Ebola outbreak - general thread #8

[Inthedetails]

But he was taken to the hospital on Sunday. Why was he taken to the hospital before symptoms developed?

"The boy was transported to Bellevue Hospital Sunday night because of his travel history and initial reports that he had a fever, but he actually had no symptoms when he first arrived at the hospital, officials said. "
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/year-boy-tested-ebola-nyc-hospital/story?id=26478362

Hmmm...you're right. He developed a fever after arriving at the hospital, it seems. I did see a quote from a neighbor who said he looked weak when he left for the hospital. Perhaps we'll receive details after the test results are back, which I hope are negative. Sometimes first reports in the news have details that are incorrect.

 

[SStarr33]

That does look very promising. Not helpful at this moment, but certainly impressive, not only for treating ebola, but any number of other diseases.

Drug companies have to HATE the thought of it.

 

[oh_gal]

What they say is that before you show symptoms, you are NOT contagious and cannot infect anyone. But that doesn't mean that the moment you have the first symptom, you are automatically and definitely contagious.

From what we have observed, where no one has caught it other than exposure at the tail end of someone else's sickness, it gives the appearance that the risk really doesn't begin for some time thereafter, when the viral load has increased significantly.

I find it feasible - and prudent - if the publicized caution point using "onset of symptoms" still has a margin of error of quite some time, epidemiologically. When the first symptom shows, that's the time to begin to take huge precautions, but it's possible that doing so at that point is somewhat of an overkill, for safety's sake and to make a clear and easy line in the sand.

Thank you -- your explanation was very helpful!

 

[SStarr33]

Ebola is a viral infection. Narrator said device is for bacterial infection.

The article says it can be used for viruses

 

[SCHMAE]

I don't want to bash on Hickox, so I'm trying to phrase this delicately. Regardless of whatever is going on today, she has been on the front lines and giving of herself to those in need !!!!!!!!!! That deserves credit. But now threatening to sue to get out of quarantine makes me wonder what kind of message that sends to others . Does she think its' very hard to catch? Does she think it's not that serious a virus? Will others , like regular folks who are NOT HC , see her actions and think no need to quarantine myself if I'm near someone with it because that nurse didn't and she must know how easy or not it is to catch? It seems her actions are sending the opposite message than what others are sending. Whose message is right?

On a different tack, what good is mandatory when you can get out of it. That's the way I ground my kids.......

 

[oh_gal]

Of course she is. And like Nina Pham did, she can call up her designated contact and request to be transported to the hospital. In early ebola, they are not hemorrhaging, so there is no danger to the public in that kind of scenario. You are not a teeming cesspool of ebola the minute you begin showing symptoms, if no one is exposed to her body fluids, there is no threat. Her showing symptoms and being put into isolation immediately would not show that it was a "mistake" to send her home to self monitor. The Bellevue hospital employees, the NIH employees, the Nebraska employees, and Emory employees have taken care of ebola patients, and they are not self isolating, simply self monitoring. If one of them begins to run a fever or experience flu like symptoms, they too can get to the hospital immediately without endangering the public.

Thank you, I appreciate your insight! I'm sure many are tired of having to reiterate these points; but I appreciate the effort.

 

[jjenny]

Where did you get the idea that he had no fever when taken to the hospital?

It says "The child had a high fever when an Emergency Medical Service ambulance crew rushed him from his Bronx home to Bellevue Hospital about 9 p.m. Sunday. A source said the boy had recently been in Guinea, West Africa."

I just posted the link that said he had no fever on Sunday when he was taken to the hospital but developed fever on Monday. He was not febrile when taken to the hospital but developed fever Monday morning.

"The patient was transported by a specially trained HAZ TAC unit wearing Personal Protective Equipment (PPE). While a fever was initially reported, the patient was in fact not febrile when first examined at Bellevue," a statement from New York City Health and Hospitals said."
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/...inea-being-tested-for-ebola-in-new-york-city/

 

[Inthedetails]

Where did you get the idea that he had no fever when taken to the hospital?

It says "The child had a high fever when an Emergency Medical Service ambulance crew rushed him from his Bronx home to Bellevue Hospital about 9 p.m. Sunday. A source said the boy had recently been in Guinea, West Africa."

There are conflicting reports at the moment. Obviously something triggered the trip to the hospital, and perhaps a clearer timeline will be reported if he does indeed have ebola.

BBM.

"According to health officials, the 5-year-old boy developed a fever while under observation at Bellevue Hospital. They say the child had recently traveled to West Africa.'

http://bronx.news12.com/news/child-...ital-in-new-york-city-1.9550417#autoplay=true

 

[SteveS]

But now threatening to sue to get out of quarantine makes me wonder what kind of message that sends to others . Does she think its' very hard to catch?

As a matter of fact, she knows it is IMPOSSIBLE to catch from her at this time. And perhaps ever. So from a contagion standpoint, there is no value whatsoever in her being incarcerated in a tent in NJ.

 

[SStarr33]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/n...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

And the virus has presented at least one unusual challenge for law enforcement agencies, senior American officials said on Sunday. They described how agencies had urgently investigated a man who wrote a bizarre post on social media that he was going to try and contract Ebola in Africa and then return to the United States.

