Do you think the other side of Cindy is worse than we think?

[hornswoggled]

We all have a "bad" side to us. Some can be pushed further than others before losing it. I think Cindy has been walking a fine line for a very long time between all her family members. She has consistently supported them financially and made a home for them. She was swimming against a huge tide. Who knows why she allowed Casey to keep taking and taking from her? I think she was hoping against hope that someday Casey would "change" and become a responsible adult and mother. I don't blame her for encouraging Casey to keep Caylee. No mother wants to see their child suffer the grief of giving away a child if they really don't have to.

Of course, she made mistakes. Who among us has not? But I do believe she loves her children. I hear Caylee singing, and reading with such animation. Somebody had to take the time and patience to teach her these things. I think that someone was Cindy. I look at the cute bubbly little girl and it's easy to see that she was nurtured and loved.

I think that Cindy finally reached her saturation point when Casey stole money from her G-parent's account. I'm sure there were many more reasons also. Cindy had enough. She threatened Casey with getting custody of Caylee and kicking her out of the house. We heard this much on one of the 911 calls when Cindy didn't realize she was being recorded. I think she was trying to jolt Casey back to reality. I feel Cindy was strong willed because she had to be for many reasons. How else could she continue to work, support and make time for her family?

Now we are seeing the "other" side of Cindy. A broken woman whose world has crumbled. I felt so badly for her when I watched the last jail video release. Casey still continued to bully her mother without a care about how she is suffering. Cindy was looking for the tiniest ray of hope that Caylee would somehow be returned. Casey crushed that hope. I saw a woman who was facing the realization that her own daughter may have been responsible for the murder of her child. It was very hard to watch. Regardless of what she may say publically, she knows the truth in her heart. I do not expect her to get on camera and admit what she feels inside. I do not have that right.

I cannot judge her, because I honestly have no idea how I would react in the same situation. I believe we are all looking to find a reason that this happened, but it is such a complex tangled mess that it would take the rest of our natural lives to understand . The end result is catastrophic. A jury of 12 has to reduce this to a simpler explanation and come up with a verdict. I would not want to serve on that jury.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Great post Hornswoggled.

 

[elissabee]

I think CA's behavior and reactions are pretty normal for a person living with KC and GA, one or both of whom I believe has some psychoaffective disorder. CA has always been the one to pick up the pieces when her daughter and/or husband screw up. She's got a lot on both of them. Maybe that's why they don't like to upset her.

 

[zoey]

*respectfully snipped

sorry but i don't see things that way at all. i see casey as the dominant force in that home, as bourne out by every transaction we've seen between her and her family. i don't think cindy was even able to control casey, much less be abusively controlling.
as for the adoption ... a supposed convo between casey and kio isn't something i put any faith in. kio couldn't have adopted anyway, she's far too young. it's all nonsense.

perhaps a power shift when kc had Caylee.......

 

[BetsyB]

I think that what Cindy is or is not is largely irrelevant to what Casey has become.

I think Casey created Cindy, not vice versa. Living with a sociopath is the most frustrating thing you can imagine. You do try to grasp control when you can. Sometimes you do boil over--it's incredibly stressful to have to interact, day after day, with someone who totally lacks any ability to interact meaningfully with others and who does not have a shred of empathy or care.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Not making a comment here, just an observation because I really don't know what goes on in their household behind closed doors, but I've noticed everyone in that family seems to be scared to death of making CA mad - wonder why that is? GA and LA both seem to have anger issues, I wonder if CA is even worse?

Excellent observation. We have seen Cindy rant and rage...with restraint, imo. I don't think we have seen her in all her "glory", but have only gotten snippets of it. The family has seen it repeatedly and they know how ugly things can get, imo.

 

[Marple]

I think that what Cindy is or is not is largely irrelevant to what Casey has become.

I think Casey created Cindy, not vice versa. Living with a sociopath is the most frustrating thing you can imagine. You do try to grasp control when you can. Sometimes you do boil over--it's incredibly stressful to have to interact, day after day, with someone who totally lacks any ability to interact meaningfully with others and who does not have a shred of empathy or care.

ITA with your post! :clap:

 

[suzet]

So many good posts here. In the beginning of the case, I felt so badly for Cindy & George. When they started the public delusional act, claiming Caylee was alive, and sticking by Casey's lies, I lost my faith in them. I couldn't believe some of the things they said and did. Now, months later, I am beginning to change my mind about them, especially Cindy, and believe me, it took all this time. I'm not saying she is not flawed or that she is right about anything, but I have come to understand her a little better. The posts below say it all, and this is just a sampling.

