Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas #2

[Donjeta]

It certainly doesn't look to me that DCF had any reunification plan in place until Polanowicz came up with one.

Well no because the parents weren't cooperating. They were threatening workers, trying to prevent Justina being moved to a facility where a reunification plan could be put into effect etc.

They were going to place her in a facility in Connecticut in June a year ago.
Had that gone smoothly it would have been the first step in a reunification plan.

But Lou wanted it otherwise.

 

[believe09]

I cant imagine playing nice in a situation where DCF and BCH have taken your child out of treatment and put her in lock down for more than a year. I would have been howling at the moon and raising a ruckus as well. It would take more than heroic effort to be acquiescent under those circumstances-imagine if your sincere belief was that your child was being actively harmed by a treatment plan which was 180 degrees from the one that had been in place, with some success, for a long while. Imagine if you were told that you couldn't be a decision maker for your child. YOUR child. Because a set of physicians, unfamiliar with your child, had determined that she wasn't physically unwell but was psychologically unwell.

It makes me wild just thinking about it. There is something very wrong from start to finish with this situation, and while I hope Justina can heal in the arms of her family, I hope and pray that there are true answers regarding it.

 

[believe09]

Well no because the parents weren't cooperating. They were threatening workers, trying to prevent Justina being moved to a facility where a reunification plan could be put into effect etc.

They were going to place her in a facility in Connecticut in June a year ago.
Had that gone smoothly it would have been the first step in a reunification plan.

But Lou wanted it otherwise.

Lou wanted his child returned under his terms.

 

[believe09]

Linda's statement that "they will not file a lawsuit" is clearly false. And if it's not clear already, that is my opinion. I am pretty sure there will be a lawsuit filed once they get the custody back.

I think the discovery process will be quite interesting, on both sides.

 

[CHICANA]

I'm having great difficultly understanding the apparent inability of some to hold more that two concepts at once in ones mind.

I'm not sure if it's a deliberate attempt to misconstrue other peoples' posts or there is some sort of disconnect going on.

I'm going to state my beliefs one more time.

IMO it's not either or...she likely has multiple issues some of which are medical and some psychological. Both need to be addressed.

The parents did not have their child removed from their custody because they're annoying.

It's ridiculous to repeatedly state if it were all, or in part psychological, she would be cured by now. That's ludicrous.

She was not healthy and ice skating the day she arrived at Children's.

She's a child in need of complex care that includes a psychological approach in addition to addressing her medical needs. A coordination and oversight of Justina's care is imperative.

The child NEEDS her parents to accept that and be a part of the team that wants nothing more than to see this child as well as she can possibly be by addressing ALL of her needs as laid out by her PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL TEAM.






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children are supposed to be removed from their parents care if they refused or at risk of abuse. They already had a team, the new team decided the old team was wrong.

 

[CHICANA]

Lou wanted his child returned under his terms.

she is his child and he didn't abuse her.

 

[Donjeta]

Lou wanted his child returned under his terms.

That's fine when you're the ruler of the world and everybody plays by your rules but if you're not, exhibiting uncontrolled aggression could only mean that it would take longer for your child to be returned.

 

[Donjeta]

I cant imagine playing nice in a situation where DCF and BCH have taken your child out of treatment and put her in lock down for more than a year. I would have been howling at the moon and raising a ruckus as well. It would take more than heroic effort to be acquiescent under those circumstances-imagine if your sincere belief was that your child was being actively harmed by a treatment plan which was 180 degrees from the one that had been in place, with some success, for a long while. Imagine if you were told that you couldn't be a decision maker for your child. YOUR child. Because a set of physicians, unfamiliar with your child, had determined that she wasn't physically unwell but was psychologically unwell.

It makes me wild just thinking about it. There is something very wrong from start to finish with this situation, and while I hope Justina can heal in the arms of her family, I hope and pray that there are true answers regarding it.

Justina hadn't been locked up for a year back then, only for a few months, and they were planning to release her from Bader 5.

I don't understand why it's so hard to imagine playing nice. It doesn't mean you have to like anything that is going on but it only takes a minimal amount of intelligence to realize that if you're being suspected of harming your child somehow your image won't improve if you abuse and threaten the workers who are trying to do their jobs. Any adult can state their opinion about the case and their child's treatment without making threats. If they can't control themselves that much they shouldn't be parenting.

It's horrible and unfair if your children were taken for unjust, false reasons but regardless of the reasons, when the damage is done and the children are in the system, the parents need to do whatever it takes to get them back. Having temper tantrums and acting like you need anger management courses are extremely unlikely to help to achieve that goal. Generally the best strategy is to try to act like an adult who has the child's best interests in mind.

 

[MCDRAW]

Angry at DCF? Why? They had no choice: doctors are mandated reporters , so by state law they had to report their concerns to DCF, and that meant DCF had to get involved. That's something NG should certainly know.

