Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas #2

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  • #641
If Judge Johnston agrees to return custody to Justina’s parents, that will probably put the responsibility for monitoring the case in Connecticut’s lap. Not only is Justina a resident of Connecticut, but the child welfare agency in that state had previously substantiated a claim of child neglect (or medical child abuse) against the parents, which then created an “open” case with some ongoing oversight of the family.

“Massachusetts authorities believe that since there is an open protective case in Connecticut, then Connecticut will be in more of a position to monitor Justina’s progress if Massachusetts is out of the loop,” said an official who has been involved in the case but requested anonymity because of juvenile court restrictions.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...her-parents/CrVnLiKTpa3sBo0nhkrz1J/story.html



“When she’s officially released,” her father said, “the healing can begin. Until then, we’re going to keep full pressure on the judge and the state of Massachusetts.”

This is a sad comment imo. There were many things that could have been done to begin healing a long time ago but the parents don't seem to see that.
 
  • #642
Her state appointed lawyer long ago agreed she should be home with family.
The Liberty Counsel has claimed that Justina's attorney "agreed" that a Justina should be allowed to go home. However, in his videotaped statement immediately after filing the family's 60B motion, the Pelletier's attorney of record (Philip Moran) contradicted himself on that issue.

As I noted when I originally posted this, this is not an official transcript but my transcription of the video. You are welcome to listen to it for yourself.

Attorney Philip Moran:
"I filed a motion on behalf of Lou and Linda Pelletier this morning at about noon time."
.....
"We had indications from both DCF and Nancy Hathaway who is the attorney for Justina that they would not …. DCF would not oppose it, Nancy Hathaway indicated that she would assent to the motion, so that she could get home."
.

Nancy Hathaway joined them in chambers after a chance meeting. She indicated that she:
"Has not read it but she would probably ascent to it"
After leaving chambers, Attorney Hathaway called the DCF attorneys who said that "they had not actually received it but that they requested two weeks to respond to it."
These statements do not indicate that Attorney Hathaway "long ago agreed she should be home with family." It also foes not indicate that the MA Department of Children bad Families was inclined to bow to pressure and respond before June 13th.


http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14100&PRID=1446

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cy1eVtJvoI&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop
 
  • #643
If Judge Johnston agrees to return custody to Justina’s parents, that will probably put the responsibility for monitoring the case in Connecticut’s lap. Not only is Justina a resident of Connecticut, but the child welfare agency in that state had previously substantiated a claim of child neglect (or medical child abuse) against the parents, which then created an “open” case with some ongoing oversight of the family.

“Massachusetts authorities believe that since there is an open protective case in Connecticut, then Connecticut will be in more of a position to monitor Justina’s progress if Massachusetts is out of the loop,” said an official who has been involved in the case but requested anonymity because of juvenile court restrictions.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...her-parents/CrVnLiKTpa3sBo0nhkrz1J/story.html

Sounds like an attempt to save face. Considering judge already reprimanded CT DCF for not wanting to be involved in this case.
So, these anonymous officials can make all kind of claims, it's hardly sounds convincing to me.
 
  • #644
The Liberty Counsel has claimed that Justina's attorney "agreed" that a Justina should be allowed to go home. However, in his videotaped statement immediately after filing the family's 60B motion, the Pelletier's attorney of record (Philip Moran) contradicted himself on that issue.

As I noted when I originally posted this, this is not an official transcript but my transcription of the video. You are welcome to listen to it for yourself.

.

. These statements do not indicate that Attorney Hathaway "long ago agreed she should be home with family." It also foes not indicate that the MA Department of Children bad Families was inclined to bow to pressure and respond before June 13th.


http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14100&PRID=1446

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cy1eVtJvoI&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

If Justina's attorney didn't agree that Justina should be home with family, why was she filing motions to that effect?

"The motion presented by the court-appointed lawyer for Justina and the lawyers for her parents, Linda and Lou Pelletier of West Hartford, Conn., calls for the parents to be awarded “conditional custody” of their 15-year-old daughter."


http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...return-home/LdU7aWZj1LdtRwOTGjFl8M/story.html
 
  • #645
(Respectfully snipped for space- KZ)

You asked if I thought the parents are dangerous. In some respects, yes I do. I think their decision making ability has repeatedly been shown to be deficient. I think that her father has shown anger management issues. I think the family's telling of this story has changed over time and at times they have trouble keeping the story straight. To me, that indicates un-truthfulness. I think that her parents' insistence that she has 'Mito' and only 'Mito' shows a dangerous level of single mindedness that could well put Justina at risk in their care. Patients with chronic disease (be it Mito or something else) are not immune to developing other problems and illnesses. A group of highly educated well informed physicians obviously felt that the symptoms she was displaying in February 2013 were out of line with a Mitochondrial Disease diagnosis. The parents decision to publicly pronounce the Tufts physicians to be somehow superior in specialization, training, or intellect is, quite frankly, laughable and shows poor logic and interpretation skills. Yes, I think she could well be in danger in their care.

