Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11

[cityslick]

Some answers here

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16043329/baby-lisas-parents-expected-to-move-back-into-home

Thanks for that. I found this interesting:

According to court documents, Irwin filed for a declaration of paternity in 2005. Shortly thereafter, he won custody of his son. The mother was barred from having custody or control of her son.

That's a strong word to use that I bolded. If that really is the case, there's a story there with the mother, as it takes something for a judge to bar a mother from custody or control of her son.

Beyond all that though, I don't know anything about this woman so I have no idea if it would be a better enviroment. I do know that on the surface, it's pretty convienient how she is using this point in time to decide she wants to be a mother to her child, when obviously that wasn't as high a priority before.

 

[Jaxson]

Yes, so she is a stranger...not his mother. How very sad.

 

[Angelonline]

BBM. I wonder if this idiot had selective memory about his abusive behavior?

Quite possible, but he also did not remember, funny/crazy stuff that he did or said. I could tell by his face when he was to this state. It was like his face was longer than normal or that his jaw hung down. He would black out from drinking at least once per week.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Some answers here

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16043329/baby-lisas-parents-expected-to-move-back-into-home

@link:

It also comes the day after the mother of Irwin's son filed for custody of the 8-year-old boy. Tacopina said the mother has not seen her son in six years even though she was allowed to have supervised visits with her son.

"It's despicable to see a lady that hasn't seen her son or paid child support in six years all of a sudden claim to have an interest," Tacopina said.


According to court documents, Irwin filed for a declaration of paternity in 2005. Shortly thereafter, he won custody of his son. The mother was barred from having custody or control of her son.

Dorothy Savory, an attorney for Raim, said she filed the emergency motion because she is concerned about her son's well being in light of recent events. She said her son has always been in her thoughts and prayers.

"Now, more than ever, she is concerned about 'her baby's' safety, comfort and peace of mind," Savory said in a statement. "Rasleen misses her son and has always, and will forever, love him."

too little, too late

"supervised" visits? What was her problem that the court ordered that the visits had to be surpervised?

 

[jadejazzkayla]

I didn't say she was or wasn't drunk, I'm saying it doesn't prove she IS A DRUNK or a heavy drinker on a regular basis. :great: < maybe, but not a heavy drinker. JMHO

....and not a criminal either.

 

[rosiebean]

Thanks. So its your belief that a drunk person should have a clear memory of what happened while they were drunk. If they don't have a clear memory of prior events it means they were blacked out.

No. There's a difference between a 'fuzzy' memory and no memory whatsoever.

Here's an example:

Imagine you're at work. It's 4:00 in the afternoon and you're finishing a report for your boss. The next thing you know, it's 8:00 and you're at the sink washing the night's dinner dishes. You have no memory whatsoever between 4:00 o'clock and sitting at your computer and 8:00 o'clock and washing dirty dinner dishes. The four hours in between are literally a blank. Your co-worker who brought you home took a video on his phone of you sitting in the back seat complaining loudly about the report that you wrote for your boss...it made everyone in the carpool crack up, a rant for the ages...yet you remember *nothing*. It's as though the four hours in between your writing the report and your washing dishes did not occur. There's nothing vague or fuzzy or almost there...there's NOTHING at all.

That's a black out.

A fuzzy memory is you vaguely remembering driving home...and people laughing at something you said, and you remember stopping at McDonald's, and while you remember getting something and eating it, you don't remember if you had a burger or fries or both..but when your coworker re-tells your joke to you the next day and asks about the hot dude at the drive through, you remember more and remember that you had nuggets. That kind of scenario is the kind of thing I experienced most when I was a partying college student. I had a lot of 'fuzzy' nights, where I remember being out, laughing, etc., but not every single detail. A blackout was when I remembered NOTHING at all in between.

 

[Jacie Estes]

In da Middle is right again. They split in 2005. JI sued for declaration of paternity in 2005 and won custody. RR got supervised visits, which Tacopina says she has not exercised.

:goodpost:

 

[rosiebean]

I had amnesia after a car accident but I slowly began to recall the incident after a week or two. My husband has blackouts when he drinks Tequila (he won't even smell the stuff now) and has never remembered anything from those episodes.

Yes...that's why I said it's *like* amnesia (not that is IS amnesia). Someone who has experienced amnesia can understand that experience how a certain portion of their life is a complete blank (though they may get that memory back over time). In a drunken black out, that complete blank does not come back to the person...ever.

 

[In da Middle]

If you go here and type in her name, you will see that there are two court filings related to paternity/child custody with JI, the first one in filed on May 31, 2005: https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchCases.do?searchType=name

But as InDaMiddle is a resident in JI's neighborhood, I expect she also has personal knowledge.

Yep. Very familiar with the person involved in those 3 years that was not RR nor DB.

 

[Jaxson]

Yes...that's why I said it's *like* amnesia (not that is IS amnesia). Someone who has experienced amnesia can understand that experience how a certain portion of their life is a complete blank (though they may get that memory back over time). In a drunken black out, that complete blank does not come back to the person...ever.

