Discussion Thread #61 ~ the appeal~

[lithgow1]

.....too scared to put the light on but not enough to go off screaming in the dark..........to face the unknown !!

I know. It`s just such a crock. I don`t disbelieve that someone can mistake someone for an intruder and shoot them - it has happened quite often - but this particular story with it`s myriad weak points and improbabilities, nah, I don`t buy it at all.

 

[Colin de France]

...i don't know the in's and out's of SA law but i do know that in most countries the act of self defense has to be in proportion to the attack, secondly as mentioned above the fact that he coudn't hear after the first shot leaving no chance for the intruder to be heard, is without doubt excessive use of force...... therefore it's murder......otherwise accept the screams and it's murder anyway ...

 

[Colin de France]

I know. It`s just such a crock. I don`t disbelieve that someone can mistake someone for an intruder and shoot them - it has happened quite often - but this particular story with it`s myriad weak points and improbabilities, nah, I don`t buy it at all.

...what if she did phone the police only to find out it was nothing.......just taking people for idiots...

 

[aftermath]

...what if she did phone the police only to find out it was nothing.......just taking people for idiots...

What do you mean?

 

[Colin de France]

What do you mean?

........ in English then....what if Reeva did phone the police as Pistorius asked her to do so and it turned out to be imagination or the cat, how silly they would of looked......in other words if you heard a noise in the middle of the night, would your first reaction be to phone the police.........

 

[aftermath]

........ in English then....what if Reeva did phone the police as Pistorius asked her to do so and it turned out to be imagination or the cat, how silly they would of looked......in other words if you heard a noise in the house in the middle of the night, would your first reaction be to phone the police.....

No need for the sarcasm!

It would depend on the noise, I would have thought. If I heard the noise of a window being slid open at three in the morning, then yes, maybe!

 

[Colin de France]

........which reminds me, didn't they have internal security and an alarm............it's getting worse all the time ....and i can do one better than that, he just shut the sliding door which would of created a draught which could of moved a window.......but no it had to be an intruder.....

 

[aftermath]

........which reminds me, didn't they have internal security and an alarm............it's getting worse all the time ....and i can do one better than that, he just shut the sliding door which would of created a draught which could of moved a window.......

A draught could slide a window open?! I'm not convinced that's the first thought that would jump to mind for many people.

 

[Colin de France]

A draught could slide a window open?! I'm not convinced that's the first thought that would jump to mind for many people.

.....rattled...or a door...

 

[GR_Turner]

......i don't find anything funny about it at all....even if only one honest person heard a womans screams which concluded with an execution of a woman at exactly the same moment, that would be enough for me......

And if one other honest person heard a woman crying (and thought it was a baby crying earlier) at the same time, you would still be sure it was screams? And if there was no doubt that another witness made a mistake about hearing a female? And if other witnesses heard high pitched male crying and the phones evidence also could place these cries at the same time as the screams, all this would leave you just as convinced. I can see that there's no point trying to discuss this with you though if you really don't see the problem with your argument.

 

[GR_Turner]

.....for a start the defense is wrong and secondly i find your post more than distasteful.....you show a complete lack of respect for the murder victim......what do you think she went ran into the toilet for ? ....what do you think she screamed for in the middle of the night.....you're on a losing battle if you haven't already lost...

It's only distasteful if you find someone disagreeing with you distasteful. I don't think any of that happened. I think she probably did just go to the toilet and he never thought she could have left the room without him seeing and so jumped to the wrong conclusion.

 

[aftermath]

.....rattled...or a door...

??Whether a draught rattled a window or a door- if it sounded like a window being slid open at three in the morning, I would think the window was being slid open and would definitely consider calling for help...

 

[Colin de France]

And if one other honest person heard a woman crying (and thought it was a baby crying earlier) at the same time, you would still be sure it was screams? And if there was no doubt that another witness made a mistake about hearing a female? And if other witnesses heard high pitched male crying and the phones evidence also could place these cries at the same time as the screams, all this would leave you just as convinced. I can see that there's no point trying to discuss this with you though if you really don't see the problem with your argument.

.......and if ...and if.....just face it, Pistorius murdered Reeva.......

 

[Trotterly]

Either 1. OP has shot out of the window before the death shots or 2. Reeva could see him with his gun through a crack in the door or 3. Reeva heard the click of the gun or 4. OP announced with words that he would shoot now.
Please, choose something (multiple choice!!).
I'm sure Reeva knew early enough of the mortal danger to scream shrilly until she was dead. IMO

The point is that it is possible that Reeva could never have had time to scream on OP's version.

 

[Colin de France]

??Whether a draught rattled a window or a door- if it sounded like a window being slid open at three in the morning, I would think the window was being slid open and would definitely consider calling for help...

....ok, but why the police when there was internal security and an alarm.......come on now .....and Reeva would have to find the phone in the dark etc etc....and the fear of insecurity with a ladder against the wall and the window open and so on....and whilst all this was going on not even a whisper from Reeva........

 

[Trotterly]

Trotterly, now you are rubbishing claims that Reeva could possibly have screamed after the first shot to the hip because it doesn't fit with your OP is "innocent" belief?



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/23/oscar-pistorius-trial-murdered-reeva-steenkamp

Screaming would have been an involuntary act after being shot in the hip. It would have been abnormal not to scream out at the pain. But you've decided (because OP is innocent) that it didn't happen... despite reports to the contrary?? Hmm. The second shot missed, which gave Reeva time to register the pain before being blasted to death by her killer. Yet you still don't want to believe Reeva could have screamed out in pain, because it doesn't fit your theory. You seem to be altering evidence to back up your own beliefs.

But there is no evidence on shots/timing because it is impossible to know how quickly Reeva would have fallen. As Woolie said "no one knows what went on behind that door" This is important to match the wounds with the position of her body at any point in time.

If she fell as a dead weight then the gap could have been only about 0.3 seconds.

 

[lithgow1]

??Whether a draught rattled a window or a door- if it sounded like a window being slid open at three in the morning, I would think the window was being slid open and would definitely consider calling for help...

You say you would call for help. Me too. What did OP do? Well we all know the answer to that. Got his gun in a pitch dark room, didn`t check up at all on the love of his life, went screaming down a dark hallway towards that which terrified him, and pumped four bullets into a cubicle believing there was a human being on the other side of the door and yet his supporters maintain that it was self defence and justifiable, albeit a `stupid thing` to do. It is quite unbelievable to me that people can defend his actions but I guess it takes all sorts.

 

[Trotterly]

This kind of speculation is totally useless.

Reeva, as four witnesses all testified under oath, was already screaming in mortal fear BEFORE AND DURING the final shots. She is screaming in fear, not pain. Who is to say if she were in mid-scream at the time of the final head shot, that this scream could not have been heard simultaneously with the head shot and faded away immediately afterward? All Saayman said was that she would have taken no more than a few breaths after the head shot.

No witnesses testified that Reeva was screaming. The only voice identified that night was OP's.

Your version has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt to the exclusion of my version. It was not.

 

[aftermath]

....ok, but why the police when there was internal security and an alarm.......come on now .....

In some gated estates it has been security who were in on the break ins.

Also if the window heard opening had been outside of the 'safe room' bedroom-suite area, then setting off an alarm might be a good idea- alerting everyone around whilst remaining safely locked away from danger. The problem is the window that was heard indicated a breach of that safety-zone... To an extent I think it depends on what the alarm actually does if triggered and how to trigger it.

 

[Colin de France]

.....not being from a hot country can anyone tell me why there was need to bring a fan in from the outside and close the door, honestly can't see it .....