Excellent post, thank you. A very clear analysis, IMO.

Bold by me. I strongly agree that the parents are both dangerous people, IMO. From what I have seen of the parents public behavior, I do think they are a danger to Justina. But not in a physically violent way-- a more insidious and psychologically manipulative kind of "dangerous." (Frankly, I think they are a danger to anyone who does not agree with them.)

They are both very unstable, impulsive, combative, vindictive personalities, IMO. Full of rage and hate. And this isn't the first time-- these folks are proud of being so "difficult" in many different aspects of their lives.

I do think ultimately Justina will be returned to them. I sincerely doubt that is in her best interest, however much she might want it to happen. I think the parents will comply just barely enough to meet whatever criteria was agreed on to regain custody. The minute they have custody again, they will be non-compliant, and even more belligerent, IMO. But I doubt that anyone will forcibly remove Justina when that happens. She will go home to them, but this won't be the end. Lou has at least 10 years of raging about this situation in him, IMO-- while he "changes careers" and sets up a run for some kind of elected office.
 
  • #646
What are they going to be non-compliant about? Once MA DCF loses custody, it's going to have no leg to stand on. Considering Justina is CT resident.
As for personalities, people are allowed to have whatever personality they want. Again, it's a free country. Nobody has to be all fuzzy and cuddly unless they want to.
 
  • #647
If Justina's attorney didn't agree that Justina should be home with family, why was she filing motions to that effect?

"The motion presented by the court-appointed lawyer for Justina and the lawyers for her parents, Linda and Lou Pelletier of West Hartford, Conn., calls for the parents to be awarded “conditional custody” of their 15-year-old daughter."


http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...return-home/LdU7aWZj1LdtRwOTGjFl8M/story.html
You have quoted a very old article. Much has changed since then - including the "permanent" loss of custody and a Pelletier family change of attorneys.

Judge to rule on Conn. girl’s custody by week’s end

By Neil Swidey | GLOBE STAFF MARCH 18, 2014[
 
  • #648
Here is another msm article. Pretty clear that DCF filed this brief.

"A spokesman for Polanowicz said in a statement that DCF had filed papers in court “to support our shared goal of bringing Justina home.”"
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...her-parents/CrVnLiKTpa3sBo0nhkrz1J/story.html


The goal was always reunification.

I'm quite certain DCF isn't going to close out the case. I would think they'd stick around to monitor for at least six months after she actually returns home.

All IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #649
You have quoted an very old article. Much has changed since then,

Judge to rule on Conn. girl’s custody by week’s end

By Neil Swidey | GLOBE STAFF MARCH 18, 2014[

Doesn't it support my claim that Justina's court appointed attorney agreed long ago she should return home?
What exactly do you expect me to quote for that?
 
  • #650
The goal was always reunification.

I'm quite certain DCF isn't going to close out the case. I would think they'd stick around to monitor for at least six months after she actually returns home.

All IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am not sure as to why MA DCF should be monitoring a CT resident.
Is MA DCF going to go to other states now to monitor children that reside in these states?
Doesn't it have its own children to monitor, or did MA somehow run out of children?
 
  • #651
Seriously?
CT DCF that was reprimanded by the judge for not wanting to get involved in the case. You expect it to file a brief?
Wayside? She is already gone from there. Why would you expect it to file any briefs?
Her pediatrician in CT who presumably hasn't seen her in over 15 months?
What basis does he/she have to file any briefs?
Dr. Flores? Why in the world would he file a brief?
Officials from Ben Bronz Academy? Again, why in the world would they file any briefs?
As for MA DCF, it apparently already filed a brief saying that she should go home.
What other brief do you expect it to file?
Seriously. Each entity I listed has had a hand in Justina's care or treatment. Each is a mandated reported of suspected or observed child abuse. Each has a valid informed opinion as to the resolution of this case and the long term health and well being of the child in question. The judge set a deadline of June 13, 2014 to file evidence, documentation, or legal briefs in this case. Until that date any of the parties I listed has the right to come forward.

I am sorry that you don't like it (IMO) but the legal system does follow set rules in these matters.

And since msm is reporting that MA DCF filed this brief, what is your basis for claiming it to be wrong?

I have a number of reasons for believing that there is an error in reporting. (IMO)
*As previously stated, I believe that there is a misunderstanding on the part of some reporters that HHS and DCF are not interchangeable.
*The a Liberty Counsel has not issued a press release about a DCF filing. They did about the HHS filing.
*Rev Mahoney, a prolific tweeter, has not tweeted about a DCF filing. He did about the HHS filing. **
*A Miracle For Justina Facebook did not post about a DCF filing. They did post about the HHS filing. **
*There has been no press release (that I am aware of) from DCF about a filing.
*HHS has verbally confirmed that HHS has filed a brief.