I think that what Cindy is or is not is largely irrelevant to what Casey has become.

I think Casey created Cindy, not vice versa. Living with a sociopath is the most frustrating thing you can imagine. You do try to grasp control when you can. Sometimes you do boil over--it's incredibly stressful to have to interact, day after day, with someone who totally lacks any ability to interact meaningfully with others and who does not have a shred of empathy or care.

:clap: :clap:

I think CA's behavior and reactions are pretty normal for a person living with KC and GA, one or both of whom I believe has some psychoaffective disorder. CA has always been the one to pick up the pieces when her daughter and/or husband screw up. She's got a lot on both of them. Maybe that's why they don't like to upset her.

:clap: :clap:

*respectfully snipped

sorry but i don't see things that way at all. i see casey as the dominant force in that home, as bourne out by every transaction we've seen between her and her family. i don't think cindy was even able to control casey, much less be abusively controlling.
as for the adoption ... a supposed convo between casey and kio isn't something i put any faith in. kio couldn't have adopted anyway, she's far too young. it's all nonsense.

:clap: :clap:

I certainly dont agree with CA on some of the thing she does in this case but no way do I blame her for the way KC is today.Did she enable her maybe but honestly IMO no matter what CA did it wouldnt of made a difference.KC still would be the same heartless person she is today.Its not always as simple as black and white sometimes people are simply evil and not even love of a parent can change them no matter how hard we try.JMO

:clap: :clap:

I can't believe I'm going to take up for Cindy but she hasn't murdered anyone. Choking her vile, hateful, thieving daughter isn't anywhere near as horrible as what that same daughter did to Caylee, an innocent child who couldn't defend herself and trusted the evil Casey.

No, Cindy may have her faults, she may have a temper, but dealing with Casey in a less than perfect manner doesn't make her the devil. Cindy is a complex person with many layers, unlike Casey who is truly Satanic.

Cindy was a fulltime mother to Caylee. She can't be all bad.

:clap: :clap:

no criticism meant but I am sick to death of hearing crap about the As. they might be delusional, they might be angry, they might be dysfunctional, they might have had their hearts, souls, privacy, and world ripped out of them and stomped on for 7 months. But they are not the monsters, casey is. and you can go all day long talking about how people were raised, well you know what? I was raised by far worse than the As and MY kids are in the kitchen dancing. There is nurture, but there is also nature. they did not make her who she is. some people make themselves who they are.

:clap: :clap:

 

[Blaise]

No, I don't think the other side of CA is worse. I think this poor lady has shown her absolute worst side in public, and I think the private side would be a quieter Cindy.

There is so much about this lady that I emphasize with. I, too, had a deadbeat husband. In 2003, I read my teenage daughter's diary and found out that her father was sexually molesting her. I called 911, and to make a *long* story short, he's now serving 15 years in prison, and my daughter never saw her father again, after diary day.

My income (theoretically) was cut in half on diary day, but all of a sudden, I had more money than I ever had in my life. I never knew how much he was sucking us dry, both emotionally and financially.

Because of my extreme guilt, I've made it way too easy for that teen who is now 22, and *this case* was a come to Jesus call for me. My daughter has spent four years working in a desultory fashion toward a two-year associates degree that wouldn't ever give her a job skill. She's now enrolled in a five-month CNA (Certified Nursing Assistant) program, and I've told her within six months, she'll be expected to pay some nominal rent and pay *all* of her own expenses.

I didn't do this in a fit of rage. I did this lovingly. And she took it well.

My daughter is the same age as KC. I am 3 yrs. older than CA.

Every decision I've made, I thought I was doing the right thing. I was mucking up my daughter's life royally, all in the name of love, by keeping her dependent on me. It is almost like because I didn't protect her when she was a child against her father, I'll make life very easy for her.

I had no idea; *everyone* was totally floored when they found out that this man did this. If you've never watched a stone cold sociopath in action, you'll never be able to understand their capacity to pull one over on you.

And my ex-husband was a police officer, too.

My mistakes have been Cindy's mistakes. My daughter was in counseling for only one year. She needs to be back in counseling, but the days when I could simply say, "get in the car, 'cause we're going for counseling" are over.

Believe me, I understand CA. But I'll be able to try to right my boat out of the public eye, and there will be no dead baby.

Blaise

 

[pirate]

Blaise, for months many of us have been trying to figure out what the "purpose" was in the horrible events surrounding Caylee's disappearance and death.

I'm of the opinion that with each black cloud there is a silver lining. That there is a grand plan and we have to muck through some deep **Stuff** sometimes to figure out what that plan is.

