Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[CDS22]

IWannaKnow provided an excellent description of a possible scooter accident scenario from the 2nd floor hallway in the general threads #231, Thread 11:



The scooter scenario includes provides an answer for Rebecca's statement that he was not allowed to ride the scooter in the upstairs hallway as well as why for the scooter to be found on top of his shin.

It's heartbreaking however Max's accident happened. My heart goes out to his family.

I doubt JS would allow his son to do something unsafe. He was a good father by all accounts. And if we suppose that little Max was so misbehaved that he snuck a scooter into the home and hauled it all the way up the stairs, how in the world could he do that without RZ hearing him?

I'm sure the scene was staged and that the time it took to stage it was critical in getting the child oxygen, which he obviously didn't have.

 

[elfie]

I doubt JS would allow his son to do something unsafe. He was a good father by all accounts. And if we suppose that little Max was so misbehaved that he snuck a scooter into the home and hauled it all the way up the stairs, how in the world could he do that without RZ hearing him?

I'm sure the scene was staged and that the time it took to stage it was critical in getting the child oxygen, which he obviously didn't have.

JS was not there at the time. The scooter was reported to have been last seen in the hallway.

Still, heartbreaking, so completely heartbreaking.

 

[CDS22]

JS was not there at the time. The scooter was reported to have been last seen in the hallway.

Still, heartbreaking, so completely heartbreaking.

So if JS wasn't there and wouldn't allow the scooter, who did? And how could a scooter get in the house without someone hearing the clamor it would make?

 

[elfie]

So if JS wasn't there and wouldn't allow the scooter, who did? And how could a scooter get in the house without someone hearing the clamor it would make?

What type of scooter are you imagining? Not at all a moped type deal--more like a two wheeled skateboard with a handlebar, from the information that has been given.

 

[October]

Just throwing out some thoughts here-

I don't think we know what kind of scooter this was, do we? I would be willing to bet that it was a Razor scooter. My daughter is 5 1/2 and those are the scooters that are popular among her friends. They are very lightweight, only 6 lbs according to Amazon. That would not be enough to take down a chandelier, but it would be light enough to possibly get stuck in one.

What if someone was angry that the scooter was upstairs again and threw it downstairs, but got it caught in the chandelier instead? Maybe they couldn't get it down so they thought they would wait until they had help to do it. If Max was an adventurous child, he may have thought he could jump and knock it down. If he jumped and grabbed at the chandelier, that may have been enough to bring the chandelier, and the scooter, crashing down on him,

Anyone know if the physics would support this theory? A little boy who thought he could hang from a chandelier and then jump to another part of the stairs? This could explain why Rebecca would feel guilty, if she was responsible for getting the scooter up there and then leaving it, never imagining that Max would try to get it down himself when her back was turned.

 

[jjenny]

There was a rumor earlier that Max got a ball stuck in the chandelier and was trying to reach it when he fell. As you recall the ball was also found next to Max.

 

[elfie]

My sons have scooters and they can be awkward to carry as well as make noise from the wheels. I can't imagine RZ wouldn't hear the door open and close as the child carried in a scooter, if that is what happened, especially since the house had an alarm system and the door would beep with each opening. Even if the alarm was shut off, the door would still beep (not sound an alarm but merely beep). So I don't buy the scooter story. If someone ran out to the garage to bring in a scooter to stage something while a child was badly in need of oxygen and medical attention, that is deplorable.

I don't think anything could really help ease the pain and anguish of a family that has lost their youngest son under circumstances that have not been fully explained to their satisfaction, but demonstrating that it very well could have been an explainable horrendous accident, would be better than to be left with the overriding concern that it was an intentional act.

I don't know how distraught Rebecca was at the time, or if it prevented her from performing CPR continuously from the time that she found him, until the moment that she realized that EMS had arrived.

My objective here is to help find an explanation that fits the information that has been provided. The extent of his injuries certainly could have interfered with successful CPR since it took specific medical equipment and quite a bit of time for EMS to bring Max out of cardiac arrest.

I can only imagine the pain the family must be enduring, compounded by the sentiment that much more could have been done in those critical initial moments. I'm so sorry for the loss of Max. I send my prayers for their pain to be assuaged and my deepest condolences.

