Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11

[Tuffy]

Haven't both JP and JT referred to DB as JI's fiance?

If so, their own attorneys are acknowledging that she is more than just a girlfriend, and would be a future stepmother.

I don't know what the answer is, I just hope that the judge can see through it all to do what is in the best interest of the little boy.

That's really strange to refer to her as his fiance, when she's married to someone else.

 

[annalia]

That's really strange to refer to her as his fiance, when she's married to someone else.

I remember hearing it and thinking fiance? where does this come from? But of course, trying to go back to find those interviews is a bear, I need to learn to save things. I will try to look further later when I have more time.

But, if you think it's odd that she was referred to as a fiance, while I was searching I did find this from JT on 10/25, where he refers to JI as her husband.

"The mother who is missing her 10-month-old baby, within an hour, sitting on the floor trembling, as her husband called 9-1-1. Within an hour of that the police are interviewing her, accusing her of murder. That's just not good investigatory tactics and it doesn't build good faith in them."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/b...-parents-insists-mo-couple-is-innocent-59998/

I don't think what he says here will make or break the custody case, but is this intentional spin, just mis-speak or just another example of his cluelessness?

 

[Karmaa]

Responding to several posts at once:

I did not mean it wasn't relevant in reality. I mean that it is not LEGALLY relevant. As in the judge is not going to take that incident into consideration. He is going to look at JI's fitness, and if he takes DB into consideration, he will be looking at her legal history and her CPS history - both of which are apparently non-existent.

He can't use a kidnapping that she has not even been CHARGED or even declared a suspect as a reason. As for drinking - that is not illegal, no matter how much it offends people. And negligence? There is no evidence of legal negligence. The children were where they were supposed to be by all accounts, they were fed, they were not injured, they were cared for. The fact that someone came in and stole the baby is not indicative of negligence if the mother was not involved. And, even if DB was actually deemed neglectful in Lisa's kidnapping, normally the neglect and/or abuse must be directed to the child who's custody is being reviewed.

Now, it's possible that things may be slightly different in MO than in my state, but I am very familiar with family court here, and there is practically no chance of RR taking away custody. Even if her problems have been miraculously "cured", the judge would not take that child from his daddy. He might tweak the visitation and stuff, but nothing else.
If Debbie was charged with neglect or abuse, but there was no CPS record, the judge probably wouldn't even consider it.

Remember - the law doesn't always follow public opinion. There are set rules that must be followed, and judges can't just change them up to fit a particular case. (Like in that case in Florida recently.)

 

[Karmaa]

We don't know what questions LE wants to ask, so I don't think we can say that none of their questions would ever be asked either by the judge or opposing counsel. And of course LE is going to be interested in what is said to see if there's anything new or different than they've previously related to LE, regardless whether their own specific questions are asked.

Respectfully snipped

Again, I can't say 100% in MO, but in my state this would be in a closed courtroom. LE would not be invited.

Here, the only people permitted in the court during a sensitive hearing are the judge (or Master), the parents/partners and children, lawyers, CPS workers and court appointed advocates. No one else. If anyone else has something to say, they have to send it to the judge in writing.

 

[Sherbie]

Respectfully snipped

Again, I can't say 100% in MO, but in my state this would be in a closed courtroom. LE would not be invited.

Here, the only people permitted in the court during a sensitive hearing are the judge (or Master), the parents/partners and children, lawyers, CPS workers and court appointed advocates. No one else. If anyone else has something to say, they have to send it to the judge in writing.

I don't think LE has to be in the courtroom to learn what was said. I believe there are legal means for LE to obtain transcripts of such hearings when they might contain information pertinent to a time-sensitive, endangered person investigation.

 

[Donjeta]

Jhessye Shockley's mother had had her parental rights severed after a severe assault and beating of one of her children but when the children were returned to her and CPS was called about continuing fears of abuse she was allowed to keep the children and beat one to death. If having spent years in prison for child abuse wasn't enough to keep the children away from her I can't see that JI and DB have anything to worry about.

 

[Sherbie]

Responding to several posts at once:

I did not mean it wasn't relevant in reality. I mean that it is not LEGALLY relevant. As in the judge is not going to take that incident into consideration. He is going to look at JI's fitness, and if he takes DB into consideration, he will be looking at her legal history and her CPS history - both of which are apparently non-existent.

He can't use a kidnapping that she has not even been CHARGED or even declared a suspect as a reason. As for drinking - that is not illegal, no matter how much it offends people. And negligence? There is no evidence of legal negligence. The children were where they were supposed to be by all accounts, they were fed, they were not injured, they were cared for. The fact that someone came in and stole the baby is not indicative of negligence if the mother was not involved. And, even if DB was actually deemed neglectful in Lisa's kidnapping, normally the neglect and/or abuse must be directed to the child who's custody is being reviewed.