**Both have posted links to news stories about HHS/DCF filings. I do not believe that is the same as posting "factually" about an issue.
 
  • #652
Doesn't it support my claim that Justina's court appointed attorney agreed long ago she should return home?
What exactly do you expect me to quote for that?
No it does not support your claim. While Attorney Hathaway was part of a joint motion sometime before March to broker a situation allowing Justina to return home, the situation has changed dramatically since that filing. (And we don't even know all of the true details of that filing.). On Friday May 30th she was quoted by the Pelletier's attorney as saying she "has not read it but she would probably ascent to it." The later statement is more reflective of the current situation.
 
  • #653
No it does not support your claim. While Attorney Hathaway was part of a joint motion sometime before March to broker a situation allowing Justina to return home, the situation has changed dramatically since that filing. (And we don't even know all of the true details of that filing.). On Friday May 30th she was quoted by the Pelletier's attorney as saying she "has not read it but she would probably ascent to it." The later statement is more reflective of the current situation.

Assent, not ascent. Assent means agree. She would agree with the motion filed by Pelletier attorneys. So I am really confused as to what you think is different about the situation from earlier this year?


as·sent
[uh-sent] Show IPA
"verb (used without object)
1.
to agree or concur; subscribe to (often followed by to ): to assent to a statement.
2.
to give in; yield; concede: Assenting to his demands, I did as I was told.
noun
3.
agreement, as to a proposal; concurrence.
4.
acquiescence; compliance."


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assent?s=t
 
  • #654

Seriously. Each entity I listed has had a hand in Justina's care or treatment. Each is a mandated reported of suspected or observed child abuse. Each has a valid informed opinion as to the resolution of this case and the long term health and well being of the child in question. The judge set a deadline of June 13, 2014 to file evidence, documentation, or legal briefs in this case. Until that date any of the parties I listed has the right to come forward.

I am sorry that you don't like it (IMO) but the legal system does follow set rules in these matters.



I have a number of reasons for believing that there is an error in reporting. (IMO)
*As previously stated, I believe that there is a misunderstanding on the part of some reporters that HHS and DCF are not interchangeable.
*The a Liberty Counsel has not issued a press release about a DCF filing. They did about the HHS filing.
*Rev Mahoney, a prolific tweeter, has not tweeted about a DCF filing. He did about the HHS filing. **
*A Miracle For Justina Facebook did not post about a DCF filing. They did post about the HHS filing. **
*There has been no press release (that I am aware of) from DCF about a filing.
*HHS has verbally confirmed that HHS has filed a brief.

**Both have posted links to news stories about HHS/DCF filings. I do not believe that is the same as posting "factually" about an issue.


So now you are arguing we should believe statements being posted (or not posted) on facebook, or what somebody has tweeted (or not) as opposed to what has been reported by multiple msm sources?
 
  • #655
Assent, not ascent. Assent means agree. She would agree with the motion filed by Pelletier attorneys. So I am really confused as to what you think is different about the situation from earlier this year?


as·sent
[uh-sent] Show IPA
"verb (used without object)
1.
to agree or concur; subscribe to (often followed by to ): to assent to a statement.
2.
to give in; yield; concede: Assenting to his demands, I did as I was told.
noun
3.
agreement, as to a proposal; concurrence.
4.
acquiescence; compliance."


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assent?s=t
I am aware of the meaning of the word and the correct spelling. It was 2AM when i posted this on a tablet. I am lucky I could type anything without typographical errors.

Your claim that Atty Hathaway agreed to send Justina home long ago implied that nothing had changed in her thinking. Much has changed since March. The most recent quote attributed to her (that I am aware of) does not indicate that her agreement is a slam dunk but rather along the lines of "I have not seen it, but if it is exactly as the parents' attorney is representing it, I will probably agree to it." Not exactly a definite agreement is it?
 
  • #656
So now you are arguing we should believe statements being posted (or not posted) on facebook, or what somebody has tweeted (or not) as opposed to what has been reported by multiple msm sources?
That is not what I said - but you know that.

You know full well that if DCF had filed a motion that was viewed as favorable to the Pelletier's, the family and their official and unofficial spokesmen would have shouted it from the rooftops - as they did with the HHS filing. Since they did not, it is an easy logical conclusion to believe that a sloppy reporter said DCF instead of HHS and then several reporters based their stories on the first reporter's error. Mistakes happen in the media. We all know that.
 
