DY and TY feel this was planned ahead of time.

[Trident]

I think EVERY family has problems. At least most families do. Specially when stepparents are involved and 2 sets of family have to "get along" for the sake of the kid.

I am sure DY saw things she didn't like about KH and TH's household. But, ultimately, she did trust them with her kid.

Honestly, I think if something happened to most kids, we'd be able to see some sort of "red flag" on his/her behaviour.

With that said, I don't think Kaine, Desiree or Tony EVER imagined Terri would hurt Kyron. Mistreat him? Possibly... murder him? I doubt it.

And we still don't know that she did.

At this point, my sympathy quotient for any of the adults is dwindling fast. As someone said upthread a piece, (paraphrase) "The more they open their mouths, the more I shake my head."
.

My opinion only

 

[Etilema]

I don't think there was any abuse going on.

Just a typical child crying and being torn between adults.

Possibly. Except that DY said "increasingly". Why would he become more and more distraught and about having to go home? That suggests that something had changed, something new was going on.

Because normally, after so many years of the routine of going back and forth, children tend to adjust to that reality, not become more upset about it.

 

[watchful_eye]

except that dy said "increasingly". Why would he become more and more distraught and about having to go home? That suggests that something had changed, something new was going on.

Because normally, after so many years of the routine of going back and forth, children tend to adjust to that reality, not become more upset about it.

agreed.

 

[Aedrys]

Divorce and custody are sticky situations. It's not like Desiree could just take Kyron and that's that. Family court would have been involved, and there, you have to have more than just suspicion and accusation to get a child removed from a home. You have to have solid proof that abuse is going on. We don't know if something was in the works for Kyron to go live with his mom or if Kaine would have fought it hard and Desiree knew she wouldn't get the custody of Kyron she wanted. Courts tend not to rip children out of homes unless there is proof of abuse. Desiree could have all the suspicion in the world, but that wouldn't have been enough. I'm just saying it's not as easy as he complains, Desiree takes him, the end. The reality of the situation is far more complicated than that.

I do wonder, though, if TH was worried about Kyron leaving and how that would make her look. Two sons gone within a year? That doesn't look good at all for her. Plus, she knew a lot of parents in that school. Maybe she couldn't handle having to explain why Kyron was no longer going to be there? Narcissists can't deal with things that will make them look bad.

Anyway, back on topic, it's complicated and I doubt she ever thought this woman would actually make her son disappear or really hurt him. DY, and KH are the victims here and should be cut some slack instead of slammed for not seeing the signs or doing something sooner.

 

[TxLady2]

From my own experience when a child crys not to go home, abuse is the reason. This makes me very sad for Kyron, and even more afraid.

Not always. Sometimes it is just the fact that they will miss the person (in this case his momma and stepfather), that they are leaving.

True. But if my child had been sobbing, as Des described it, I would have tried to find out WHY he didn't want to go back, and I would have confronted the dad with what I found out, and demanded my child back.
It does not have to be a battle in court if both parents agree... sign some papers and it's done.

 

[sogren]

And we still don't know that she did.

At this point, my sympathy quotient for any of the adults is dwindling fast. As someone said upthread a piece, (paraphrase) "The more they open their mouths, the more I shake my head."

God, I wish I could ride on the bandwagon with everyone else, it gets kinda dusty walking behind with only a few who want truth more than blood.

My opinion only

I agree, as much as I hate to say it. All of the adults in this case have given me pause, not just TH, although she takes the cake.
I'll walk in the dust with you Trident.

 

[Etilema]

TH's mother said that he was timid, but the principal said he was "energetic." Maybe the 2 are not polar opposites. IDK

Yes, both KH and DY described Kyron as timid and shy and waiting to be gotten out of bed (after sleeping TWELVE hours--makes you wonder what time they put him to bed).

The idea of his timidity disturbed me as possibly being the result of intimidation by someone in his life. Which, as you said, doesn't have to involve physically hitting or hurting him, but just being forceful with words, tone, body language, and restrictions. In other words, he may have been fearful to get out of bed without permission. Just speculating, obviously.