You sharing your story has shown me one of those reasons I have been seeking. I am so sorry you and your daughter have suffered the way you have. But I am very glad to see that somebody has looked at this story and saw parallels to their own life, mistakes and shortcomings- and made some changes and compelled others to make changes so their lives will be better.

I'm sure you are not the only one- but I thank you for being the first person I have seen who has shared.

 

[Blaise]

Pirate, even a blind pig finds an acorn, and I did some things right. I decided that very day (diary day) that the tragedy was not that 'everyone would know', the tragedy was that IT HAPPENED, and my daughter and I would be an open book, and cooperate fully with everyone -- sheriff's department investigators and solicitors (South Carolina's version of district attorneys) and Department of Social Service Workers and Therapists -- no holding back.

And while we don't announce it, I've encouraged my daughter to be open -- she is a survivor of incest. She did nothing wrong. If people know, they know.

And I am *not* saying that there was incest in the Anthony house. I simply don't know. But I think they are hiding something.

And yeah, I absolutely understand the first compulsion to keep this secret. People will know. People will judge. We will be looked upon differently.

But you know what I found? People can be kind. And it was blown away about how huge sexual abuse is. So many women came to me and said, "it happened to me".

Every damned family has skeletons in their closet. And there is nothing more healing than opening the door to that closet, taking the trash out, and letting fresh air blow in.

Blaise

 

[BetsyB]

If you've never watched a stone cold sociopath in action, you'll never be able to understand their capacity to pull one over on you.

Blaise, I'm so sorry you and your daughter had to endure this. What a nightmare.

You're absolutely right. It's impossible to grasp the ease with which sociopaths manipulate--and how difficult it is to stand up to it. They possess the ability to make even the most irrational things seem perfectly reasonable.

We all do the best we can with the situations life presents us---I just don't think anyone is equipped to constructively deal with a sociopath.

 

[suzet]

B/c I definetly do. I can't help but think she was an abusive control freak over Casey. I am not excusing Casey in any shape or form but I just notice that about Cindy. Like the fact that Casey wanted to give Caylee up for adoption and Cindy wouldn't let her do that. She was Casey's child not Cindy's so it should have been up to Casey to do what she wanted to do.

Well, I believe Casey is the control freak, not Cindy. Casey was out of control and did whatever she pleased, when she pleased. It would be impossible for Cindy to have any control at all over her. When she tried to control Casey, people call her a control freak. If she didn't, she was permissive. No matter what Cindy did, it didn't work with someone like Casey, so she ended up seeking professional help, a very sensible solution, imo.

Also, it WAS up to Casey whether or not to keep Caylee. She was over 18. The thing is, if Casey gave Caylee up for adoption, she knew that one of the people who might adopt the baby, would be Cindy. Casey couldn't have that. I imagine Cindy influenced her because Cindy couldn't imagine giving up her first grandchild, but this was Casey's decision alone and I wouldn't believe anything Casey said to Kio. If Casey was adamant about giving Caylee up, who knows, Cindy may have gone along with it for the simple fact that she knew her daughter was not ready for parenthood (understatement), their finances were already hanging by a thread, and wow, kids are expensive! Seems to me she stood by her daughter's decision to keep Caylee and loved the child very much.

There are other things to like almost like she controled Casey to the point where she made it so SHE was the to raise Caylee. I mean the woman was Caylee's, Grandmother yet she pretty much made/insisted that Caylee call her "Mommy". Like WTF is that about?

Cindy is the only one who WANTED to raise Caylee. Casey sure didn't. Casey's life revolved around when Cindy got home from work so Casey could take off and party with the clothes, makeup, shoes, purses, gas for her car, perfume, nail polish, tatoos, etc., all paid for using Cindy's hardworking cash. Perhaps, Cindy's control over Caylee had a lot to do with the suspicion that Casey was subjecting Caylee to undesirable situations like adult parties with drinking and drugs. Cindy may have been trying to make Casey "see the light" as in, Cindy is behaving more like a mother than Casey (which was SO true). Not excusing Cindy for the Mommy thing, but she was supporting the entire family, then coming home, and taking care of Caylee, with virtually no time to herself.

And then the night before Caylee died Cindy grabbed Casey by the neck. I don't know I just get this bad vibe from Cindy like she is ALMOST worse than Casey is.

Not sure how anyone can be worse than a murderer. Not only is Cindy not a murderer, she couldn't possibly fathom that her daughter was one, when Cindy left Caylee in Casey's care. If your parent is in assisted living and you find out your own daughter stole money from their account using a check the grandparents gave your daughter for her birthday, wow, no wonder Cindy lost it. She doesn't have a history of violence, she is a hard worker, and she single handedly kept that family and house afloat. So after just seeing your parent, frail and hanging on at the nursing home and knowing what your own daughter did to them, when Casey walks in the door, cold and uncaring, with Cindy wondering what other kind of cruel hateful things her daughter could do, who can blame her.