Now, it's possible that things may be slightly different in MO than in my state, but I am very familiar with family court here, and there is practically no chance of RR taking away custody. Even if her problems have been miraculously "cured", the judge would not take that child from his daddy. He might tweak the visitation and stuff, but nothing else.
If Debbie was charged with neglect or abuse, but there was no CPS record, the judge probably wouldn't even consider it.

Remember - the law doesn't always follow public opinion. There are set rules that must be followed, and judges can't just change them up to fit a particular case. (Like in that case in Florida recently.)

It is legally relevant. The judge will look not only at JI's fitness but DB's as well since she lives in the home, is the person to whom JI entrusts the care of his child on a daily basis, and since her fitness will be called into question by the biological mom's counsel. The judge may conclude that there isn't enough justification to remove the child, but he/she will definitely consider the concerns raised about the child's caregiver circumstances, IMO.

 

[In da Middle]

Jhessye Shockley's mother had had her parental rights severed after a severe assault and beating of one of her children but when the children were returned to her and CPS was called about continuing fears of abuse she was allowed to keep the children and beat one to death. If having spent years in prison for child abuse wasn't enough to keep the children away from her I can't see that JI and DB have anything to worry about.

In Jhessye's case, the bio mom was not allowed to have the children. The grandmother had custody and the grandmother let the mother, who was still stripped of custody, have the children is my understanding.

 

[Donjeta]

In Jhessye's case, the bio mom was not allowed to have the children. The grandmother had custody and the grandmother let the mother, who was still stripped of custody, have the children is my understanding.

Sorry for the OT but the cousins who cared for Jhessye previously called CPS repeatedly with their concerns that the children were being abused while they lived with Jerice. CPS was aware of the situation but they were allowed to stay with mom.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/LaurieRoberts/146522

 

[Sherbie]

I don't think the child will be removed from his father's custody, either. I'm just saying that I think the judge has to consider all these things in making a decision in the best interests of a child.

 

[yllek]

Jhessye Shockley's mother had had her parental rights severed after a severe assault and beating of one of her children but when the children were returned to her and CPS was called about continuing fears of abuse she was allowed to keep the children and beat one to death. If having spent years in prison for child abuse wasn't enough to keep the children away from her I can't see that JI and DB have anything to worry about.

I don't think she legally had custody, I think her mother did. But I could be wrong.

Also, look at Terri Horman. She wasn't charged with any crime after Kryon went missing. The murder for hire sting did not pan out for LE. By all accounts, she was a good mother who helped out at Kyron's school, had pictures of him and his half sister plastered all over social media, kept him well fed and clothed, sent regular emails about him to his bio-mom, adored his little half sister... After Ky's disappearance, her husband and Ky's dad admitted that Terri was drinking at the house at night and not checking on the baby etc... He sued for full custody and she had to relinquish all rights to the child for the time being because she refused to answer questions that could have been used against her if criminal charges had been filed in regards to Kyron.

It could go either way. I seriously hope that the right decision is made for Jeremy's boy. If that means that Jeremy retains custody with Debbi living in the house, I will accept that and it is something that Lisa's parents can use as PR in their favor. It's good that the boy's safety is being evaluated in any case, imo. If, in the process, more information that could help Lisa's case is gleaned, even better.

 

[menmo]

Just showing that sometimes during a missing child's case that custody does change. I haven't been following this case as close as some others but last I knew this mom wasn't cooperating with LE, either.

http://today.seattletimes.com/2011/12/missing-boys-father-to-regain-custody-of-daughter/
Solomon Metalwala, father of missing Sky Metalwala, has moved one step closer to regaining custody of his 4-year-old daughter.

During a hearing in Kent this morning, Metalwala was awarded custody of Maile Metawala as soon as a domestic-violence protection order against Metalwala is rescinded or modified. The order was obtained falsely by Metalwala’s estranged wife, Julia Birykova, during their contentious divorce, according to Metalwala’s attorney.

MOO

 

[Karmaa]

Just showing that sometimes during a missing child's case that custody does change. I haven't been following this case as close as some others but last I knew this mom wasn't cooperating with LE, either.

http://today.seattletimes.com/2011/12/missing-boys-father-to-regain-custody-of-daughter/
Solomon Metalwala, father of missing Sky Metalwala, has moved one step closer to regaining custody of his 4-year-old daughter.

During a hearing in Kent this morning, Metalwala was awarded custody of Maile Metawala as soon as a domestic-violence protection order against Metalwala is rescinded or modified. The order was obtained falsely by Metalwala’s estranged wife, Julia Birykova, during their contentious divorce, according to Metalwala’s attorney.

MOO

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think we all know that custody orders can change. After all if a parent were to be sent to jail, or to die, the custody would certainly be reevaluated.

In the case you mention, the mother did something not only negligent, but illegal (leaving a baby in the car alone.) Plus the custody order was granted on fraudulent terms, which the father was fighting from the very beginning.

