Do you think the other side of Cindy is worse than we think?

[tx_Dot]

I kind of go back and forth about how I feel about Cindy. From what AH, JG, and TL have said CA doesn't have any problem throwing Casey under the bus. CA had never met AH or TL until July 15, 2008 yet she told both of them what a thief Casey is. Of course she was telling them the truth but it's odd that CA airs her family's dirty laundry to people whom she just met.

Then in the police interviews with CA, she has no problem throwing other people under the bus including AH and JG. Cindy knows Casey stole from AH but still she is taking Casey's side.

And all of those media interviews/soundbites where Cindy badmouths LE and the media and how Cindy backpedals about Casey - those just drove me crazy!

Cindy strikes me as a very controlling person in her own right. But Casey is always manipulating her too. But I believe that CA didn't have anything to do with Caylee's disappearance and murder - that was all Casey's doing.

I do think that CA would have a hard time now putting on a public performance of supporting Casey though and that's why we don't see her in the media spotlight.

Keep in mind that on the 15th Cindy had just been out another 500 bucks on the stinky car, she had called/texted KC & gotten no response.......she was adding up all KC lies from (at least) the 1st of July (car impounded)......could be AH told CA about her money disappearing (when she went sleep-walking), plus I'm sure AH told her she hadn't seen Caylee either.....AH statement says they discussed other KC lies, on the way to Tony's.

I think Cindy had plenty of reasons to be PO'd by the time she found KC & then popped off to Tony.

I don't recall the date of Cindy's statement to LE, but in the first jail visit (I IRC) KC tells Cindy & George not to trust AH & JG....& as all know, KC LIES.

 

[2goldfish]

no criticism meant but I am sick to death of hearing crap about the As. they might be delusional, they might be angry, they might be dysfunctional, they might have had their hearts, souls, privacy, and world ripped out of them and stomped on for 7 months. But they are not the monsters, casey is. and you can go all day long talking about how people were raised, well you know what? I was raised by far worse than the As and MY kids are in the kitchen dancing. There is nurture, but there is also nature. they did not make her who she is. some people make themselves who they are.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Oh I hope I didn't come across as saying she was the devil. She isn't at all. Casey's choices were still her own, no matter how she was raised. I was simply trying to say that a lack of consequences, and allowing her lies to go unchallenged probably contributed to the person Casey has become. I think Cindy's heart has always been in the right place, even when her actions were not always what I would choose or agree with.

I wasn't aiming my comments toward anyone specifically. I was just saying if anyone in that family is demonic, it's Casey, not Cindy. I've seen monsters and I've seen good parents try to teach them right from wrong, but as for Casey, I don't think she's one who cares to learn right from wrong. It's her way or else.

I will say I found C&G's constant "sweetheart", "beautiful", "gorgeous", etc. to Casey a bit inappropriate considering the situation (that's not what my parent's would have called me had I murdered my daughter) but I think they were using those terms to calm her, to get information from her, because anything else they would have done would send her over the edge and she'd leave them with no answers (which that's what they got anyway). She threatened that enough during the jailhouse visits, "I'll hang up. I'll walk away." The grandparents were desperate to get info from her and were doing it the only way they knew how. Too bad it didn't work.

It's hell dealing with the devil himself. Through all those years of dealing with their own devil, they took care of and supported Caylee. Unfortunately, they had no idea their devil was a child killer.

My problem with Cindy is as TrY said. Cindy was willing to throw blame on anyone and everyone except the one person responsible for Caylee's death, Casey. She would have strung Jesse up right there when she was talking to the FBI and OCS detectives. She protects Casey at every turn, yet if you watch Cindy closely during the jail visits, she's looking deep into Casey's face and she KNOWS what the evil one has done. Cindy may be "controlling" but she didn't and couldn't control her murdering daughter. No one can control the devil.

Above it all, on July 15th, Cindy was faced with the cruelest reality of all, "there smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car". The most honest words she's spoken to LE or anyone else.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[doogiesgirl]

These two are two of a kind, I wouldn't want CA to be my mother, nor would I want KC as a daughter. They fed off each other, encourage each other, and destroy each other, a very toxic combo. MOO

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Did you read the neighbors statement about one of their arguement that he saw/heard ?

He said a screaming KC followed Cindy out the door, & that Cindy said nothing just, got in her car & left.

