Found Deceased Dominican Republic - Orlando Moore & Portia Ravenelle, from NY on vacation, April 2019

[human]

Hi Human,

I appreciate your insight and know that you speak from experience.

I too have friends who love Punta Cana. I met them in Mexico and we traveled with them afterwards when they went back to Mexico but never went to the DR/Punta Cana with them.

I agree with most of what you said, that these areas do not "advertise" the bad and it is often covered up or kept quite because of tourism. It is actually my point, that it is done.

I would expect however to hear it in my area newspaper if I lived there, etc. but that may not be the case either. I do not mean you tell the world, but one would think the locals would know there was an accident on a major highway, a Jane Doe, etc. If not, then the very same reason is likely the reason for it.

I do think someone missing their flight is noted in most countries like this. I have seen it quite honestly. I am not saying the conclusion is jumped to that anything dire is wrong, it could simply be missing the flight. I actually knew a couple one year that thought their flight was a day after it was, boy did they have a mess when they showed up a day late as well as a very expensive long trip home to book something. So yes, it does happen. They found out though because they were being looked for, the flight was missed, LE called, the hotel called and they were there so it was as far as it went.

They also had an employee at the rental car agency who knew they were (1) traveling and returning the car and intending to that night; and (2) who expressed concern and asked for advice about the drive. In the number of days that followed, I am sure that would have come up.

I do not disagree with most of your statements at all, in fact I agree with them.

Hope all is well with you.

At the airport, I always hear announcements about people being called for a flight because it is leaving in a few mins. Do these people show up?

One time we almost missed a flight because of a late flight with another airline. We made it just as they were ready to close the door. Nobody cared.

One year we could not go to Mexico because the Denver airport was snowed in. A couple days later the airline said we could fly with a different airline.

The airline had purchased the ticket that day.

When we went to board, we were pulled aside for a deep screening because the ticket had been purchased that day. The TSA did not care that it was purchased by an airline.

We were now cutting it really close and asked them to call the gate and tell them we were coming. They said they had no way to communicate with the gate. HM,

Anyway, no one cares if you are missing your flight

 

[kaen]

I think I remember hearing that. So she was actively searching and again, the dots were never connected. She could have been there as could her entire family have been with her. Yep, eight whole days... I guess here we just assume it is standard when looking for missing people to call hospitals and see if there are any Jane Does... Not to mention someone in that condition had something happen to her and LE would be involved in determining what...

I can't help it, it just does not fit with any standard logic whatsoever... The way it stands now anyhow.

If the dots had been connected, Portia could have been airlifted to a US hospital or a hospital with a higher level of care. As an indigent, unidentified woman, I have to wonder the level of care and measures that were taken with no one there to advocate for her.

 

[ilovechili]

At the airport, I always hear announcements about people being called for a flight because it is leaving in a few mins. Do these people show up?

One time we almost missed a flight because of a late flight with another airline. We made it just as they were ready to close the door. Nobody cared.

One year we could not go to Mexico because the Denver airport was snowed in. A couple days later the airline said we could fly with a different airline.

The airline had purchased the ticket that day.

When we went to board, we were pulled aside for a deep screening because the ticket had been purchased that day. The TSA did not care that it was purchased by an airline.

We were now cutting it really close and asked them to call the gate and tell them we were coming. They said they had no way to communicate with the gate. HM,

Anyway, no one cares if you are missing your flight

In the US I agree they do not, I have never seen it here, just the opposite as you say.

Denver must be the airport because we had a layover there once and when about to board, they held my then maybe 11 year old daughter back. They MADE me get on the plane and leave her alone. I was very upset. The plane was preparing to take off before I finally saw her come through the doors.

I am talking more about customs where you fill out the forms of where you are staying, how long, your purpose in the country, when your return flight is, the number of the flight, etc. when you are out of your own country. Countries that rely on tourism probably particularly.

With regard to the USA and perhaps even some other countries, yes, they could care less if we miss our flight nor will they wait for us or check it out.

Again, I agree with you.

 

[ilovechili]

If the dots had been connected, Portia could have been airlifted to a US hospital or a hospital with a higher level of care. As an indigent, unidentified woman, I have to wonder the level of care and measures that were taken with no one there to advocate for her.

I have wondered the same. This is a difficult case just because there is no familiarity with the area. Even if one has traveled there, they would not necessarily know the answer to what you just stated. I doubt many would know about lights, etc. as they do not travel at night. It makes it hard to be sure of much, in my opinion anyway.

We can google and all that but it is not the same as talking to someone who has lived there for instance. Then we get these conflicting news reports and it is pretty frustrating

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think your right.

First, we need it confirmed for sure what time they checked out of the hotel.

I wish we had a VI in this case. We could cut to the chase and get to the facts.

