children, including mine, in a house with a woman with a drinking problem, mental/emotional issues, etc. Whether it is logical or not...with Terri's past history, any hint of alcohol abuse should have been cause for more than normal concern.