I am not following that case, but IIRC that "mother" is also accused of being a danger to her child, by threatening to kill at least one of the kids, before the little one was "kidnapped". Add in all of the other reports of her erratic behavior, and a judge would have to be insane to give any child back to that woman.

If MO is anything like my state, they do not want the kids in state custody unless absolutely necessary. In my state we would be doing whatever we could to get this child back to her Dad.

 

[In da Middle]

Just showing that sometimes during a missing child's case that custody does change. I haven't been following this case as close as some others but last I knew this mom wasn't cooperating with LE, either.

http://today.seattletimes.com/2011/12/missing-boys-father-to-regain-custody-of-daughter/
Solomon Metalwala, father of missing Sky Metalwala, has moved one step closer to regaining custody of his 4-year-old daughter.

During a hearing in Kent this morning, Metalwala was awarded custody of Maile Metawala as soon as a domestic-violence protection order against Metalwala is rescinded or modified. The order was obtained falsely by Metalwala’s estranged wife, Julia Birykova, during their contentious divorce, according to Metalwala’s attorney.

MOO

IMO not even a comparable case. In Sky's case the dad WANTED to be a part of the childs life and has fought for his right to custody. None of the same in this case. In Sky's case, dad didn't wait 6 years to try nor wait 6 years to visit.

 

[Nixie]

I think that the hearing will be uneventful unless there is some sort of evidence against JI to make him a suspect or he has been doing something to bar the mother from seeing him. I also hope the judge orders her to pay the back support she owes I really hate it when parents don't pay some sort of support for their children men and women. I don't think there is any excuse not to pay something to help support your child. I don't see the judge just letting the boy go into a home where he knows no one without finding there is some sort of immanent danger to him. Maybe but I think he will order counseling and/or home visits before he just removes the boy from his home unless there is a lot more to the story then what they are saying.

 

[madge]

Debbie is living in adultery and I wonder if it's illegal in the state of Missouri?

 

[hambirg]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think we all know that custody orders can change. After all if a parent were to be sent to jail, or to die, the custody would certainly be reevaluated.

In the case you mention, the mother did something not only negligent, but illegal (leaving a baby in the car alone.) Plus the custody order was granted on fraudulent terms, which the father was fighting from the very beginning.

I am not following that case, but IIRC that "mother" is also accused of being a danger to her child, by threatening to kill at least one of the kids, before the little one was "kidnapped". Add in all of the other reports of her erratic behavior, and a judge would have to be insane to give any child back to that woman.

If MO is anything like my state, they do not want the kids in state custody unless absolutely necessary. In my state we would be doing whatever we could to get this child back to her Dad.

There is no proof that JB did anything negligent or illegal. In fact, LE has stated that they don't believe that Sky was ever in that car. Julia did not abandon him in that car. . so no crime.

Solomon comes from a wealthy family, he is able to fight these things. We do not know if that's the case with RR, in fact everything I've heard so far leads me to believe that that's not the case.

 

[tlcya]

I have not checked this thread feeling it was a premature discussion based off bad reporting. Forgive me for not reading all 30 pages. Have any documents actually ever been filed by or on behalf of the child's biological mother in attempt to regain custody or even visitation with the child as yet? Or is this all still in the speculation mode?

TIA

 

[askfornina]

I have not checked this thread feeling it was a premature discussion based off bad reporting. Forgive me for not reading all 30 pages. Have any documents actually ever been filed by or on behalf of the child's biological mother in attempt to regain custody or even visitation with the child as yet? Or is this all still in the speculation mode?

TIA

here you go:

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...older-half-brother-battles-for-custody-of-boy

An attorney for the mother of Baby Lisa's 8-year-old half brother said she filed an emergency custody case Monday to remove the boy from Deborah Bradley and the boy's father, Jeremy Irwin.

A court official acknowledged papers were filed on behalf of the boy's mother, Rasleen Raim, at the Clay County Courthouse, but declined to provide details.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...custody-battle-over-Lisa-Irwin-s-half-brother

A hearing regarding a gag order in the custody battle over one of Lisa Irwin’s half-brothers has been delayed until Dec. 7.

Neither the boy's mother Rasleen Raim nor father Jeremy Irwin, who is also Baby Lisa's father, were in court for the 9 a.m. hearing Tuesday regarding the gag order in the court battle fover their son.

The attorney for Raim did not appear for the hearing. Irwin was represented by Kansas City attorney John Picerno.

Earlier this month, Raim, Irwin's ex-girlfriend, filed for temporary custody of their 8-year-old son. She said it was for his "safety, comfort and peace of mind."

 

[Nixie]

I have not checked this thread feeling it was a premature discussion based off bad reporting. Forgive me for not reading all 30 pages. Have any documents actually ever been filed by or on behalf of the child's biological mother in attempt to regain custody or even visitation with the child as yet? Or is this all still in the speculation mode?

TIA

She filed for emergency custody the hearing is the 7th.