Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11

[In da Middle]

Why wouldn't he? JI and RR didn't split until 2008 and apparently that is about the same time DB came into the picture. The son was roughly 5 by that time.

They split in 2005. RR has not lived here since then. She did not live there for 3 years before DB came into the picture.

 

[SUNchips]

Until this case, I always thought "blacking out" and "passing out" meant the same thing too, Sparklin: that the person was not functional, eyes closed....

Perhaps that is a common misconception of the phrase "black out". The reporter could have been asking about one scenario and DB could have been answering about a different scenario. But, anyway, DB only said 'it's possible' so either one or neither one could have happened.

Ha! It just occurred to me that if you don't remember something because you 'blacked out', how would you remember that you don't remember?

OT-but I have blacked out, many times. I used to drink a lot at a time about 3 days every week and I would actually often blackout (which is why I don't drink anymore). Sometimes I was able to remember a foggy version of the night before, but with huge chunks missing (example: "We went to mcdonalds last night and I paid for us all? I don't remember leaving the house"). But sometimes I would wake up in the morning and not remember anything from after I got really drunk. My friends would have to piece together the night for me, and that was realllly when I got myself into trouble. I would go through my cell phone and see embarrassing texts I had sent to guys and things like that.
Not saying DB was black out or passed out, but I think if she was either one, then she honestly may not be able to remember what happened with the baby. This is all IMO, of course.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

I agree. For Webslueths purposes, it's probably better to stay factual though. The boys aren't stepbrothers. Their parents are dating. IMO

"step" is not a legal term. even if deb and jeremy were married the boys legal relationship would not change from what it is now.

 

[Angelonline]

Something I have never shared on here, or anywhere online for that matter, but I used to be married to a heavy drinker. He drank every day and often on weekends got black out drunk. He was not passed out like asleep. For example, one night he drank so much, he blacked out on the sidewalk in front of our apartment complex. I could not wake him up or get him inside. I tried everything. Finally a neighbor helped me pull him inside by dragging him by the feet. He always got very angry when he drank and would get into fights and arguements and never remember any of it the next day. So I unfortunately have a lot of experience with black out drinking. If DB was black out drunk, she was certainly in no shape to respond to a child's needs or an emergency in any way whatsoever. Now whether or not DB was blackout drunk or even drunk, who knows.

 

[Sparklin]

OT-but I have blacked out, many times. I used to drink a lot at a time about 3 days every week and I would actually often blackout (which is why I don't drink anymore). Sometimes I was able to remember a foggy version of the night before, but with huge chunks missing (example: "We went to mcdonalds last night and I paid for us all? I don't remember leaving the house"). But sometimes I would wake up in the morning and not remember anything from after I got really drunk. My friends would have to piece together the night for me, and that was realllly when I got myself into trouble. I would go through my cell phone and see embarrassing texts I had sent to guys and things like that.
Not saying DB was black out or passed out, but I think if she was either one, then she honestly may not be able to remember what happened with the baby. This is all IMO, of course.

Yikes ~ thanks for sharing that honey!! I had no clue!

 

[Sparklin]

Something I have never shared on here, or anywhere online for that matter, but I used to be married to a heavy drinker. He drank every day and often on weekends got black out drunk. He was not passed out like asleep. For example, one night he drank so much, he blacked out on the sidewalk in front of our apartment complex. I could not wake him up or get him inside. I tried everything. Finally a neighbor helped me pull him inside by dragging him by the feet. He always got very angry when he drank and would get into fights and arguements and never remember any of it the next day. So I unfortunately have a lot of experience with black out drinking. If DB was black out drunk, she was certainly in no shape to respond to a child's needs or an emergency in any way whatsoever. Now whether or not DB was blackout drunk or even drunk, who knows.

Thanks for sharing that. I was also married to a heavy drinker, but he was just soppy (and sickening) when he drank and he would pass out, but if I needed him up for anything (I didn't usually lol) he would get up and carry on fairly normally. I don't remember (not a black out :innocent that he ever said he couldn't remember anything. Very scary!