  • #657
I am aware of the meaning of the word and the correct spelling. It was 2AM when i posted this on a tablet. I am lucky I could type anything without typographical errors.

Your claim that Atty Hathaway agreed to send Justina home long ago implied that nothing had changed in her thinking. Much has changed since March. The most recent quote attributed to her (that I am aware of) does not indicate that her agreement is a slam dunk but rather along the lines of "I have not seen it, but if it is exactly as the parents' attorney is representing it, I will probably agree to it." Not exactly a definite agreement is it?

Because she hasn't read the motion, it would be hard for her to make a statement that she would definitely agree to it. It doesn't support your claim that there was any change in her thinking (although I am not even sure what it is you are claiming). Presumably any lawyer would have to read the motion first before claiming they are definitely agreeing with it. My understanding of her statement is that she hasn't read the motion, but she is expecting that once she reads it she would agree to it. I don't see how it can be interpreted any other way.
 
  • #658
That is not what I said - but you know that.

You know full well that if DCF had filed a motion that was viewed as favorable to the Pelletier's, the family and their official and unofficial spokesmen would have shouted it from the rooftops - as they did with the HHS filing. Since they did not, it is an easy logical conclusion to believe that a sloppy reporter said DCF instead of HHS and then several reporters based their stories on the first reporter's error. Mistakes happen in the media. We all know that.

Well, I am going to go with what is reported by msm, which I am pretty sure is the rule of this site is anyway. Not facebook or twitter.
 
  • #659
  • #660
From the Globe article in the previous post:

The state Department of Children and Families has made a dramatic change in the 16-month saga involving Connecticut teenager Justina Pelletier, asking a juvenile court judge to return the girl to her parents’ custody.

The development came after DCF removed its longstanding opposition to Justina’s going home to her parents, saying that Lou and Linda Pelletier, who have been fighting for the girl’s return, have met the conditions asked of them. Now, all parties will be looking to see if the judge agrees.
. . .

DCF filed its request to the judge late Friday for Justina to go back to her parents’ care, and attorneys for the Pelletiers, from West Hartford, Conn., were notified about it on Monday.

....

A family reunification plan that Polanowicz described in a May 5 letter listed four conditions Justina’s parents would have to meet for DCF to support their regaining custody, including that they follow through on Tufts Medical Center’s care plan for Justina and participate in family therapy.

In the state’s new court filing, general counsel Andrew Rome wrote that the parents had met their obligation to present “sufficient evidence of a material change in circumstances.”

A spokesman for Polanowicz said in a statement that DCF had filed papers in court “to support our shared goal of bringing Justina home.”

Based on the judge’s March ruling, the parents would not be able to petition for reconsideration until June 20, at the earliest. But Philip Moran, the Salem attorney representing Justina’s parents, said he planned to file a motion Tuesday requesting that the judge return custody without a hearing. The DCF filing also suggested that a hearing might not be necessary.

Again, I'm not super familiar with how family court/state custody issues work, but I didn't think that DCF typically asked for a child to be returned to the parents. The parents file a request motion, and DCF doesn't oppose it and may assent to it or submit affidavits or briefs in support of that motion. I didn't think DCF had standing to ask on behalf of the parents that she be returned, but that could be a misunderstanding by the reporter, or maybe I'm just wrong.

Then it says they had removed their opposition, so maybe that was the dismissal referenced. Then it says the parents met the conditions, so that would indicate a change in circumstances. And the judge does not have to agree they met all conditions, just that it would be in her best interest to go back.

Then it says DCF filed papers to support her return home - that to me indicates they didn't request she be returned, but instead offered support to the parents' motion. Just a legal distinction, but it's worth noting, because otherwise it seems to not make sense. But then it says the parents weren't able to submit such a motion yet, so it is confusing.

A motion for reconsideration is not rare, imo. You have to really believe that the Judge got it wrong (or have a scorched earth type approach to a case), but I wouldn't say "rare." And they don't depend on the facts changing, necessarily, also imo. In my experience, they're mostly to say, as I mentioned, that the Judge got it wrong -- the facts, the law, or the law as it applies to the facts. That said, I agree with you about the title of the motion. It's not your typical nomenclature. Is the pleading available anywhere?

It's not available, but I think everything is sealed and the parents leak information selectively. I should have said success is rare, but there's very little addressing motions for reconsideration. I thought that the difference between a motion for reconsideration and an appeal was that an appeal deals with the judge getting the law or application of the law wrong, and a motion for reconsideration deals with a factual change, not an error. In this case, the article mentions the parents have met the burden of showing a change in circumstances, so I guess that's the standard they are using to try and modify the decision.

ETA: And if they are truly asking for her to be returned to her parents, CT DCF will not be taking over unless they decide there's something to investigate. They aren't asking her to be transferred to the custody of CT authorities.
 
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