I haven't read that but I would believe it. We've seen with our very eyes how Cindy placates Casey to keep her temper in check (on the jailhouse tapes).

Can you imagine the guilt Cindy is dealing with now? Guilt because she didn't file for custody of Caylee like she wanted. Guilt because her own daughter killed her offspring.

 

[Brini]

B/c I definetly do. I can't help but think she was an abusive control freak over Casey. I am not excusing Casey in any shape or form but I just notice that about Cindy. Like the fact that Casey wanted to give Caylee up for adoption and Cindy wouldn't let her do that. She was Casey's child not Cindy's so it should have been up to Casey to do what she wanted to do.

There are other things to like almost like she controled Casey to the point where she made it so SHE was the to raise Caylee. I mean the woman was Caylee's, Grandmother yet she pretty much made/insisted that Caylee call her "Mommy". Like WTF is that about?

And then the night before Caylee died Cindy grabbed Casey by the neck. I don't know I just get this bad vibe from Cindy like she is ALMOST worse than Casey is.

I dunno.. I came from an abusive, control freak house, myself, and never stole or killed anybody. My dad gave my sis and mom black eyes (I was the "good" child). he also told me that if I ever tried to move out of the house, he'd have me committed.

So, my sister married to get out fo the house. I just moved.

 

[Brini]

I haven't read that but I would believe it. We've seen with our very eyes how Cindy placates Casey to keep her temper in check (on the jailhouse tapes).

Can you imagine the guilt Cindy is dealing with now? Guilt because she didn't file for custody of Caylee like she wanted. Guilt because her own daughter killed her offspring.

Not TOO much sympathy, here. She knew KC was an habitual criminal. I'm sure she never suspected that KC was a killer, but she DID know that KC had no sense of responsibility, and couldn't raise a goldfish. And, she didn't keep tabs on the situation.

I would not have let KC put me off with stories about being with "the nanny" whom I had never met.

On the other side, CA IS suffering a lot, for her errors of judgement.

 

[Brini]

I wasn't aiming my comments toward anyone specifically. I was just saying if anyone in that family is demonic, it's Casey, not Cindy. I've seen monsters and I've seen good parents try to teach them right from wrong, but as for Casey, I don't think she's one who cares to learn right from wrong. It's her way or else.

I will say I found C&G's constant "sweetheart", "beautiful", "gorgeous", etc. to Casey a bit inappropriate considering the situation (that's not what my parent's would have called me had I murdered my daughter) but I think they were using those terms to calm her, to get information from her, because anything else they would have done would send her over the edge and she'd leave them with no answers (which that's what they got anyway). She threatened that enough during the jailhouse visits, "I'll hang up. I'll walk away." The grandparents were desperate to get info from her and were doing it the only way they knew how. Too bad it didn't work.

It's hell dealing with the devil himself. Through all those years of dealing with their own devil, they took care of and supported Caylee. Unfortunately, they had no idea their devil was a child killer.

My problem with Cindy is as TrY said. Cindy was willing to throw blame on anyone and everyone except the one person responsible for Caylee's death, Casey. She would have strung Jesse up right there when she was talking to the FBI and OCS detectives. She protects Casey at every turn, yet if you watch Cindy closely during the jail visits, she's looking deep into Casey's face and she KNOWS what the evil one has done. Cindy may be "controlling" but she didn't and couldn't control her murdering daughter. No one can control the devil.

Above it all, on July 15th, Cindy was faced with the cruelest reality of all, "there smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car". The most honest words she's spoken to LE or anyone else.

That's all I'm saying.

Yes, CA DOES know. She is clearly, in her tentative and enabling way, rying to finagle information about Caylee out of KC, in the jailhouse tapes.

Cindy: "Did Caylee ever sleep over at Tony's?"

KC: "No! I wouldn't have Caylee stay with just ANYBODY!"

Cindy: "Are you sure?"


I'm pretty sure that the As thought KC had stashed Caylee with a friend, somewhere, and they could eventually, by wheedling and coddling and going along, get her to talk.

Maybe they should have named KC "Rhoda?" (Penmark)

 

[Brini]

no criticism meant but I am sick to death of hearing crap about the As. they might be delusional, they might be angry, they might be dysfunctional, they might have had their hearts, souls, privacy, and world ripped out of them and stomped on for 7 months. But they are not the monsters, casey is. and you can go all day long talking about how people were raised, well you know what? I was raised by far worse than the As and MY kids are in the kitchen dancing. There is nurture, but there is also nature. they did not make her who she is. some people make themselves who they are.