 

[hambirg]

They split in 2005. RR has not lived here since then. She did not live there for 3 years before DB came into the picture.

I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood. Where did the 2005 come from?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Something I have never shared on here, or anywhere online for that matter, but I used to be married to a heavy drinker. He drank every day and often on weekends got black out drunk. He was not passed out like asleep. For example, one night he drank so much, he blacked out on the sidewalk in front of our apartment complex. I could not wake him up or get him inside. I tried everything. Finally a neighbor helped me pull him inside by dragging him by the feet. He always got very angry when he drank and would get into fights and arguements and never remember any of it the next day. So I unfortunately have a lot of experience with black out drinking. If DB was black out drunk, she was certainly in no shape to respond to a child's needs or an emergency in any way whatsoever. Now whether or not DB was blackout drunk or even drunk, who knows.

BBM. I wonder if this idiot had selective memory about his abusive behavior?

 

[rosiebean]

I have never had a 'black out' but when I heard the reporter ask the question, I immediately thought of passed out in sleep. I didn't realize that it actually meant walking and functioning, but not remembering what you were doing...that is very scary and regardless of black out or pass out - it was very irresponsible. Deb didn't use the words black out originally - she used drunk. The reporter used 'black out'....we can't be sure of how Deb took that and even then she only said 'it's possible'. To me, I originally took that as, when she went to bed, she fell into a deep sleep/passed out...

I would like to know by anyone here...if ANYBODY drinks enough will you 'black out'???

eta:Sorry Nursebeeme ~ sometimes I get caught up and don't realize where I am :blushing:

ot - I think it's very convenient the timing in this. I would understand if she had done this at any other time, but now just seems to cruel to everyone involved..just my opinion of course. I think taking advantage of her visitations would be a good first step and carrying on from that point. It just feels like she is taking advantage of a terrible tragedy and it makes me sad.

From what I've read (and experienced), no, not 'anybody/everyone' will black out if they drink enough. It's individual to the person. Some people, who are not frequent drinkers, will experience black outs after drinking a huge amount that is outside of their 'norm'. Some who are habitual drinkers experience them, but there's no pattern to the black outs (i.e., they can drink the same amount of vodka nights on end, but the black outs happen every once in a while...totally independent of how much they drank as their drink level is steady day in and day out). Some black outs are triggered by predicable events, some are random.

Black outs can be a symptom of alcohol dependency/addiction, but it can also occur in people without addiction.

When I was in college way back in the day, I learned that after drinking champagne, I had periods of 'black' over the course of a night. I would remember parts of the night's events (the beginning of the party, the middle, riding with a friend home...but the end of the party was a blank). After two successive New Year's parties with blacked-out periods, I simply stopped drinking champagne and did not experience a black out again...until a party as a working adult where I was served scotch. Now I have two 'no no' drinks that I won't touch.

DB stated that she did not remember checking on Baby Lisa before going to bed and had to be told by a neighbor that the lights were off by 11:30...that, to me, speaks of a black out, based on my own experience (or she's lying). In any case, if *my* child were in the custody of someone who had drank to the point of blacking out while being the sole person in charge of the household...you bet I'd be taking legal action. I don't know what RR's situation is, but I don't think it's 'convenient' for her to take action now...heck, I'd question her as a mother if she DIDN'T take action after learning that her son was being taken care of someone who...on the first night their dad worked late...drank so much that a large portion of the evening (based on DB's own words) are unknown.

And I must add...it's mighty convenient timing that the night DB drinks herself into what is, in my experience, a drunken black out, her baby is suddenly nowhere to be found.

I'm not convinced DB did anything other than drink. But I reserve the right to say that her drinking to excess when she was the sole caregiver was negligent, dangerous, and inexcusable...and, oh heck yes, I hope the boys' other parents aren't OK with that behavior.

