Ebola outbreak - general thread #3

[hambirg]

Thing is, those links state that the healthcare form on leaving Liberia asked if he had been cared for an Ebola patient or touched a body in an affected area. Not whether he had been around any sick people in general. So the posters who are saying that he lied about being around anyone sick are technically wrong, because he wasn't asked that question, according to those links. For him to have outright right lied, he would have had to know or suspect the pregnant lady had Ebola. We can debate whether he knew till the cows come home, but there is no concrete evidence that he knew and so we can still only speculate whether he lied on the healthcare forms in Liberia.

But if that's the case, then I guess we need to stop allowing people to travel. The risk is the same whether he knowingly lied or not. Ignornace is not a defense. What would a reasonable person believe? Btw. . .I think he lied, but let's just say he didn't. How does that change anything?

 

[Redux]

Ummm, this is a very important technicality- he said Liberia, only when asked for his Social Security card, he NEVER used the word Ebola, in fact he denied that. Yes, the hospital did also drop the ball, but had he said "Ebola" or even "Malaria", they would've been running down the halls to get him into isolation. Don't know if there's a Code for that- wouldn't be Code Red or Code Blue, but it would be something!

As was pointed out a few pages ago, malaria is not contagious.

http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/about/faqs.html

 

[Sluether87]

And we now know there is a risk of Ebola Zaire mutating and becoming airborne. NOT FEARMONGERING- fact: http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/12/health/ebola-airborne/

Well it is close to fear mongering, and I wouldn't say it was 'fact'. Most experts including the professor [Professor Peter Piot] who first discovered this virus, and those quoted in your link have said that it is unlikely that the virus will mutate to become airborne. In fact Professor Piot says there are many other unknown ways in which it could mutate:

Could the virus suddenly change itself such that it could be spread through the air?

Like measles, you mean? Luckily that is extremely unlikely. But a mutation that would allow Ebola patients to live a couple of weeks longer is certainly possible and would be advantageous for the virus. But that would allow Ebola patients to infect many, many more people than is currently the case.

But that is just speculation, isn't it?

Certainly. But it is just one of many possible ways the virus could change to spread itself more easily. And it is clear that the virus is mutating.

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/04/ebola-zaire-peter-piot-outbreak

 

[Sluether87]

I think it's blatantly obvious that he not only suspected but hopped a plane a.s.a.p. hoping to take advantage of medical services in the U.S. Right or wrong, I think a lot more people than not would do the same thing.

I don't think it's obvious. If the flight was booked prior to his exposure to the virus, you would guess that he was not then anticipating an urgent need to seek medical care. That said, exposure does not guarantee infection so many people could be in denial about it, and also about what is causing their initial symptoms.

And I do agree, my father grew up in a very impoverished part of Africa - hearing his life story reminds me often that people in the West don't know how lucky they are. When you are faced with a situation where your options are almost certain death, or possible recovery, the need for self-preservation can take over. I think that is probably a normal human response, whether it is right or wrong.

 

[Redux]

This is an excellent report about the origins of the Ebola outbreak.

Hell in the Hot Zone

As the Ebola epidemic rages, two questions have emerged: How did the deadly virus escape detection for three months? And why has a massive international effort failed to contain it?

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2014/10/ebola-virus-epidemic-containment

Thanks wasn't enough. This is an excellent detailed article about how this latest outbreak of ebola unfolded.

 

[Brightbird]

But if that's the case, then I guess we need to stop allowing people to travel. The risk is the same whether he knowingly lied or not. Btw. . .I think he lied, but let's just say he didn't. How does that change anything?

I agree totally the system for detecting potential Ebola cases is flawed. Asking people if they've cared for an Ebola patient/touched a body is dumb. Either people might be so deep in denial they say "no" or afraid of being stopped from traveling if they say "yes", so they "no". I have no idea if he lied. I could believe it was denial or ignorance though, since he hardly made much effort to get medical help in America. I don't think it makes a difference if he lied, because the system is flawed either way. But much of these threads has been spent discussing whether he lied, so I guess it makes a difference to some :dunno: It's been said he should be charged with 300 million counts of attempted murder. He's been wished dead. Liberia and America have threatened to prosecute him for lying. It's been insinuated that he's a terrorist. I just don't think there's proof that he intended to deceive. I do believe that most people would lie on their forms, but I still don't think that's proof that he did and I don't understand all the animosity based on some assumptions.