Also, let's not forget that KH reported noticing problems in his marriage after the baby was born. He didn't elaborate on those problems, what they involved, but if he was experiencing something, Kyron would surely have sensed or witnessed those things, too. Also, the fact that as TH's ex-husband said, KH and TH's son would "butt heads" to the point that the son was sent away.

This kind of stressful and unpleasant interaction in the family could, itself, make Kyron reluctant to return to that home, especially if things were more peaceful and happy at DY's home, in comparison.

 

[human]

I do have a friend who's grandchild is with a mother who wants her child to the point of obsession. She is the custodial.

My friend (the grandmother) has said that they don't do anything to cross her, because then she makes life miserable for everyone else (not the child).

So they go along with anything she says so that things go as smoothly as possible.

This person is extremely controlling and a perfectionist.

 

[Trident]

I agree, as much as I hate to say it. All of the adults in this case have given me pause, not just TH, although she takes the cake.
I'll walk in the dust with you Trident.

Thank you, I needed that.

 

[human]

Perhaps Tony and Desiree asked him what was wrong, but he couldn't really explain it.

He was supposed to go there that weekend, and maybe something happened that he COULD explain.

It's possible that he did say to TH,, "I told Mommy----" whatever , in the past.

Now he was getting ready to tell Mommy a real biggie.

 

[ami]

Because normally, after so many years of the routine of going back and forth, children tend to adjust to that reality, not become more upset about it.

Well, that hasn't been my experience. Kids go through stages. Sometimes they want their Mom, sometimes they're feeling treated unfairly over something as simple as a game they want or being grounded and they want the "weekend parent" instead. This can go on indefinitely, and sparks in different cycles of growth.

It does not have to be a battle in court if both parents agree... sign some papers and it's done.

But if they did this each time the child said they would rather be at the other parents' house, how many times would the child move back and forth between states, schools and parents? And would you really let your very young child dictate the enormous parenting decisions of which household/state they would live in like that? And what about Kaine who has raised him as primary custodial parent for all those years - I'm not surprised he wouldn't just sign him over to another household.

 

[Trident]

Perhaps Tony and Desiree asked him what was wrong, but he couldn't really explain it.

He was supposed to go there that weekend, and maybe something happened that he COULD explain.

It's possible that he did say to TH,, "I told Mommy----" whatever , in the past.

Now he was getting ready to tell Mommy a real biggie.

This is a possibility, but, did the biggie Kyron theoretically might have told HAVE to be about TH?

 

[human]

I had a young child in my classroom once that was an absolute doll.

Then he changed after Christmas. The father, who did not live in the home, had gone to prison.

I talked to mother . She had such beautiful answers. Like a person with a Master's Degree, I felt, although she had not attended college.

We wracked out brains on how to deal with his out of control behavior.

In the spring, I found out from his aunt, the mother had been leaving the child with her for days at a time while she disappeared on drug binges.

Oh how one can be fooled.

 

[gwenabob]

And we still don't know that she did.

At this point, my sympathy quotient for any of the adults is dwindling fast. As someone said upthread a piece, (paraphrase) "The more they open their mouths, the more I shake my head."

God, I wish I could ride on the bandwagon with everyone else, it gets kinda dusty walking behind with only a few who want truth more than blood.

My opinion only

I think we are swimming behind a shark and the blood IS the truth.

 

[nursebeeme]

and why oh why didn't they try to have him come and live with them, if that is what he wanted? at least a discussion of the possibility with KH? I don't get it? If my flesh and blood was unhappy and needed me, i would move heaven and earth to do so....

jmhoo but we don't know if they discussed it or not.

 

[Deleted member 718]

It breaks my heart to see Desiree filled with regrets. I wish she could have taken time off work to see Kyron's red eyed tree frog diorama. I hope I might find the lesson of her pain, that I remember to take the time to be with my children whenever possible. We get so busy with work and commitments that we forget what is most important to us.

She could have left very early and gotten to Skyline school that morning, and even excused Kyron for the rest of the day as she was going to get him that evening anyway. My work partners are very cooperative with family time. We cover for each other so we can attend school and sporting events.

Not saying she's responsible in any way, just let us learn our own lessons from her pain.