Edited to add: A drunken 'black out' is not just passing out. The person who is blacked out is awake and 'functioning' on some level (though they are obviously drunk). It's called a black out because they cannot recall what happened during that time period even when prompted by others who witnessed their behavior/the events during the blacked out period. One of my champagne black outs included me literally dancing on top of a table (while wearing a grass skirt and motorcycle helmet)...I'd have thought my friends were lying if it weren't for the photos. Luckily for me, I was a 'happy' drunk...I had an uncle who drank heavily and would black out...he didn't remember the time he skinny-dipped at my cousin's graduation party, nor did her remember the time he punched a hole in the dining room wall because he was ready for the Christmas open house to be over (at 8 pm, an hour after it actually started...because he'd started drinking well before 5 that afternoon). I learned later that he would sometimes hit or shake my aunt after drinking. Sometimes he remembered and would minimize his behavior to my cousins, sometimes he'd ask when she'd fallen and bruised her arm/lip/neck.

 

[Minette]

I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood. Where did the 2005 come from?

If you go here and type in her name, you will see that there are two court filings related to paternity/child custody with JI, the first one in filed on May 31, 2005: https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchCases.do?searchType=name

But as InDaMiddle is a resident in JI's neighborhood, I expect she also has personal knowledge.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

From what I've read (and experienced), no, not 'anybody/everyone' will black out if they drink enough. It's individual to the person. Some people, who are not frequent drinkers, will experience black outs after drinking a huge amount that is outside of their 'norm'. Some who are habitual drinkers experience them, but there's no pattern to the black outs (i.e., they can drink the same amount of vodka nights on end, but the black outs happen every once in a while...totally independent of how much they drank as their drink level is steady day in and day out). Some black outs are triggered by predicable events, some are random.

Black outs can be a symptom of alcohol dependency/addiction, but it can also occur in people without addiction.

When I was in college way back in the day, I learned that after drinking champagne, I had periods of 'black' over the course of a night. I would remember parts of the night's events (the beginning of the party, the middle, riding with a friend home...but the end of the party was a blank). After two successive New Year's parties with blacked-out periods, I simply stopped drinking champagne and did not experience a black out again...until a party as a working adult where I was served scotch. Now I have two 'no no' drinks that I won't touch.

DB stated that she did not remember checking on Baby Lisa before going to bed and had to be told by a neighbor that the lights were off by 11:30...that, to me, speaks of a black out, based on my own experience (or she's lying). In any case, if *my* child were in the custody of someone who had drank to the point of blacking out while being the sole person in charge of the household...you bet I'd be taking legal action. I don't know what RR's situation is, but I don't think it's 'convenient' for her to take action now...heck, I'd question her as a mother if she DIDN'T take action after learning that her son was being taken care of someone who...on the first night their dad worked late...drank so much that a large portion of the evening (based on DB's own words) are unknown.

And I must add...it's mighty convenient timing that the night DB drinks herself into what is, in my experience, a drunken black out, her baby is suddenly nowhere to be found.

I'm not convinced DB did anything other than drink. But I reserve the right to say that her drinking to excess when she was the sole caregiver was negligent, dangerous, and inexcusable...and, oh heck yes, I hope the boys' other parents aren't OK with that behavior.

Edited to add: A drunken 'black out' is not just passing out. The person who is blacked out is awake and 'functioning' on some level (though they are obviously drunk). It's called a black out because they cannot recall what happened during that time period even when prompted by others who witnessed their behavior/the events during the blacked out period. One of my champagne black outs included me literally dancing on top of a table (while wearing a grass skirt and motorcycle helmet)...I'd have thought my friends were lying if it weren't for the photos. Luckily for me, I was a 'happy' drunk...I had an uncle who drank heavily and would black out...he didn't remember the time he skinny-dipped at my cousin's graduation party, nor did her remember the time he punched a hole in the dining room wall because he was ready for the Christmas open house to be over (at 8 pm, an hour after it actually started...because he'd started drinking well before 5 that afternoon). I learned later that he would sometimes hit or shake my aunt after drinking. Sometimes he remembered and would minimize his behavior to my cousins, sometimes he'd ask when she'd fallen and bruised her arm/lip/neck.