 

[SunnieRN]

RZ allegedly worked in a laser surgery office and assisted during surgery. Wouldn't she have been trained in CPR if she assisted in surgeries?

We have no idea what Rebecca's job entailed, or if she assisted in surgery. Maybe she did more of the pre surgery eye drops, fitting contacts etc. I asked the people I know, who work in eye clinics, and made a trip to where I purchase my glasses. None of them are cpr certified. Zero.

Just as an afterthought. Wonder if that is where/how she met JS?

Thank you for the correction. I am new here and just getting familiar with the rules.

Here is my correction:

RZ did not do CPR on MS from the time they phoned from help until help arrived because the AR says they found her calling MS and not performing CPR. CPR was, however, performed by paramedics for 25-30 minutes:

.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/10/rebecca-zahau-case-max-shacknai-autopsy-review/

First off, re read the LE report, vs hinky meter. Secondly, I have stated this prior, that it took ems 25 minutes, with drugs and equipment to get Max's heart restarted. Even if Rebecca knew and performed PERFECT cpr, it would have been inadequate in this incident.

The LE report states Rebecca did perform cpr. My question, why didn't the LE officer help her? I can fully understand if she was doing cpr for her to stop and yell out Max's name. How scary/upsetting do you think this would have been for Rebecca?

Sorry, but until someone you know is in that situation, you can not say what you would do. Not unless you have been there and done that prior.


<MODSNIP>

Here you go:



http://abcnews.go.com/US/spreckels-mansion-death-boy-max-schacknai-dies/story?id=14097880

That says fall from the stairs, not fall down the stairs.

 

[CDS22]

Here's another thing that's odd. Max appears to have face planted because it appears he didn't use his hands to protect his face, doesn't it? And wouldn't that mean he had to have been unconscious before he hit the floor? This is my opinion, of course, but something isn't right. Even if he fell from a railing onto the floor, the angle would not have been correct for hitting or grabbing the chandelier unless something or someone hurled him across. The railing was too high and the boy too short for any other explanation. This, of course, is my opinion.

 

[CDS22]

There was a rumor earlier that Max got a ball stuck in the chandelier and was trying to reach it when he fell. As you recall the ball was also found next to Max.

A.) It would be impossible for a child that short with a railing that high to reach the chandelier, even if he stood on the railing.

B.) Let's supposed a ball did hit the chandelier. Wouldn't RZ surely have heard the clatter it would make.

C.) Why do the theories keep changing in this case? The Zahau family lawer said Max fell from "planking", even though there is no proof of that. We've also heard his last breath said "Ocean" even though he couldn't breathe with the kind of injuries he sustained.

 

[CDS22]

Just throwing out some thoughts here-

I don't think we know what kind of scooter this was, do we? I would be willing to bet that it was a Razor scooter. My daughter is 5 1/2 and those are the scooters that are popular among her friends. They are very lightweight, only 6 lbs according to Amazon. That would not be enough to take down a chandelier, but it would be light enough to possibly get stuck in one.

What if someone was angry that the scooter was upstairs again and threw it downstairs, but got it caught in the chandelier instead? Maybe they couldn't get it down so they thought they would wait until they had help to do it. If Max was an adventurous child, he may have thought he could jump and knock it down. If he jumped and grabbed at the chandelier, that may have been enough to bring the chandelier, and the scooter, crashing down on him,

Anyone know if the physics would support this theory? A little boy who thought he could hang from a chandelier and then jump to another part of the stairs? This could explain why Rebecca would feel guilty, if she was responsible for getting the scooter up there and then leaving it, never imagining that Max would try to get it down himself when her back was turned.

I wonder how the chandelier was attached? Our chandliers (in every home I've lived in) have had to be bolted, and in fact, have been bolted in the attic in some instances. We can't remove them ourselves. We've had to hire someone to get it down (for cleaning or to change it). I can't imagine even a child of Max's weight bringing it down, or more importantly, how he'd get to it from the angle it was hanging.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

There was a rumor earlier that Max got a ball stuck in the chandelier and was trying to reach it when he fell. As you recall the ball was also found next to Max.