But she is about as good a lawyer as Keith ("I've never even talked to this person but I am diagnosing him/her anyway") Ablow is a doctor. They are TV personalities and publicity hounds, not respected professionals, IMO.

Have any of you ever read your children's medical reports? I have a daughter that has a heart defect. We found out when she was two months old. I took her back to the cardiologist when she was 5 because I noticed some problems. Well, this doctor treated me as if I was retarded because I am physically challenged. It happens rarely but it has happened a few times. My daughter is 16 now. I told her pediatrician that maybe we should have him recheck her now that she is older. She said, this is what he said at your last visit and handed me a copy of what he said. He put in his report that he tried to teach me to take her heart rate but I said I couldn't do it. He said, he had to teach the 5 year old. My daughter read that and said, mom he lied about you. And just like that, child services could have been involved. And what he put in his report was a lie. So I don't consider doctors to be the best mandated reporters.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Lou wanted his child returned under his terms.

How has that been working out for Justina?


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[Linda7NJ]

children are supposed to be removed from their parents care if they refused or at risk of abuse. They already had a team, the new team decided the old team was wrong.

That is not true.
They did not have a cohesive team in place before. That's been well documented.




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[jjenny]

That is not true.
They did not have a cohesive team in place before. That's been well documented.




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She has been treated at Tufts. Which is the same place DCF insists she be treated at now.
Which is kind of bizarre, if DCF still believed she was correctly diagnosed at BCH but not in Tufts.
In fact if DCF thinks parents are guilty of medical abuse, it's even more bizarre, considering her cecostomy surgery took place at Tufts.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Angry at DCF? Why? They had no choice: doctors are mandated reporters , so by state law they had to report their concerns to DCF, and that meant DCF had to get involved. That's something NG should certainly know.

But she is about as good a lawyer as Keith ("I've never even talked to this person but I am diagnosing him/her anyway") Ablow is a doctor. They are TV personalities and publicity hounds, not respected professionals, IMO.

She is usually prostate regardless so I was surprised. She has been upset at the CPS lately because of so many children who die on their watch. She said they had seen medical records proving that Tufts doctors did diagnose and order all medical care before this. She feels the BCH and DCF were wrong. Also, it was the top story on the Drudge report yesterday.

 

[CathyinTexas]

This is spot on. We have suspected this of a friend of the family and her adult daughter. Not doctor shopping for pain meds, but a diagnosis they "wanted" if that makes sense. The mom took her daughter to a neighboring state and the ER doctor put a stop to it. Docs in the neighboring state demanded the daughter's med history, last visits and permission to obtain all records. She (the daughter was on medicaid) the hospital wouldn't take out of state medicaid without access to all tests, etc. They checked out of the hospital against the doctor's advice as soon as her medical history was in play. Doc shopping across state lines. Sound familiar?

It is not uncommon for children with complex medical issues to be seen in other states by doctors or facilities who are known experts in specific diseases/conditions.

 

[CathyinTexas]

That is not true.
They did not have a cohesive team in place before. That's been well documented.




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Dr. Flores was the Gastroenterologist who saw her at Tufts, Dr. Korson was the Metobolic specialist who saw her at Tufts. Because Dr. Flores moved to BCH Dr. Korson advised that she be seen by him. I do think the two of them were a team at Tufts when they saw Justina. It made sense she would be seen by Dr. Flores who knew her. But she was hijacked (my words) by those with an agenda, imo.

 

[octobermoon]

It is not uncommon for children with complex medical issues to be seen in other states by doctors or facilities who are known experts in specific diseases/conditions.

I agree. The family I am talking about is from a small state, Wyo. Most of the specialists come in once a month to see patients with complex issues. My own mother will have to travel to Colorado for cataract surgery next month.

My point was the mother in this case went across state lines thinking if she took her daughter to the ER they would have to treat her. Give her more tests, etc. Find a different diagnosis than the one two other independent docs had confirmed. The "charity" type teaching hospital flat out said they were doctor shopping and would not treat her and threatened to inform the authorities. This mother and adult daughter don't agree with the diagnosis she has, the treatment plan (weaning off all drugs, possible permanent feeding tube) and would not give permission to transfer all her medical records for review. They were hopping mad to be called out. The mother even tried to get her into the Mayo Clinic but they wouldn't take her because of what the two other docs found.

Sometimes a duck is a duck. Sometimes people will go to great lengths to manipulate to get what they want and not what they need.

imo jmo moo

 

[CHICANA]

Her statements on the video came through clearly. What is not clear is if she is cognitively and psychologically capable of making this sort of decision. It is also not clear what impact, if any, being with her family when the video was made had on the statements she was making. Were they actually her thoughts or was she following a "script" given to her by the family? Nobody could possibly know the answer to this unless they were actually in attendance.

The public does not know what Justina said during her official testimony in December 2013. The public does not know her capacity to make important decisions. The care and custody of a chronically ill teenager (who may have significant mental impairment) is very different from the care and custody of an average 16 year old girl.