Hi rosiebean. Do you think that memory problems in relation to drinking only occur when someone experiences blackouts? Or can just being drunk cause memory lapses?

 

[rosiebean]

Hi rosiebean. Do you think that memory problems in relation to drinking only occur when someone experiences blackouts? Or can just being drunk cause memory lapses?

In essence, from what I've read and experienced and witnessed, if a person has a memory problem during the time they were drinking (i.e., they cannot remember a portion of the time they were drunk even after being prompted/reminded), then they were blacked out. There's no difference, IMO, between a memory 'lapse' and a black out. I was quite the partier in my teens (it was legal in my state at that point!) and in my 20s, and I did indeed have fuzzy moments where I could vaguely recall the ride home, stopping for a snack, calling an ex-boyfriend, etc. But that's the difference...I could remember vast parts of 'fuzzy' nights...the times I blacked out, I remembered NOTHING, even after being told what I'd done and even after I saw evidence of what I'd done.

Blacking out is like amnesia. A person is incapable of recalling the past, even when told in detail what happened. I've also read that alcohol related black outs are worse in people who experience anxiety.

 

[DeAnn]

Do we even know if this woman has been supporting her son in some way, shape or form? We already know there has been very limited, if any, contact. Does the boy even recognize who his mother really is?

Some answers here

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16043329/baby-lisas-parents-expected-to-move-back-into-home

 

[DeAnn]

They split in 2005. RR has not lived here since then. She did not live there for 3 years before DB came into the picture.

In da Middle is right again. They split in 2005. JI sued for declaration of paternity in 2005 and won custody. RR got supervised visits, which Tacopina says she has not exercised.

 

[Jaxson]

In da Middle is right again. They split in 2005. JI sued for declaration of paternity in 2005 and won custody. RR got supervised visits, which Tacopina says she has not exercised.

In da Middle is the bomb I tell Ya! Have I thanked you lately In da Middle? :rocker:

 

[Deleted member 39678]

In essence, from what I've read and experienced and witnessed, if a person has a memory problem during the time they were drinking (i.e., they cannot remember a portion of the time they were drunk even after being prompted/reminded), then they were blacked out. There's no difference, IMO, between a memory 'lapse' and a black out. I was quite the partier in my teens (it was legal in my state at that point!) and in my 20s, and I did indeed have fuzzy moments where I could vaguely recall the ride home, stopping for a snack, calling an ex-boyfriend, etc. But that's the difference...I could remember vast parts of 'fuzzy' nights...the times I blacked out, I remembered NOTHING, even after being told what I'd done and even after I saw evidence of what I'd done.

Blacking out is like amnesia. A person is incapable of recalling the past, even when told in detail what happened. I've also read that alcohol related black outs are worse in people who experience anxiety.

Thanks. So its your belief that a drunk person should have a clear memory of what happened while they were drunk. If they don't have a clear memory of prior events it means they were blacked out.

 

[Jaxson]

Some answers here

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16043329/baby-lisas-parents-expected-to-move-back-into-home

Thanks for pointing out the updated story DeAnn. Lots of interesting detail there.

 

[Sparklin]

From what I've read (and experienced), no, not 'anybody/everyone' will black out if they drink enough. It's individual to the person. Some people, who are not frequent drinkers, will experience black outs after drinking a huge amount that is outside of their 'norm'. Some who are habitual drinkers experience them, but there's no pattern to the black outs (i.e., they can drink the same amount of vodka nights on end, but the black outs happen every once in a while...totally independent of how much they drank as their drink level is steady day in and day out). Some black outs are triggered by predicable events, some are random.

Black outs can be a symptom of alcohol dependency/addiction, but it can also occur in people without addiction.

When I was in college way back in the day, I learned that after drinking champagne, I had periods of 'black' over the course of a night. I would remember parts of the night's events (the beginning of the party, the middle, riding with a friend home...but the end of the party was a blank). After two successive New Year's parties with blacked-out periods, I simply stopped drinking champagne and did not experience a black out again...until a party as a working adult where I was served scotch. Now I have two 'no no' drinks that I won't touch.