Exactly!

 

[Brini]

I agree that there are some people who are just born evil. But I have personal experience with a family member very similar to Casey. Even the same age. She was raised with no consequences...nothing was ever her fault. No empathy for anyone but herself. Lied, stole money from family, had trouble staying in school and keeping a job - despite being extremely bright, etc. They thought she had a personality disorder, and even had a doctor diagnose her as bi-polar. She is now in prison, and has been for 3 years. Best thing that could ever have happened to her. She has finally faced a consequence for her actions and it has truly changed her. This is someone I would have SWORN would never change. She is not on any medication and has not received any therapy - her diagnosis was clearly hogwash. Once there she realized nobody could bail her out of this jam, like they had in the past. She could whine all she wanted but it wouldn't make a difference. Now, she has come to the realization that she alone is responsible for the choices she makes. She has sincere remorse for what she has done, and has a completely different outlook on life. It didn't happen overnight, but the limits that were suddenly placed on her and the change in how she was treated made a completely different person out of her.

So that is why I sometimes feel that enabling Casey when she was growing up may, have played a key role in the person she is today.

I agree that thee are "bad seeds" in good, loving families, sometimes. And, I agree that enabling is a GREAT way to nurture and ripen sociopathy.

 

[Gypsy Road]

I used to think Cindy was as bad as KC, but now after seeing that video yesterday and reflecting upon her behavior over the last 6 or 7 months, I've changed my opinion. Don't get me wrong, Cindy doesn't deserve mother of the year award by any means. Cindy definitely has control issues, and she's either in total denial about KC or she's putting on a good act. But after watching how KC manipulates CA and GA, I'm beginning to think that CA is one of those mother's who loves her children TOO much....so much that she doesn't see their flaws and lets them get away with murder...literally! I have a friend like CA...same age too...50 y/o. She's on her second marriage and has a 7 year old son, and a 30 year old daughter from a previous marriage. Her daughter is by no means as bad as KC, but I have watched the daughter manipulate and lie to my friend, and my friend is TOTALLY oblivious to it. Example, the daughter lives in NYC..works as a bartender and partying and shopping is her life outside work. She IS NOT a student, yet says she is taking classes and mom BELIEVES her and sends tuition money every semester without fail. I have no clue what the girl does with the tuition money - prolly blows is on partying and more cute clothes. Also, the daughter has been "mugged" and "robbed" more times than I can count on both hands. She'll call home (Florida) and give some sob story to her mom that goes something like this "....Oh MOM! You will never believe this! I was MUGGED and ROBBED at gunpoint AGAIN on my way home from work last night! And oh gosh...you won't believe this but I had ALL of my money to pay my rent in my purse...CASH...and the robbers took ALL of it! I hadn't had a chance to deposit in my bank account and was just carrying it on me and now it's gone! I don't know what I'm going to do....the rent is due!" .....and her mom, my friend, BELIEVES her! She'll say...."Oh Sweetie! Honey, are you okay? How much money do you need, darling? I will wire it to you as soon as we get off the phone. I love you, honey....everything is going to be alright, sweetheart. I'm so sorry this keeps happening to you...are you SURE you are okay?" ....she hangs up and wires the daughter the money - and some extra. This keeps happening over and over again and my friend STILL doesn't have a clue. Hello!? Trust me, daughter is NOT getting mugged. I've spent many of time with her while in NYC and have hung out with her. Don't get me wrong, this girl is a lot of fun, very personable, cute as can be - all that - but she is a LOT like KC in some ways. She thinks NOTHING of taking advantage of her mom or her money. My friends son, sadly, is showing signs of being a master manipulator as well...crying and throwing a tantrum until my friend gives in (and she ALWAYS does)...he's SEVEN (7)! My friend has never believed in spanking, not even a slap on the hand - or putting a kid on restriction. She says children should have the same rights as adults (I really don't get that stmt - cause adults are punished too when they do something wrong - that's why we have police, laws, and the justice system!). My friend is one of the sweetest people I know. She just doesn't think people can be "bad" - and trusts everyone. She's sweet as can be, but a horrible mom because she's too easy on her children and they don't learn right from wrong. Reminds me of Cindy so much! Look at the way CA put her trust in KFN and MB - just willy nilly. She doesn't think people can be bad (oh wait...except LE). I'm gonna stop or this will turn into a rant. Basically, I think KC was a hand full growing up and CA did nothing to get control of the situation. I think she either turned the other way, or was just oblivious to it. Maybe she did try and controlling KC just couldn't be done and she gave up. Who knows. I don't however, think CA is as bad as KC. CA would never kill anyone.