Sorry Rosie, reading my post I realize it sounded different than I had intended. I know what a black out is like because I had amnesia. I also know that some people never recover from amnesia. I understood what you were saying in the first place. I was agreeing in my own silly way.

It is a very scary feeling...there were two little kids with me in that wreck...I didn't know they were mine but I helped them out of the car and asked them questions about who they were and how they got there. Scared the bejesus out of my babies.

 

[In da Middle]

Thanks for that. I found this interesting:

According to court documents, Irwin filed for a declaration of paternity in 2005. Shortly thereafter, he won custody of his son. The mother was barred from having custody or control of her son.

That's a strong word to use that I bolded. If that really is the case, there's a story there with the mother, as it takes something for a judge to bar a mother from custody or control of her son.

Beyond all that though, I don't know anything about this woman so I have no idea if it would be a better enviroment. I do know that on the surface, it's pretty convienient how she is using this point in time to decide she wants to be a mother to her child, when obviously that wasn't as high a priority before.

Yes, 6 years of not even seeing him and another 6 weeks to even be concerned about his CURRENT situation. I MIGHT have some sympathy for her if she did this immediately, but she waited 6 WEEKS!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

No. There's a difference between a 'fuzzy' memory and no memory whatsoever.

Here's an example:

Imagine you're at work. It's 4:00 in the afternoon and you're finishing a report for your boss. The next thing you know, it's 8:00 and you're at the sink washing the night's dinner dishes. You have no memory whatsoever between 4:00 o'clock and sitting at your computer and 8:00 o'clock and washing dirty dinner dishes. The four hours in between are literally a blank. Your co-worker who brought you home took a video on his phone of you sitting in the back seat complaining loudly about the report that you wrote for your boss...it made everyone in the carpool crack up, a rant for the ages...yet you remember *nothing*. It's as though the four hours in between your writing the report and your washing dishes did not occur. There's nothing vague or fuzzy or almost there...there's NOTHING at all.

That's a black out.

I understand what a blackout is. My question was can a drunk person have memory problems without having a blackout? I have a hard time believing that every intoxicated person is a walking blackout. Maybe I'm wrong here.

 

[rosiebean]

Yes, so she is a stranger...not his mother. How very sad.

Yes, I agree, it's terribly sad for the child that his mother is a stranger. I do not understand having legal access to your child and not following through with it. I just cannot comprehend not taking advantage of every opportunity to be with your child.

That said, tRR's qualifications as a mother says *nothing* about JI and DB's qualifications as caregivers. IMO and all.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes, 6 years of not even seeing hims and another 6 weeks to even be concerned about his CURRENT situation. I MIGHT havesome sympathy for her if she did this immediately, but she waited 6 WEEKS!

I listened to the Levi show tonight and the family law attorney he had as his guest made a good point. Kim Picazio said that a custody depo was like free discovery for LE in this case. If you claim the 5th, you lose. So either you endure what she described as grueling questioning, or you lose custody of your kid. LE is first in line to get the transcripts of the deposition.

So the timing of this is very interesting.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Yes, 6 years of not even seeing hims and another 6 weeks to even be concerned about his CURRENT situation. I MIGHT havesome sympathy for her if she did this immediately, but she waited 6 WEEKS!

imo LE had a hand in suggesting this route to this woman and her family in a lame attempt to influence lisa's parents - and it reminds me of the failed murder for hire sting debacle in the kyron horman case for those who follow his kidnapping case.

 

[rosiebean]

I understand what a blackout is. My question was can a drunk person have memory problems without having a blackout? I have a hard time believing that every intoxicated person is a walking blackout. Maybe I'm wrong here.

I don't understand what you mean by 'memory problems' then.

Is a 'memory problem' not remembering huge chunks of the night? Or is it not remembering some details while remembering the overall actions of the night?

In my experience (as someone drunk and as someone who was stone cold sober while others were drunk), yes, a drunk person usually has 'fuzzy' memories of their evening (or day...it doesn't always happen at night). They will remember what bar(s) they went to, they will remember a general accounting of what they drank, what band was playing, the drive home, the stop at exxon to fill up and get sodas, and walking into their friends' house and throwing a blanket over the sofa in the basement. They might NOT remember the exact order of what they drank, the exact order of the songs the band played, if they got a coke or pepsi at exxon, and what color blanket they slept on. But the overall framework/narrative is there, even if some details are cloudy. A drunk person not experiencing a black out would remember heading to bed (they might not remember if they brushed their teeth before or after they let the dog out, but they would have pieces of memories of the dog running out of the door and of leaning over a sink while they brushed).

Someone in a blackout would have no memories of any of that at all.

So, yes, in my experience, a drunk person can have memory 'problems'. These problems are manifested by an inability to recall specific details of an overall experience that is intact from start to finish...not in forgetting the entire experience altogether.

In my experience, as I said, and IMHO.

 

[menmo]

Yep. Very familiar with the person involved in those 3 years that was not RR nor DB.