DB stated that she did not remember checking on Baby Lisa before going to bed and had to be told by a neighbor that the lights were off by 11:30...that, to me, speaks of a black out, based on my own experience (or she's lying). In any case, if *my* child were in the custody of someone who had drank to the point of blacking out while being the sole person in charge of the household...you bet I'd be taking legal action. I don't know what RR's situation is, but I don't think it's 'convenient' for her to take action now...heck, I'd question her as a mother if she DIDN'T take action after learning that her son was being taken care of someone who...on the first night their dad worked late...drank so much that a large portion of the evening (based on DB's own words) are unknown.

And I must add...it's mighty convenient timing that the night DB drinks herself into what is, in my experience, a drunken black out, her baby is suddenly nowhere to be found.

I'm not convinced DB did anything other than drink. But I reserve the right to say that her drinking to excess when she was the sole caregiver was negligent, dangerous, and inexcusable...and, oh heck yes, I hope the boys' other parents aren't OK with that behavior.

Edited to add: A drunken 'black out' is not just passing out. The person who is blacked out is awake and 'functioning' on some level (though they are obviously drunk). It's called a black out because they cannot recall what happened during that time period even when prompted by others who witnessed their behavior/the events during the blacked out period. One of my champagne black outs included me literally dancing on top of a table (while wearing a grass skirt and motorcycle helmet)...I'd have thought my friends were lying if it weren't for the photos. Luckily for me, I was a 'happy' drunk...I had an uncle who drank heavily and would black out...he didn't remember the time he skinny-dipped at my cousin's graduation party, nor did her remember the time he punched a hole in the dining room wall because he was ready for the Christmas open house to be over (at 8 pm, an hour after it actually started...because he'd started drinking well before 5 that afternoon). I learned later that he would sometimes hit or shake my aunt after drinking. Sometimes he remembered and would minimize his behavior to my cousins, sometimes he'd ask when she'd fallen and bruised her arm/lip/neck.

Thanks...that's very frightening. I've recently experienced that same thing when I was in the hospital after my appendix ruptured and I thought I slept through some friends visit. A few days home and I uploaded my camera 'stuff' and there was a video of me sitting up talking to them and joking around...I started shaking like crazy because even watching it I couldn't remember. What a horrid experience. I was still normal though, I still asked for my toothbrush and changed the tv channel...I wasn't acting drugged or different. I guess from your info there is no way of knowing when or how...I think just one experience would ensure it didn't happen again. Sorry for going so off topic everyone - I just didn't realize you could drink enough/or any amount for that to happen...wow!

 

[Jaxson]

In essence, from what I've read and experienced and witnessed, if a person has a memory problem during the time they were drinking (i.e., they cannot remember a portion of the time they were drunk even after being prompted/reminded), then they were blacked out. There's no difference, IMO, between a memory 'lapse' and a black out. I was quite the partier in my teens (it was legal in my state at that point!) and in my 20s, and I did indeed have fuzzy moments where I could vaguely recall the ride home, stopping for a snack, calling an ex-boyfriend, etc. But that's the difference...I could remember vast parts of 'fuzzy' nights...the times I blacked out, I remembered NOTHING, even after being told what I'd done and even after I saw evidence of what I'd done.

Blacking out is like amnesia. A person is incapable of recalling the past, even when told in detail what happened. I've also read that alcohol related black outs are worse in people who experience anxiety.

I had amnesia after a car accident but I slowly began to recall the incident after a week or two. My husband has blackouts when he drinks Tequila (he won't even smell the stuff now) and has never remembered anything from those episodes.

 

[Sparklin]

Tacopina said the mother has not seen her son in six years even though she was allowed to have supervised visits with her son.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16043329/baby-lisas-parents-expected-to-move-back-into-home

bbm = I don't think that was because she didn't show up in court imo