 

[amyLynn]

I see is a mother that was over worked and over stressed with dead beat kids, a half a** husand, ailing parents and a granddaughter that she adored. I think she probably over tried to make things better for Caylee then what she could do for KC. Isn't that what grandparents are for... to spoil their grandchildren.

Look I am sure she and KC had conflict. It seems to me that CA's parents raised her right. I am sure they pushed or helped CA to get a nursing degree so that she could be a productive adult. I think this is what CA expected out of KC. I really don't feel comfortable blaming or pointing fingers at parents for their ADULT childrens action. I am guilt of it though. KC knew right from wrong.

Is she worse then what we thought... I don't think so. I think she is just the hub with all these spokes (GA, KC, LA, Parents, Job ect) coming out of her that EXPECTS and RELIES on her to manage EVERYTHING!

That how I feel about it too.

 

[eddeva]

B/c I definetly do. I can't help but think she was an abusive control freak over Casey. I am not excusing Casey in any shape or form but I just notice that about Cindy. Like the fact that Casey wanted to give Caylee up for adoption and Cindy wouldn't let her do that. She was Casey's child not Cindy's so it should have been up to Casey to do what she wanted to do.

*respectfully snipped

sorry but i don't see things that way at all. i see casey as the dominant force in that home, as bourne out by every transaction we've seen between her and her family. i don't think cindy was even able to control casey, much less be abusively controlling.
as for the adoption ... a supposed convo between casey and kio isn't something i put any faith in. kio couldn't have adopted anyway, she's far too young. it's all nonsense.

 

[impatientredhead]

I can't believe I'm going to take up for Cindy but she hasn't murdered anyone. Choking her vile, hateful, thieving daughter isn't anywhere near as horrible as what that same daughter did to Caylee, an innocent child who couldn't defend herself and trusted the evil Casey.

No, Cindy may have her faults, she may have a temper, but dealing with Casey in a less than perfect manner doesn't make her the devil. Cindy is a complex person with many layers, unlike Casey who is truly Satanic.

Cindy was a fulltime mother to Caylee. She can't be all bad.

I don't think she is all bad. I wouldn't want to live with her, but she is just a flawed human being like all of us. Her and Casey have personality disorders and locked in a dynamic that Cindy could not see the possible outcome of. Did Cindy contribute to who Casey is by enabling her? Of course she did.

I think Cindy's lack of boundaries (part of the personality disorder) really contributed to Casey's issues, but that is not malicious on Cindy's part. She, again like the vast majority of us, is doing the best she is capable of with what she has to work with. Largely due to her own contributions she has next to no visible support system. In Casey's generation how many spoiled, enabled, never forced to take responsibility by their parents adults do you think there are? Fortunately very few of them are sociopaths that will kill someone they are suppose to care for. If overly permissive parenting and inablilty to see your kid for who they really are was a crime.....

The walking on eggshells I see the family do with Cindy is because is domineering and relentless. Control freaks rarely have control of those around them. They just have people that appear to be doing what the CF wants. George has gone behind her back. And you know Casey has.

Cindy with no boundaries- domineering, relentless, poor boundaries, difficult to get along with.

Casey with no boundaries- liar, thief, child killer.

I don't think Cindy is worse than Casey at all. Her families emails to each other and to her didn't seem to pull any punches and other than being blind to the hopelessness of her daughter they didn't accuse her of any fault in the matter.

PS- I grew up with a mother like Cindy-on-steroids. We had a violent relationship and in my experience Cindy is too old to be brawling with a 22 year old Casey. That tends to come to an end somewhere around 16-18 when the strength balance shifts. I don't see Casey taking a beating from someone she can hurt. Not sure I buy the choking incident as told. And if it did happen I don't see Casey as a fleeing victim.

 

[tx_Dot]

I haven't read that but I would believe it. We've seen with our very eyes how Cindy placates Casey to keep her temper in check (on the jailhouse tapes).

Can you imagine the guilt Cindy is dealing with now? Guilt because she didn't file for custody of Caylee like she wanted. Guilt because her own daughter killed her offspring.