I think we are seeing the worst of Cindy and understandably so. Caylee saw another Cindy. That Cindy is all over the house, from the playhouse to the pool, to the clothes, the nurturing and love, I think that is who Cindy is deep down, she just has too many people depending on her. And believe me, a month ago, I would not have been saying all this. I have just come to understand her better recently.

 

[pirate]

Pirate, even a blind pig finds an acorn, and I did some things right. I decided that very day (diary day) that the tragedy was not that 'everyone would know', the tragedy was that IT HAPPENED, and my daughter and I would be an open book, and cooperate fully with everyone -- sheriff's department investigators and solicitors (South Carolina's version of district attorneys) and Department of Social Service Workers and Therapists -- no holding back.

And while we don't announce it, I've encouraged my daughter to be open -- she is a survivor of incest. She did nothing wrong. If people know, they know.

And I am *not* saying that there was incest in the Anthony house. I simply don't know. But I think they are hiding something.

And yeah, I absolutely understand the first compulsion to keep this secret. People will know. People will judge. We will be looked upon differently.

But you know what I found? People can be kind. And it was blown away about how huge sexual abuse is. So many women came to me and said, "it happened to me".

Every damned family has skeletons in their closet. And there is nothing more healing than opening the door to that closet, taking the trash out, and letting fresh air blow in.

Blaise

Bolded by me

Blaise, it sounds to me as if you did everything right. Don't sell yourself short.

I'm sure it's natural to question how you didn't know earlier- but I don't think that is uncommon. You can't be blamed for not taking action on something you were unaware of. I've heard time and time again that it's the hard times during which our true character really shines through. You have a tremendous character.

You sound like a wonderful mother. God Bless.

 

[pirate]

Well, I believe Casey is the control freak, not Cindy. Casey was out of control and did whatever she pleased, when she pleased. It would be impossible for Cindy to have any control at all over her. When she tried to control Casey, people call her a control freak. If she didn't, she was permissive. No matter what Cindy did, it didn't work with someone like Casey, so she ended up seeking professional help, a very sensible solution, imo.

Also, it WAS up to Casey whether or not to keep Caylee. She was over 18. The thing is, if Casey gave Caylee up for adoption, she knew that one of the people who might adopt the baby, would be Cindy. Casey couldn't have that. I imagine Cindy influenced her because Cindy couldn't imagine giving up her first grandchild, but this was Casey's decision alone and I wouldn't believe anything Casey said to Kio. If Casey was adamant about giving Caylee up, who knows, Cindy may have gone along with it for the simple fact that she knew her daughter was not ready for parenthood (understatement), their finances were already hanging by a thread, and wow, kids are expensive! Seems to me she stood by her daughter's decision to keep Caylee and loved the child very much.



Cindy is the only one who WANTED to raise Caylee. Casey sure didn't. Casey's life revolved around when Cindy got home from work so Casey could take off and party with the clothes, makeup, shoes, purses, gas for her car, perfume, nail polish, tatoos, etc., all paid for using Cindy's hardworking cash. Perhaps, Cindy's control over Caylee had a lot to do with the suspicion that Casey was subjecting Caylee to undesirable situations like adult parties with drinking and drugs. Cindy may have been trying to make Casey "see the light" as in, Cindy is behaving more like a mother than Casey (which was SO true). Not excusing Cindy for the Mommy thing, but she was supporting the entire family, then coming home, and taking care of Caylee, with virtually no time to herself.



Not sure how anyone can be worse than a murderer. Not only is Cindy not a murderer, she couldn't possibly fathom that her daughter was one, when Cindy left Caylee in Casey's care. If your parent is in assisted living and you find out your own daughter stole money from their account using a check the grandparents gave your daughter for her birthday, wow, no wonder Cindy lost it. She doesn't have a history of violence, she is a hard worker, and she single handedly kept that family and house afloat. So after just seeing your parent, frail and hanging on at the nursing home and knowing what your own daughter did to them, when Casey walks in the door, cold and uncaring, with Cindy wondering what other kind of cruel hateful things her daughter could do, who can blame her.

I think we are seeing the worst of Cindy and understandably so. Caylee saw another Cindy. That Cindy is all over the house, from the playhouse to the pool, to the clothes, the nurturing and love, I think that is who Cindy is deep down, she just has too many people depending on her. And believe me, a month ago, I would not have been saying all this. I have just come to understand her better recently.