According to senior American officials, the man traveled to the West African country of Guinea in the past month in the hopes of working alongside humanitarian assistance organizations treating patients. The organizations quickly determined that the man had no medical expertise and was acting strangely, and they turned him away

In Guinea, C.D.C. officials interviewed the man and took his temperature several times, and determined that he showed no signs of the virus. The C.D.C. had no legal ability to hold the man and he is not in the custody of American or Guinean authorities there, American officials said Sunday.

“It’s not that we were trying to prevent him from returning, we were just ensuring that he didn’t pose a health risk to other travelers,” said a senior American official. “When we determined that he didn’t pose a risk we had no issue with him flying home.”

 

[SCHMAE]

As a matter of fact, she knows it is IMPOSSIBLE to catch from her at this time. And perhaps ever. So from a contagion standpoint, there is no value whatsoever in her being incarcerated in a tent in NJ.

I guess I should have read her back story a little closer ! I just wonder more about the message to others who may think they don't want to be in quarantine either.

ETA, I'm so distracted this morning. I guess I should read everything a little closer. Please disregard that post! I did not realize she would finish quarantine in her own home. I thought she was going to hit the streets free and wild.. Shaking my own d*** head. Sorry all.

 

[SCHMAE]

O/T somewhat. Many pages back, someone sourced a HCW out of Canada I believe, talking about a really bad virus going around and said that people should be worried about THIS virus and not ebola. IIRC it was not the entero virus, but if anyone remembers seeing that or you posted it, please do so again. TIA

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I find it appalling that some of my colleagues will tantrum when they return from caring for ebola patients simply because of quarantine. I feel that we know the risks when we volunteer and should care just as deeply for our own countrymen. Thus far, most of our friends and acquaintances have served in Haiti or South America doing plastic surgery, OB and internal medicine. Only one is returning from West Africa soon. If I were going, I would be responsible enough to store a 21 day supply of food for my return (dry or frozen goods) and prearrange for someone to drop off fresh produce at the end of my driveway upon my return. I further believe our government can compensate salaries for the 21 day quarantine for these heroes.
Further, I will not judge any one of my colleagues for not volunteering to care for ebola patients. I work with single parents of autistic children or young children with no one else in the picture (some are grandparents taking care of grandchildren). There are enough of us who are willing and able. A neighbor said she had no problem with people coming back unquarantined so I offered that they should go to Mexico or somewhere else for a vacation. Just an arbitrary choice. "Oh no, she exclaimed, we couldn't do that to Mexico!" But we can do that to our countrymen? MOO and not interested in vitriol.

 

[Inthedetails]

African Boys Attacked at Bronx School, Called "Ebola:" Advocacy Group

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ed-Bullying-IS-318-Tremont-NYC-280519232.html

 

[sonjay]

What they say is that before you show symptoms, you are NOT contagious and cannot infect anyone. But that doesn't mean that the moment you have the first symptom, you are automatically and definitely contagious.

From what we have observed, where no one has caught it other than exposure at the tail end of someone else's sickness, it gives the appearance that the risk really doesn't begin for some time thereafter, when the viral load has increased significantly.

I find it feasible - and prudent - if the publicized caution point using "onset of symptoms" still has a margin of error of quite some time, epidemiologically.

BBM. That's what we have observed in this country, with the extremely small number of cases that we've had here.

Is that also the case in the affected countries in Africa? I don't have any idea to what extent they have records of things like over there, but they certainly have a much larger sample size on which to base determinations like that.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

African Boys Attacked at Bronx School, Called "Ebola:" Advocacy Group

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ed-Bullying-IS-318-Tremont-NYC-280519232.html

How sad. Sounds like opportunistic racism to me.

 

[SteveS]

BBM. That's what we have observed in this country, with the extremely small number of cases that we've had here.

Is that also the case in the affected countries in Africa?

I don't know either way. But it's what we have seen here, where it's much easier to trace the infection trail and where things are played out in the media, and although it's definitely too small of a sample size to draw a hard conclusion from, it's been the same thing every time. I am comfortable with observing and learning from what we observe, even if we don't know everything.

I'm also a believer in common sense. And imo it wouldn't make sense for the CDC/WHO to put out a threshold of contagion without including some margin of safety, in light of the deadliness of the disease. In my estimation, that would fit perfectly with a disease whose danger periods worked as follows:
1 "you can't catch it" period, when there is super safety, and they say as much
2 "raise the alarm" point (for ebola, with the first symptoms) but the chance of catching it then are really about the same as hitting the lottery
3 actual time of risk of contagion - several days after raising the alarm, and days after first symptoms (with ebola, when the viral load has gotten much higher)

When people are getting infected, and we can observe the process, it seems to confirm that risk-level pattern.

 

[Sweet Fox]

Hmmm...you're right. He developed a fever after arriving at the hospital, it seems. I did see a quote from a neighbor who said he looked weak when he left for the hospital. Perhaps we'll receive details after the test results are back, which I hope are negative. Sometimes first reports in the news have details that are incorrect.

I also heard a quote from the neighbor saying she heard the boy was playing with the neighbor's kids and she sent them to school that day.

 

[epiphany]

The official said that the boy and his family had visited Guinea for about a month and arrived at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Saturday via Royal Air Maroc.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/5-year-old-boy-being-tested-for-ebola-at-bellevue-1414416800

 

[Isabelle]

Good point. So either the training is not as good or the strain is much more virulent.

Or the PPE in use is less than optimal. Something has changed.