Justina's father has made statements that indicate that she is functioning at the level of a 5 to 7 year old child academically. That indicates that there is likely a deficit in cognitive and decision making ability. Without her psychological, medical, and academic records (which have not been released to the public) it is impossible to make accurate judgements on this case. That is why there is a juvenile court judge tasked with this responsibility.

You asked if I thought the parents are dangerous. In some respects, yes I do. I think their decision making ability has repeatedly been shown to be deficient. I think that her father has shown anger management issues. I think the family's telling of this story has changed over time and at times they have trouble keeping the story straight. To me, that indicates un-truthfulness. I think that her parents' insistence that she has 'Mito' and only 'Mito' shows a dangerous level of single mindedness that could well put Justina at risk in their care. Patients with chronic disease (be it Mito or something else) are not immune to developing other problems and illnesses. A group of highly educated well informed physicians obviously felt that the symptoms she was displaying in February 2013 were out of line with a Mitochondrial Disease diagnosis. The parents decision to publicly pronounce the Tufts physicians to be somehow superior in specialization, training, or intellect is, quite frankly, laughable and shows poor logic and interpretation skills. Yes, I think she could well be in danger in their care.

When Justina is returned to the parents custody, I predict that she will eventually begin experiencing significant medical issues that she has apparently not been experiencing at either JRI or Wayside. We don't know what, if any, medical issues she experienced at BCH because that information would exist in the medical records that have not been released to the public. We know that she has not experienced issues at JRI or Wayside because she has not been rushed by ambulance to any hospital while in their care. (Other then the one ER visit disclosed by her parents. That visit did not result in admission to a hospital.)

All of the above is, of course, just my opinion.

In response to your statement that you think their decision making ability has repeatedly been shown to be deficient.

IMO the decision making ability of the state and CPS has repeatedly been shown to be deficient. They have a horrible history/record when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable. Wonder how many kids remained in seriously abusive homes because the state was so busy making sure JP stayed in the psych ward for a year ?
I see nothing to indicate that the Pelletiers are a danger to Justina.

 

[Linda7NJ]

In response to your statement that you think their decision making ability has repeatedly been shown to be deficient.



IMO the decision making ability of the state and CPS has repeatedly been shown to be deficient. They have a horrible history/record when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable. Wonder how many kids remained in seriously abusive homes because the state was so busy making sure JP stayed in the psych ward for a year ?

I see nothing to indicate that the Pelletiers are a danger to Justina.

In this case, unlike most CPS cases they relied heavily on the medical experts and medical evidence & records and those that reported, as required by LAW...SUSPECTED abuse.

IMO


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[sweetmom]

In response to your statement that you think their decision making ability has repeatedly been shown to be deficient.

IMO the decision making ability of the state and CPS has repeatedly been shown to be deficient. They have a horrible history/record when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable. Wonder how many kids remained in seriously abusive homes because the state was so busy making sure JP stayed in the psych ward for a year ?
I see nothing to indicate that the Pelletiers are a danger to Justina.

Let me try again: If you think keeping Justina in Bader for a year was harmful to her, and I think you do, then the Pelletiers were a danger to their own child. That is because it has been amply reported in the MSM that they torpedoed the chance after just a few months to move Justina to a CT facility near their home as the interim step to having her home. The hospital and DCF were in favor of moving her out of Bader. The parents also blocked several interim placements in MA, by threatening lawsuits and picketing. That is what kept Justina in Bader. They are to blame, IMO.

 

[annahanna]

In response to your statement that you think their decision making ability has repeatedly been shown to be deficient.

IMO the decision making ability of the state and CPS has repeatedly been shown to be deficient. They have a horrible history/record when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable. Wonder how many kids remained in seriously abusive homes because the state was so busy making sure JP stayed in the psych ward for a year ?
I see nothing to indicate that the Pelletiers are a danger to Justina.

Let me try again: If you think keeping Justina in Bader for a year was harmful to her, and I think you do, then the Pelletiers were a danger to their own child. That is because it has been amply reported in the MSM that they torpedoed the chance after just a few months to move Justina to a CT facility near their home as the interim step to having her home. The hospital and DCF were in favor of moving her out of Bader. The parents also blocked several interim placements in MA, by threatening lawsuits and picketing. That is what kept Justina in Bader. They are to blame, IMO.

Exactly sweetmom! Their repeated sabotage of any transfer for Justina is what kept her at BCH for so long. This is just one of the many examples of the poor decision making on the part of the parents.

Just today, they started a phone campaign to demand the release of Justina in time for Father's Day. I would think that if this was a goal, they would have started to ask for it long before the Friday before the Sunday holiday?? (Earlier this week it was "release her today or release her immediately.") Now they are expressing disbelief and outrage when they are told it is too late to get her home in time for Father's Day. I would think that at this point, they would understand that releasing Justina is not an instantaneous process.

I just hope that they have not set this kid up for another disappointment by leading her to believe that she would be home by Father's Day. (Just My Opinion)