Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas #2

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  • #581
Yea, well, and there were people arguing that we don't know what she said. Well, now we do. She clearly wants to go home and always wanted to go home.
I have no idea why someone would object to her saying what she wants to do. She is 16 and is perfectly able to express her opinion.
It's supposed to be a free country after all.

Actually, we do not know what she said when she testified in December 2013. We only know what she said on the video in June 2014. When she testified in front of the judge, she was out of her family's control and influence. When she made the video, she was under the family's control and influence. It is obvious from her attire and the background that the video was taken on the family's recent outing to the aquarium in Mystic CT.

Justina is 16 years old chronologically. We do not know what her mental and emotional development is. While I agree that the average 16 year old should be able to participate in medical and custody decisions, I am not convinced that Justina has the mental capacity, emotional maturity, and independent thinking abilities of the average 16 year old.

Quite clearly, based on the video, she is not "perfectly able to express her opinion" like an average 16 year old.
 
  • #582
You seem to be confusing somatoform with malingering.
Persons suffering from somatoform are not faking their symptoms.
I am not a psychiatrist or psychologist. I don't believe than any psychiatrist or psychologist certified by this forum has expressed an opinion about Justina's somatoform diagnosis on this forum. (Please correct me if I am incorrect about that.). However, I do know that somatoform, malingering, and fictitious disorders have quite a bit of overlap.

Just as having somatoform does not rule out having a mitochondrial disease, having somatoform does not rule out having some malingering characteristics nor does it rule out acting more impaired at her family's request.
 
  • #583
It cuts both ways imo. The more capable teenagers are of independent thought and expressing their opinions about important decisions the more capable they generally are of doing things for effect. Regardless of their diagnoses or lack thereof.

Although if the psychiatric inpatient treatment was in any way indicated (you know, as opposed to the doctors incarcerating her just to torture her, for unknown motives) the reasons why might have some bearing on her capability to make independent and informed decisions in her own best interests.

I dislike the video being made public but many children in DCF custody say that they want to go home and it doesn't really always mean that everything is just fine at home and that they're being tortured in foster care.
 
  • #584
I am not a psychiatrist or psychologist. I don't believe than any psychiatrist or psychologist certified by this forum has expressed an opinion about Justina's somatoform diagnosis on this forum. (Please correct me if I am incorrect about that.). However, I do know that somatoform, malingering, and fictitious disorders have quite a bit of overlap.

Just as having somatoform does not rule out having a mitochondrial disease, having somatoform does not rule out having some malingering characteristics nor does it rule out acting more impaired at her family's request.

BBM. That's what I've been wondering all this time. Must it be either/or? I would think it entirely possible Justina could have a combination of mito and soma, and the drama surrounding this whole thing (by both sides) has just made a right mess of it all. She could have mito and/or soma and still be malingering.
 
  • #585
  • #586
And yet, she seems to be either in the same condition or better than she was when she was originally admitted. She isn't in the hospital and as far as we know, she hasn't had any new major treatments. She was taken to the ER for a reason and she had been discharged just days before AMA.

.



Cathy how do you know this? I cannot accept anything the family says as fact, she is clearly not dying like Lou has stated. How do you KNOW she wasn't in a wheelchair before the ambulance arrived?

I have had contact/communication with Jennifer Pelletier and I do trust her. We are entitled to our opinions
 
  • #587
Yea, well, and there were people arguing that we don't know what she said. Well, now we do. She clearly wants to go home and always wanted to go home.
I have no idea why someone would object to her saying what she wants to do. She is 16 and is perfectly able to express her opinion.
It's supposed to be a free country after all.


A person with the mentality of a 5 year old ....according to Lou....


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  • #588
I have had contact/communication with Jennifer Pelletier and I do trust her. We are entitled to our opinions


I have yet to see one shred of evidence Justina's legs were ever blue, as Jennifer has claimed.

So my opinion remains her family has some very serious issues, the least of which are attention seeking, manipulating, and outright lying.
That's what I've witnessed repeatedly with my own eyes.
I can't even begin to imagine what goes on behind closed doors when the microphones and cameras aren't present.
All IMO




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  • #589
I have had contact/communication with Jennifer Pelletier and I do trust her. We are entitled to our opinions


I also contacted her to ask where that money they've asked be donated is going and what it's being used for.

She never replied.

Despite the claim an incredibly wealthy benefactor is footing the bill...

Maybe you can manage to get a answer.

Things that make you go hmmmmm



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  • #590
It appears that the grandmother also makes use of a wheelchair at least when they are shown on their outings. Perhaps she gets around at home using a cane?

In any case, I wonder if the Pelletiers will need to modify their home in any way to make it easier for Justina to get around in her wheelchair? Ramps, doorways, rugs, bathrooms? Perhaps some of the charitible donations can pay for those retrofits.
 
  • #591
I totally agree, this child has suffered. If her parents weren't so stubborn her suffering would have been very brief, she would have been home over a year ago....IMO

So the state kept this child locked in a psych ward for a year because her parents were stubborn ?
Was the state being vindictive for being called out or is that all it takes these days to lose your right to parent your own child ?
 