 

[Lyra500]

Snipped for relevancy.

The news of the girls recovery got me thinking. Once someone has recovered from Ebola, does that make them immune to it?

I believe it does - the only thing is that they are not sure for how long. i am fairly sure I have seen 10 years bandied about, but how reliable this is I cannot say.

One of the suggested management approaches was to use serum from recently recovered individuals as it will contain antibodies - sadly I think the countries involved simply do not have the infrastructure and equipment to make this viable.

 

[Yoda]

The husband of the Spanish nurse infected with Ebola is now in quarantine in hospital

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/07/us-spain-ebola-husband-idUKKCN0HW0MU20141007

 

[Yoda]

The nurse had twice gone into the room where Mr Garcia Viejo had been treated - to be directly involved in his care and to disinfect the room after his death. Both times she was wearing protective clothing.

Madrid health care director Antonia Alemany told reporters that according to the information available: "The nurse went into the room wearing the individual protection gear and there's no knowledge of an accidental exposure to risk."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29516882

 

[Yoda]

The 44-year-old nurse, who was part of the medical team that treated two Spanish missionaries who died of the disease shortly after they were repatriated to Madrid, first complained of feeling ill on September 30.She reportedly contacted health workers to tell them she was suffering from a low fever and fatigue explaining that she had assisted in the care of the missionaries at the specialist isolation unit of the Carlos III hospital.
But it wasn’t until she presented herself at the emergency department of her local hospital in the early hours of Monday with a high fever that she was finally admitted and given tests to see if she had contracted the virus.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-virus-for-a-week-before-being-diagnosed.html

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Either the protective gear was substandard - which is being claimed by other workers at the hospital - or she failed to follow protocols. And of course the protocols and training could have been substandard.

In addition, her early symptoms were not recognized when she first reported them, allowing a seven day delay in which she was in contact with others prior to her hospitalization.

It is disheartening to see that for all the talk, talk, talk about preparedness, now that the situation is at hand the medical community is just not dealing with this. And the more you read it seems the more you hear of personnel stating they have NOT been properly trained or even trained at all to deal with this.

Frightening, that's for sure.

 

[Elley Mae]

South Africa remains at slightly lower risk on the list of predicted countries likely to see an import of the disease due in part to the government’s decision to ban all non-citizens from travelling to SA from identified high risk countries in an effort to limit the spread of the disease.

http://travel.iafrica.com/flights/964314.html



http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/...ed-with-the-2014-west-african-ebola-outbreak/

So far most of the analyses on the risk of international spread of the outbreak have focused on the analysis of the sheer volume of international passenger traffic across countries 5,6. These analyses however do not consider the local evolution of the outbreak in the affected countries and the specific etiology of the disease (incubation time scale, etc.).

The probability of any country to experience EVD case importation depends on the passenger flow from the areas affected by the outbreak, the case numbers and the duration of the incubation time. To characterize and forecast the international spread, we assume that the transmissibility of the EVD, i.e. the growth rate of the epidemic, in the affected regions is not changing in the next two months.

 

[Elley Mae]

As the number of people placed in quarantine in Madrid grows, EU chiefs demand "clarification" from Spain over the virus' spread.

http://news.sky.com/story/1348716/ebola-outbreak-four-quarantined-in-spain

The Madrid nurse who became the first person to contract ebola outside of Africa is being treated with antibodies from survivors of the illness, hospital officials have revealed.

Spain's health authorities say a total of 22 people are thought to have been in contact with the 40-year-old nurse, whose name has not been released but is in a stable condition.

 

[faw720]

I find it incredible that the house is temporary. Who will disinfect it when she moves out? Who will want to live in it??? I'd say the house is more stigmatized for a realtor than having to disclose a murder/suicide took place on a property they are selling.