If anyone wants to chip in for my air fare I'll pop over for a couple of weeks with my best detective hat on (and flipflops)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Anyway, no one cares if you are missing your flight

Unless, of course, you have already checked in and your luggage is in the hold, no way will they fly in that scenario. I speak from experience of being delayed on a plane while they unloaded every piece of checked baggage in the hold, because one person had checked in their suitcase but not boarded. The pilot announced we were unlucky as it was the very last case they found.

 

[?mysterian?]

If the dots had been connected, Portia could have been airlifted to a US hospital or a hospital with a higher level of care. As an indigent, unidentified woman, I have to wonder the level of care and measures that were taken with no one there to advocate for her.

Maybe so, those apparent 12 hrs. she laid beside the road without medical help didn't do her any good, IMO. She possibly had a survivable head injury initially, with lack of immediate medical attention turning it into an eventual fatality. It would be interesting to see her medical records, and the autopsy reports. We'll probably never know, though.

 

[?mysterian?]

I have wondered the same. This is a difficult case just because there is no familiarity with the area. Even if one has traveled there, they would not necessarily know the answer to what you just stated. I doubt many would know about lights, etc. as they do not travel at night. It makes it hard to be sure of much, in my opinion anyway.

We can google and all that but it is not the same as talking to someone who has lived there for instance. Then we get these conflicting news reports and it is pretty frustrating

From the pokin' around I did, on travel sites mostly, they advise visitors to not drive, but if they do, not drive at night.

I'm just not sure how much investigating the LE agency did. Hopefully, more information will be forthcoming.

 

[ilovechili]

If anyone wants to chip in for my air fare I'll pop over for a couple of weeks with my best detective hat on (and flipflops)

lol, that is actually tempting if it gets us answers...

 

[ilovechili]

Maybe so, those apparent 12 hrs. she laid beside the road without medical help didn't do her any good, IMO. She possibly had a survivable head injury initially, with lack of immediate medical attention turning it into an eventual fatality. It would be interesting to see her medical records, and the autopsy reports. We'll probably never know, though.

We probably will never see all of that. We may hear the autopsy results if anything from our own officials. I would hope it would be insisted her family be provided all of the records though from investigatory to medical records, hotel records, etc. One would hope.

 

[Suglo]

Hi Human,

I appreciate your insight and know that you speak from experience.

I too have friends who love Punta Cana. I met them in Mexico and we traveled with them afterwards when they went back to Mexico but never went to the DR/Punta Cana with them.

I agree with most of what you said, that these areas do not "advertise" the bad and it is often covered up or kept quite because of tourism. It is actually my point, that it is done.

I would expect however to hear it in my area newspaper if I lived there, etc. but that may not be the case either. I do not mean you tell the world, but one would think the locals would know there was an accident on a major highway, a Jane Doe, etc. If not, then the very same reason is likely the reason for it.

I do think someone missing their flight is noted in most countries like this. I have seen it quite honestly. I am not saying the conclusion is jumped to that anything dire is wrong, it could simply be missing the flight. I actually knew a couple one year that thought their flight was a day after it was, boy did they have a mess when they showed up a day late as well as a very expensive long trip home to book something. So yes, it does happen. They found out though because they were being looked for, the flight was missed, LE called, the hotel was called and they were there so it was as far as it went.

The couple in this case also had an employee at the rental car agency who knew they were (1) traveling and returning the car and intending to that night; and (2) who called them and expressed concern and asked for advice about the drive that very day. In the number of days that followed, I am sure that would have come up.

I do not disagree with most of your statements at all, in fact I agree with them.

Hope all is well with you.

Edited to clarify

I spent some time searching the local newspapers yesterday to see if I could find any mention of an injured woman found on or near the road around March 27th. I didn’t find a single thing.

 

[human]

In the US I agree they do not, I have never seen it here, just the opposite as you say.

Denver must be the airport because we had a layover there once and when about to board, they held my then maybe 11 year old daughter back. They MADE me get on the plane and leave her alone. I was very upset. The plane was preparing to take off before I finally saw her come through the doors.

I am talking more about customs where you fill out the forms of where you are staying, how long, your purpose in the country, when your return flight is, the number of the flight, etc. when you are out of your own country. Countries that rely on tourism probably particularly.

With regard to the USA and perhaps even some other countries, yes, they could care less if we miss our flight nor will they wait for us or check it out.

Again, I agree with you.

The papers you fill out often have to do with tourism. The figures they use for economic interest.

Many countries allow you to stay 90 days. People overstay all of the time. It is nothing until you try to go to that country again. You will not be allowed entrance.