Do we know how far out the chandelier hung from the banister railing? It doesn't seem right it would be right up close. Wouldn't it be centered more in the foyer area on the first floor?

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I wonder how the chandelier was attached? Our chandeliers (in every home I've lived in) have had to be bolted, and in fact, have been bolted in the attic in some instances. We can't remove them ourselves. We've had to hire someone to get it down (for cleaning or to change it). I can't imagine even a child of Max's weight bringing it down, or more importantly, how he'd get to it from the angle it was hanging.

Ones that big are awfully heavy and I am sure it was braced and bolted into the ceiling connections and may have been braced to a overhead stud. The chain also would be a heavy guage since it has to support the weight of the chandelier.

IMO

 

[SunnieRN]

Oh yes, we never saw the ceiling after the fall, correct? Was there a hole in the ceiling where the chandelier had broken through?

 

[CDS22]

True, but the deaths together are what led to these discussions. Any links to whether or not LE did studies to determine how a chandelier could have falled from Max's weight? I haven't seen anything about that?

Not only can I not find proof of such a study (which is no way means it did not happen. They might be holding some information closely, or they might not), but it seems RZ's sister cleaned up the broken chandelier and was "injured" (according to what RZ told the dog person), then got a plane to go home.

I want to specify that I'd clean up broken glass in my home immediately, too. I just wonder if authorities took pictures of the area, or if they even thought to do it. I would think that they would and should, if they saw a child that severely injured and not breathing, but I've not heard that they did.

 

[SunnieRN]

Not only can I not find proof of such a study (which is no way means it did not happen. They might be holding some information closely, or they might not), but it seems RZ's sister cleaned up the broken chandelier and was "injured" (according to what RZ told the dog person), then got a plane to go home.

I want to specify that I'd clean up broken glass in my home immediately, too. I just wonder if authorities took pictures of the area, or if they even thought to do it. I would think that they would and should, if they saw a child that severely injured and not breathing, but I've not heard that they did.

I would also clean up glass immediately and the pictures/lack or pictures, is why I question the thoroughness of the investigations.

 

[Plumeria5]

I've been looking at the photo of the staircase trying to imagine scenarios of what happened to Max. It is very plausible that Max somehow got the ball caught on the chandelier and he was trying to get it down. I believe there were 2 balls beside Max after his fall. If that is correct he might have used another ball to try to hit it and make the other one come loose. Perhaps that didn't work so he used something else to try to get a hold of the chandelier and pull it closer to him. The scooter? May be far fetched but lets say he tried to use the handle of the scooter, got it caught on the chandelier, and so tried to climb up on the rail. When he fell his weight, plus the scooter hooked onto the fixture, caused it to fall with the scooter. I agree that although there are codes for installing fixtures often they are not up to code and shortcuts are taken.

 

[Morag]

911 was called at 1010am and apparently LE arrived at 1012- not unusual, considering the size of Coronado. And Max was taken to the local hospital by 1035- it's only a couple of minutes from their home. JS has been said to have met them there, and at some point it was said that he had been at the gym (I'm pretty sure I would never find that, so can't provide a link at this time).

Apparently they used the gym at the Del- practically next door-as well as Hollywood Fitness, which is also quite close. If that's where JS was, why didn't he meet up with the others at home while Max was being 'worked on'?

Of course, he may not have been at the gym, or he may have been at another one farther away. But if that's where he was, why did it take him so long to get to his child? I'm not criticizing him, just wondering where he was.

 

[tiredblondy]

Here's another thing that's odd. Max appears to have face planted because it appears he didn't use his hands to protect his face, doesn't it? And wouldn't that mean he had to have been unconscious before he hit the floor? This is my opinion, of course, but something isn't right. Even if he fell from a railing onto the floor, the angle would not have been correct for hitting or grabbing the chandelier unless something or someone hurled him across. The railing was too high and the boy too short for any other explanation. This, of course, is my opinion.

Not if he was using the scooter while stretching and leaning precariously over the railing to knock the ball out of the chandelier and the dog jumped on him causing him to lose his balance.

 

[SophieRose]

Not if he was using the scooter while stretching and leaning precariously over the railing to knock the ball out of the chandelier and the dog jumped on him causing him to lose his balance.

So the dog also knocked the scooter over the banister?