Suzet, I agree with much of what you say. But Cindy needs to prove that by telling the whole truth unconditionally.

 

[Theonly1]

Yes, and there is usually a grain of truth in what she says, though it may be small, and she borrows things from others lives and experiences and weaves them into the story that she is telling at that moment. CA probably came home, confronted her about stolen money, KC tried to blow her off but CA was so embarrassed and angry that she wouldn't let her just walk away so she continues to argue with her. KC wants it to stop so she grabs CA by the throat, makes her usual threats, probably using Caylee to hold over her head, CA walks out, gets in her car and leaves. When KC recounts the argument, she makes herself the victim as usual and just flips what really happened to suit this. Maybe?

:waitasec:

Ya know what, you may have a point here.

We've seen CA battle it out with many varied protesters in moments of great anger and she's never physically attacked any of them. She's run her mouth and she's pointed her finger but she doesn't put her hands on them. Many times she even did a calming motion with her hands.

Maybe Casey was the one who got violent with CA and not the other way around. We've seen Casey clench her fists many times (in other videos as well as the newest released video--just see the times the older videos go to the "1 minute left" mark). Casey's lips narrow a thin line and she drops F bombs like a sailor on leave. She's the one who demonstrates an obvious anger issue.

Hmmmm...

 

[yolorado]

I don't think she is all bad. I wouldn't want to live with her, but she is just a flawed human being like all of us. Her and Casey have personality disorders and locked in a dynamic that Cindy could not see the possible outcome of. Did Cindy contribute to who Casey is by enabling her? Of course she did.

I think Cindy's lack of boundaries (part of the personality disorder) really contributed to Casey's issues, but that is not malicious on Cindy's part. She, again like the vast majority of us, is doing the best she is capable of with what she has to work with. Largely due to her own contributions she has next to no visible support system. In Casey's generation how many spoiled, enabled, never forced to take responsibility by their parents adults do you think there are? Fortunately very few of them are sociopaths that will kill someone they are suppose to care for. If overly permissive parenting and inablilty to see your kid for who they really are was a crime.....

The walking on eggshells I see the family do with Cindy is because is domineering and relentless. Control freaks rarely have control of those around them. They just have people that appear to be doing what the CF wants. George has gone behind her back. And you know Casey has.

Cindy with no boundaries- domineering, relentless, poor boundaries, difficult to get along with.

Casey with no boundaries- liar, thief, child killer.

I don't think Cindy is worse than Casey at all. Her families emails to each other and to her didn't seem to pull any punches and other than being blind to the hopelessness of her daughter they didn't accuse her of any fault in the matter.

PS- I grew up with a mother like Cindy-on-steroids. We had a violent relationship and in my experience Cindy is too old to be brawling with a 22 year old Casey. That tends to come to an end somewhere around 16-18 when the strength balance shifts. I don't see Casey taking a beating from someone she can hurt. Not sure I buy the choking incident as told. And if it did happen I don't see Casey as a fleeing victim.

Your post is very insightful. Cindy and Casey seem to have been cut from the same cloth. Their propensities were similar, but for some reason Casey went full blown and jumped into the abyss and Cindy didn't, although I do think the interaction between the two of them drove them both in very bad ways.

 

[suzet]

Suzet, I agree with much of what you say. But Cindy needs to prove that by telling the whole truth unconditionally.

Yes, I agree. Cindy needs to tell the whole truth. I am hoping beyond hope, that now that Cindy is not playing the Caylee is alive card any longer, that she will come to her senses and do what is right for Caylee. Pretending Caylee is alive publically may have been a good enough distraction for Cindy to not have to come to terms with Caylee being deceased (which I believe Cindy was probably 99.999% sure of since July 15), but now it's time for Cindy, George, and Lee to finally be honest. Caylee deserves that.

 

[Bev]

No, she's probably much nicer than we think.

 

[Janis396]

I think you can tell a lot by a person's relationships with their friends and family. Cindy seems to have ZERO friends that we've seen these past 6 months. If she does, none have really come forward to support her. Neither have any of her co-workers. Also, she seems to have contentious relationships with her family, namely her brother, and now her mother, as well.

I think Cindy is one of those very difficult, controlling people that is very hard to be around once you get a peek inside their personality. We all saw her in action during her interviews with LE and the FBI - SHE continually attempted to wrestle control away from them and dictate how things were going to go. I don't think most people can stand to be around her for very long because she's overwhelmingly bossy, domineering, and controlling of everyone she comes in contact with. It's always got to be HER way.