 

[human]

Unless, of course, you have already checked in and your luggage is in the hold, no way will they fly in that scenario. I speak from experience of being delayed on a plane while they unloaded every piece of checked baggage in the hold, because one person had checked in their suitcase but not boarded. The pilot announced we were unlucky as it was the very last case they found.

But they do not care about the person, Just if the luggage is an issue. And it could be that the person had a medical issue and was not traveling

 

[human]

6.18 mil tourists a year. Do you really think anyone cares about you?

Dominican Republic Continues to See Rise in Tourism Numbers in 2018 | Holiday news | The Holiday Place

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Just spent way longer than I should have on this, but I'm pretty sure 7:14 is the spot they came off (just after the two big trees)

Interestingly, right at that exact point there is no central barrier separating the two sides of the road, there's a break in it for a few metres. I think they realised they were going the wrong way and did a u-turn right there. Possibly got hit by another vehicle and spun off towards the cliff edge.

Have a look - in the centre of this map right above the blue 3
Google Maps

 

[ilovechili]

I spent some time searching the local newspapers yesterday to see if I could find any mention of an injured woman found on or near the road around March 27th. I didn’t find a single thing.

Thank you for that information. Pretty much what we would have guessed I think. If they did not even know she was a missing tourist, I would think it would have made the local news at least but who knows...

 

[kaen]

6.18 mil tourists a year. Do you really think anyone cares about you?

Dominican Republic Continues to See Rise in Tourism Numbers in 2018 | Holiday news | The Holiday Place

I think the tourism/government would care about crime that is directly linked to the bread and butter (hotels, resorts, high end restaurants) but not so much travel between the resort areas. Outside of high tourist dollar areas, I think little attention is paid to crime. I have students and friends who visit family in the cities and countryside of the DR. To a one, they say that you have to be careful at night, never travel alone, and look out for roving moped/motorcycle groups who smash and grab or attack in a group. While this was not the case as far as we know for this couple, there may be some connection to a robbery or other crime that they experienced but the information seems so cloudy and confusing that we will probably never know.

If I recall correctly, wasn't there a young man in the DR (Darryl Fornatora) whose friend left him behind. It has been thought he was killed (wallet washed ashore) but the DR police never really helped. I don't think solving crimes or putting attention on crimes is something the government wants. Here is his WS thread: Dominican Republic - Darryl Fornatora, 46, FL man missing, 28 Jan 2016

If Portia was blond and 20-30, I think the papers would have heard about it. Portia was an older woman and a woman of color. I think she was mistaken for a local and not much time and effort given to finding out more about her.

 

[Vern]

... (10ish - 1:41). Have I got that right?

Close for sure.

The Canuk friends they were partying with say the couple left some time between 9:30 pm and 10pm "to go pack up their room and leave". They would have also had to check out still.

If they did part nearer to the 9:30 timing, packed and checked out by 10, then the 2hour 20 minute drive (in daylight via googlemaps) would have seen them into the airport close to 1230am.

If they didn't part with the Canuks until 10ish, then packed, then checked out that would put their leaving the hotel even later still.

It's a 2 hour 20 minute trip via google. You have to add on time for night, unlit road at least from North Island to South Island and them being unfamiliar with it.

IMO, the possibility is there that they also got lost/made a wrong turn somehow due to alcohol and unfamiliarity in addition to the above factors. When I look at the map of where the north to south highway comes into the east/west highway, it is just a very strange layout and seems to be more natural to head towards the city thinking there will be a loop to get you heading eastwardly but there isn't.

 

[ilovechili]

Just spent way longer than I should have on this, but I'm pretty sure 7:14 is the spot they came off (just after the two big trees)

Interestingly, right at that exact point there is no central barrier separating the two sides of the road, there's a break in it for a few metres. I think they realised they were going the wrong way and did a u-turn right there. Possibly got hit by another vehicle and spun off towards the cliff edge.

Have a look - in the centre of this map right above the blue 3
Google Maps

The video shows lines between what were thought to be lights, for those wondering that upthread. I guess they still could be but it looks like they may be electric or telephone or some such. Still hard to tell, it moves pretty fast.

The map I see what you mean by getting across there. I matched it up on another map although it took me a bit. This goes with the speculation that they were going the wrong way. That also means their GPS was wrong or they were not using it.

It is plausible so now if there were some time frames and explanation for some of the other things...

Looking at that, if they were u-turning and went wide, I would almost think the vehicle would have rolled in that case...

Just talking out loud/just thoughts.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

When I look at the map of where the north to south highway comes into the east/west highway, it is just a very strange layout and seems to be more natural to head towards the city thinking there will be a loop to get you heading eastwardly but there isn't.

Exactly. Did you see my post a few up, there is a gap in the central barrier (to do a sneaky u-turn) bang opposite where they went over the cliff.