 

[Trident]

Well, that hasn't been my experience. Kids go through stages. Sometimes they want their Mom, sometimes they're feeling treated unfairly over something as simple as a game they want or being grounded and they want the "weekend parent" instead. This can go on indefinitely, and sparks in different cycles of growth.



But if they did this each time the child said they would rather be at the other parents' house, how many times would the child move back and forth between states, schools and parents? And would you really let your very young child dictate the enormous parenting decisions of which household/state they would live in like that? And what about Kaine who has raised him as primary custodial parent for all those years - I'm not surprised he wouldn't just sign him over to another household.

When I divorced the father of my two daughters, after a year or so one of them wanted to go and live with him - I believe she was 12 or so. As much as it broke my heart, I let her move without any nasty scenes. I loved my daughter enough to let her go for her own happiness.

 

[human]

This is a possibility, but, did the biggie Kyron theoretically might have told HAVE to be about TH?

so who is this other person?

EG-the father, who probably has been checked out thoroughly and was at work?

EG-The bio parents who were checked out and found to be where they said they were?

EG- a person who cannot remember where she was after she left the school?

 

[curiousgirl2010]

I completely agree that ALL of the parents in the case has flaws. But again, I don't know many parents who don't.

With that said, I have to say I'm in the vast minority that is more sympathetic towards Kaine Horman than to Desiree and Tony. I feel like DY loved her kid VERY much. I am sure she has nothing to do with his disapearance, but, ultimately, Kaine was the one there for him in a day-to-day basis for the past 7 years. And, rather we like it or not, so was Terri.
It's very easy for DY to say she saw so many red flags but honestly? If she was SO concerned she should at the VERY least faught for her kid in court.

I feel for Desiree, I really, really do. She seems like a lovely, smart lady. She did, however, give up on her son without a fight. Which makes m believe she MUST have trusted Kaine. And Terri. In my opinion, Kaine is the biggest victim here. For whatever reasons, he devoted the past 7 years to providing a home for his son. And now he's gone because his crazy wife has some deep routed hatred towards him. Whatever Kaine did to Terri, he did NOT deserve this.

Ultimately, as far as we know, Terri is the only one to blame here. Desiree, Tony and Kaine are probably just human like most of us - flawed and far from perfect.

 

[TxLady2]

Divorce and custody are sticky situations. It's not like Desiree could just take Kyron and that's that. Family court would have been involved, and there, you have to have more than just suspicion and accusation to get a child removed from a home. You have to have solid proof that abuse is going on. We don't know if something was in the works for Kyron to go live with his mom or if Kaine would have fought it hard and Desiree knew she wouldn't get the custody of Kyron she wanted. Courts tend not to rip children out of homes unless there is proof of abuse. Desiree could have all the suspicion in the world, but that wouldn't have been enough. I'm just saying it's not as easy as he complains, Desiree takes him, the end. The reality of the situation is far more complicated than that.

I do wonder, though, if TH was worried about Kyron leaving and how that would make her look. Two sons gone within a year? That doesn't look good at all for her. Plus, she knew a lot of parents in that school. Maybe she couldn't handle having to explain why Kyron was no longer going to be there? Narcissists can't deal with things that will make them look bad.

Anyway, back on topic, it's complicated and I doubt she ever thought this woman would actually make her son disappear or really hurt him. DY, and KH are the victims here and should be cut some slack instead of slammed for not seeing the signs or doing something sooner.

It's not that difficult to change the custody agreement if both parents come to an agreement, it wouldn't be a battle in court. Just go to the judge, they both agree, the judge signs some papers and that would be it. We went through it with my stepdaughter.

It's possible that Des did talk to Kaine and he did not agree to let him go back and live with her. If that's true, I bet he's kicking his own rear end right now.

I'm just amazed at all these "red flags" they keep bringing up and no one did anything about it. True, not everyone would imagine something like this, but most concerned parents would suspect something was going on, enough to raise their concerns with the other parent, at least.

I can't help but wonder... I am not slamming the parents, but they just don't seem to be at all surprised with all these things coming out now... and that does concern me.