Thanks. I always appreciate you being close enough and kind enough to keep us more informed.

I really want to know why the supervised visits for the mom. As for the barred from control and custody of the child, I'd like to see the Judge's document sheet and the decree to see if that is the actual word he used. However,seeing the supervised visits, I must admit worry me. My ex had supervised visits ordered through the courts and supervised by DFS.
Maybe it was ordered in 2008 for her child to softly be introduced back into her life? I know, I know, but wishing for the child's sake!

MOO

 

[Minette]

I listened to the Levi show tonight and the family law attorney he had as his guest made a good point. Kim Picazio said that a custody depo was like free discovery for LE in this case. If you claim the 5th, you lose. So either you endure what she described as grueling questioning, or you lose custody of your kid. LE is first in line to get the transcripts of the deposition.

So the timing of this is very interesting.

I desperately want Lisa to be found and those responsible to be brought to justice but I would question the integrity of LE if they used a little boy's future & happiness as leverage to force his father to 'talk.'

Some might feel it is a good idea, but I don't consider the two boys expendable.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't understand what you mean by 'memory problems' then.

Is a 'memory problem' not remembering huge chunks of the night? Or is it not remembering some details while remembering the overall actions of the night?

In my experience (as someone drunk and as someone who was stone cold sober while others were drunk), yes, a drunk person usually has 'fuzzy' memories of their evening (or day...it doesn't always happen at night). They will remember what bar(s) they went to, they will remember a general accounting of what they drank, what band was playing, the drive home, the stop at exxon to fill up and get sodas, and walking into their friends' house and throwing a blanket over the sofa in the basement. They might NOT remember the exact order of what they drank, the exact order of the songs the band played, if they got a coke or pepsi at exxon, and what color blanket they slept on. But the overall framework/narrative is there, even if some details are cloudy. A drunk person not experiencing a black out would remember heading to bed (they might not remember if they brushed their teeth before or after they let the dog out, but they would have pieces of memories of the dog running out of the door and of leaning over a sink while they brushed).

Someone in a blackout would have no memories of any of that at all.

So, yes, in my experience, a drunk person can have memory 'problems'. These problems are manifested by an inability to recall specific details of an overall experience that is intact from start to finish...not in forgetting the entire experience altogether.

In my experience, as I said, and IMHO.

BBM
This part here sounds pretty good to me. So specific times of happenings could be off. Things like that? Small details, like did I lock the front door?

 

[Mustang Sally]

I just want to say in the defense of this bio mom. . .I think you all need to go back and read the court dockets.

It's a pretty good outline of what happened.

There's an administrative order filed in 2008 which gets denied.

Two months later is the hearing where RR didn't appear. . .but neither did her attorney! What does that tell us? Attorneys show up for court hearings unless there is a scheduling snafu.

A week later RR files for temporary custody through her attorney. (I take that to mean that JI had physically custody at that time. What does that mean? Maybe he kicked her out. Maybe she left.)

A few days later JI is served with the summons to appear and both JI and RR are sent a parenting plan, booklet and pamphlet.

Another hearing is missed by RR AND her attorney.

Shortlly after that an answer to the motion for temporary custody is filed by JI's attorney.

Several months later we have "Parent Education Not Excused" with regards to both JI and RR. I take that to mean that they were both ordered to take parent education classes, but hadn't yet.

A month late we have the same "Parent Education Not Excused"

Three months later we have a motion to dismiss by JI's attorney for "failure to prosecute." My question is failure to prosecute what??? I have my suspicions. All MOO but my brother is a family court prosecutor and tries mostly DV cases. . .and nothing pisses him off more than "failure to prosecute."

Three months later we have a hearing, which btw JI didn't show up to either, only the attorneys present, where the motion to dismiss was sustained. Idk what the story is but the court didn't grant the temporary custody to RR because of the "failure to prosecute" filing.

A month later the motion is sustained "without prejudice."

Sooooo. . .it doesn't sound like RR didn't want her son and just didn't care or show up. I don't know what the ins and outs of the story is, but there are things that can be inferred from the court dockets. . . none of which support some of the things that have been thrown around here.

MOO

My Biggest Question...Does this state use Guardian ad Litem's???

These poor kids deserve to have "Someone" looking after their best interest!!

In Florida we have a Guardian ad Litem assigned to ALL children who are under the State's Division of Child & Family Services...I have been serving as on for the last 5 years.

Who in the world is listening to the "Wishes of the Children???"...

In Florida the Guardian ad Litem is an officer of the Court and is given the responsiblity of representing "THE CHILD"....not either of the parents, grandparents, legal guardians, the state DCF/Welfare officals....We listen to the wishes of the child...If they are too young to express their wishes, we learn as much about the child as we can and give our recomendation to the Court/Judge.

Who in the he77 is talking to and representing these Sad Children???

Dear God...Please let us know where Baby Lisa Is and Bring Some Closure to this Disappearence...and Take care of ALL the Children!!