Did you see 'chefmom's' theory in #13 ?? Really makes sense that maybe it was KC doing the choking on June 15th, maybe it was Cindy w/marks on her neck......seems like LE asked Tony about marks on KC (& there were none),
I'll have to check his statement again ......& if I see a link to the drive off fight I'll post it too, as I'm sure I read that.

Yes, I imagine Cindy's having a real bad time......we all make mistakes/bad choices, but seldom have to live with the 'results' that Cindy will have to.

 

[Patty G]

B/c I definetly do. I can't help but think she was an abusive control freak over Casey. I am not excusing Casey in any shape or form but I just notice that about Cindy. Like the fact that Casey wanted to give Caylee up for adoption and Cindy wouldn't let her do that. She was Casey's child not Cindy's so it should have been up to Casey to do what she wanted to do.

There are other things to like almost like she controled Casey to the point where she made it so SHE was the to raise Caylee. I mean the woman was Caylee's, Grandmother yet she pretty much made/insisted that Caylee call her "Mommy". Like WTF is that about?

And then the night before Caylee died Cindy grabbed Casey by the neck. I don't know I just get this bad vibe from Cindy like she is ALMOST worse than Casey is.

We really don't know if Casey wanted to give Caylee up for adoption or if Cindy wouldn't let her because this is what Casey told others and we all know how Casey lied.

We all know about an argument based on the neighbors hearing it, but the "choking of Casey by Cindy" seems to have come from Lee, sooooooooooo we have to take that one with a "grain of salt".

 

[impatientredhead]

Yes, and I see a nervous breakdown in her near future. Honestly, I'm surprised she hasn't broken already. I think the slight chance that Caylee was actually somewhere alive somewhere kept her going before. And I do think she believed it, not completely, but because she wanted to believe it. Now that that is gone, I don't see her being able to take much more.

I did feel so bad for her during that last tape release. To me it is clear that at the timeframe they know Caylee is dead. I also think Cindy believes it was an accident. Heck there are people who post here who are convinced it was an accident, I am sure Cindy wants to believe that. Casey's parents seemed to be there with the goal of getting Casey to admit to the accident and take a deal (the meeting with George, JB being away, the I hope JB is being honest with you about what you are up against). Cindy looks like she is reeling, says she is going to be sick. I think she walked in there with the anticipation of shortly hearing that Caylee was dead due to an accident and that Casey had flipped out afterwards.

That nervous breakdown may have already started. If the trial brings evidence of cruelty and intent in Caylee's death it may push her over the edge. How horrible to have the only hope you have left for family be that your daughter accidently killed your grandchild and is self imploding versus what seems to be the inevitable reality.

 

[pirate]

I kind of go back and forth about how I feel about Cindy. From what AH, JG, and TL have said CA doesn't have any problem throwing Casey under the bus. CA had never met AH or TL until July 15, 2008 yet she told both of them what a thief Casey is. Of course she was telling them the truth but it's odd that CA airs her family's dirty laundry to people whom she just met.
Then in the police interviews with CA, she has no problem throwing other people under the bus including AH and JG. Cindy knows Casey stole from AH but still she is taking Casey's side.

And all of those media interviews/soundbites where Cindy badmouths LE and the media and how Cindy backpedals about Casey - those just drove me crazy!

Cindy strikes me as a very controlling person in her own right. But Casey is always manipulating her too. But I believe that CA didn't have anything to do with Caylee's disappearance and murder - that was all Casey's doing.

I do think that CA would have a hard time now putting on a public performance of supporting Casey though and that's why we don't see her in the media spotlight.

Bolded by me- CA was a desperate grandma, coming to the realization that something was horribly wrong and that her beloved granddaughter was missing.

I totally understand her willingness to bare her soul to the people that were closest to Casey at that time- she needed them to tell her everything they knew. And to make that happen, she shared with them.

 

[tx_Dot]

I dunno.. I came from an abusive, control freak house, myself, and never stole or killed anybody. My dad gave my sis and mom black eyes (I was the "good" child). he also told me that if I ever tried to move out of the house, he'd have me committed.

So, my sister married to get out fo the house. I just moved.

My story similar w/lots of alcohol involved.......just made me that much more determined that NO child of mine would ever live that way......& they haven't.

 

[radio]

I can not imagine a woman like Cindy allowing Caylee to be cared for by anyone she had not met. It doesn't make sense really.