Dallas is a city of some extremely wealthy people, so wealthy in fact that most of us cannot even begin to comprehend. The house has been described as "isolated in a gated community with no nearby neighbors". I do not know this to be a fact, but I suspect it is the second get-away home for some very wealthy individual. If my suspicions are correct, it would be no problem for the owner to pay for having the house sanitized once Louise & her family leave.

 

[SStarr33]

Snipped for relevancy.

The news of the girls recovery got me thinking. Once someone has recovered from Ebola, does that make them immune to it?

Apparently not (or they are not sure)--see this re: Dr. Sacra:

CDC: Worcester Patient Does Not Have Ebola

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...sible-ebola/9WMNQZuGddeHWEFN48eMAM/story.html

 

[jjenny]

As the number of people placed in quarantine in Madrid grows, EU chiefs demand "clarification" from Spain over the virus' spread.

http://news.sky.com/story/1348716/ebola-outbreak-four-quarantined-in-spain

The Madrid nurse who became the first person to contract ebola outside of Africa is being treated with antibodies from survivors of the illness, hospital officials have revealed.

Spain's health authorities say a total of 22 people are thought to have been in contact with the 40-year-old nurse, whose name has not been released but is in a stable condition.

Where did they get antibodies from survivors? Both patients that they had in Spain had died.

 

[jjenny]

Apparently not (or they are not sure)--see this re: Dr. Sacra:

CDC: Worcester Patient Does Not Have Ebola

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...sible-ebola/9WMNQZuGddeHWEFN48eMAM/story.html

Sacra didn't have Ebola again.

 

[SStarr33]

Ok, so lets say he thought Marthalene had malaria. Did he mention THAT to the doctors?

Also I have heard conflicting things whether he told the hospital he was from Liberia or just from Africa, that also would make a difference.

And finally, did he tell them how long he had been in the country? Or that he had come from an area where Ebola was breaking out and killing people?

Did he or anyone with him express any concern about Ebola since they had to have heard of Ebola and how it was in the area he was from?

His family could not have been completely unaware of what Ebola was doing back in their homeland. Even if they were not huge news watchers, surely their ears would perk up at the mention of places from back home if they hear it on the TV, radio, in conversations among people, online, etc. They lived in a huge community of other people from Africa, other immigrants, etc. They had to have heard someone talk about what was going on back in Africa.

Per Dr. Nancy Snyderman:

"I can tell you that ALL OVER Monrovia, there are billboards messages blasting from tv and radio about ebola. EVERYONE here is hyper-alert and hyper-aware about ebola. So I don't know what this man knew, but we know that he came in contact with a young woman who died before his departure. It is hard to believe he didn't know he was in proximity with someone who was ill because we tracked the taxi he was in and the people he was exposed to have now died."

 

[Sonya610]

And we now know there is a risk of Ebola Zaire mutating and becoming airborne. NOT FEARMONGERING- fact: http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/12/health/ebola-airborne/

Viruses can also cross breed with other very similar viruses. Example would be the bird flu concern.

Both humans and birds each have their own constantly changing flu strains, some animals (like pigs and sometimes humans) can get both the bird and human varieties which provides the opportunity for the two flu viruses to possibly cross breed and create a new strain that affects both species.

That is also why the few people that DID get the bird flu were worrisome as if they happened to also have a case of an airborne human flu virus it could provide a potential cross-breeding ground.

The bird flu was probably much more likely to become a human airborne virus than Ebola since we always have airborne human strains of the flu circulating around all of the time.

 

[SStarr33]

Thing is, those links state that the healthcare form on leaving Liberia asked if he had been cared for an Ebola patient or touched a body in an affected area. Not whether he had been around any sick people in general. So the posters who are saying that he lied about being around anyone sick are technically wrong, because he wasn't asked that question, according to those links. For him to have outright right lied, he would have had to know or suspect the pregnant lady had Ebola. We can debate whether he knew till the cows come home, but there is no concrete evidence that he knew and so we can still only speculate whether he lied on the healthcare forms in Liberia.

He was asked if he had been around anyone who had been ill at the hospital.

He lied.