  • #592
Actually, we do not know what she said when she testified in December 2013. We only know what she said on the video in June 2014. When she testified in front of the judge, she was out of her family's control and influence. When she made the video, she was under the family's control and influence. It is obvious from her attire and the background that the video was taken on the family's recent outing to the aquarium in Mystic CT.

Justina is 16 years old chronologically. We do not know what her mental and emotional development is. While I agree that the average 16 year old should be able to participate in medical and custody decisions, I am not convinced that Justina has the mental capacity, emotional maturity, and independent thinking abilities of the average 16 year old.

Quite clearly, based on the video, she is not "perfectly able to express her opinion" like an average 16 year old.

I thought her opinion in the video was quite clear, she wants to go home and there's no reason she shouldn't. Do you think her parents are dangerous ?
 
  • #593
So the state kept this child locked in a psych ward for a year because her parents were stubborn ?
Was the state being vindictive for being called out or is that all it takes these days to lose your right to parent your own child ?

bbm. It's getting to be that way. It's my opinion that it started when a parent was no longer allowed to spank their child, for wrong doing. We are now living with that product. Yes I have seen that written more then once that because of Lou's doing this or Lou doing that is why they are holding her. And no I don't have links but it is here in the threads before this. jmo idk
 
  • #594
I'm having great difficultly understanding the apparent inability of some to hold more that two concepts at once in ones mind.

I'm not sure if it's a deliberate attempt to misconstrue other peoples' posts or there is some sort of disconnect going on.

I'm going to state my beliefs one more time.

IMO it's not either or...she likely has multiple issues some of which are medical and some psychological. Both need to be addressed.

The parents did not have their child removed from their custody because they're annoying.

It's ridiculous to repeatedly state if it were all, or in part psychological, she would be cured by now. That's ludicrous.

She was not healthy and ice skating the day she arrived at Children's.

She's a child in need of complex care that includes a psychological approach in addition to addressing her medical needs. A coordination and oversight of Justina's care is imperative.

The child NEEDS her parents to accept that and be a part of the team that wants nothing more than to see this child as well as she can possibly be by addressing ALL of her needs as laid out by her PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL TEAM.






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  • #595
I thought her opinion in the video was quite clear, she wants to go home and there's no reason she shouldn't. Do you think her parents are dangerous ?

Her statements on the video came through clearly. What is not clear is if she is cognitively and psychologically capable of making this sort of decision. It is also not clear what impact, if any, being with her family when the video was made had on the statements she was making. Were they actually her thoughts or was she following a "script" given to her by the family? Nobody could possibly know the answer to this unless they were actually in attendance.

The public does not know what Justina said during her official testimony in December 2013. The public does not know her capacity to make important decisions. The care and custody of a chronically ill teenager (who may have significant mental impairment) is very different from the care and custody of an average 16 year old girl.

Justina's father has made statements that indicate that she is functioning at the level of a 5 to 7 year old child academically. That indicates that there is likely a deficit in cognitive and decision making ability. Without her psychological, medical, and academic records (which have not been released to the public) it is impossible to make accurate judgements on this case. That is why there is a juvenile court judge tasked with this responsibility.

You asked if I thought the parents are dangerous. In some respects, yes I do. I think their decision making ability has repeatedly been shown to be deficient. I think that her father has shown anger management issues. I think the family's telling of this story has changed over time and at times they have trouble keeping the story straight. To me, that indicates un-truthfulness. I think that her parents' insistence that she has 'Mito' and only 'Mito' shows a dangerous level of single mindedness that could well put Justina at risk in their care. Patients with chronic disease (be it Mito or something else) are not immune to developing other problems and illnesses. A group of highly educated well informed physicians obviously felt that the symptoms she was displaying in February 2013 were out of line with a Mitochondrial Disease diagnosis. The parents decision to publicly pronounce the Tufts physicians to be somehow superior in specialization, training, or intellect is, quite frankly, laughable and shows poor logic and interpretation skills. Yes, I think she could well be in danger in their care.

When Justina is returned to the parents custody, I predict that she will eventually begin experiencing significant medical issues that she has apparently not been experiencing at either JRI or Wayside. We don't know what, if any, medical issues she experienced at BCH because that information would exist in the medical records that have not been released to the public. We know that she has not experienced issues at JRI or Wayside because she has not been rushed by ambulance to any hospital while in their care. (Other then the one ER visit disclosed by her parents. That visit did not result in admission to a hospital.)

All of the above is, of course, just my opinion.
 
  • #596
It appears that the grandmother also makes use of a wheelchair at least when they are shown on their outings.

I noticed that as well and believe that it makes the claim that the family did not own a wheelchair even less believable.

It has been stated in main stream media that Justina was not walking prior to arriving at BCH. It has been stated in msm that Justina had difficulty walking the short distance from her classroom to the cafeteria prior to her admission to BCH. If that is accurate, how was she getting in and out of school, to her classes, etc? School personnel would not have carried her or allowed her friends to carry her. They would have insisted on a wheelchair, walker, or other assistive device. Many medical insurance companies provide a rental wheelchair for some number of months before they agree to the need to pay for the purchase of a wheelchair. If she was using a "rental", I suppose that makes the claims that they did not "own" one accurate - though highly deceptive!
 
  • #597
So the state kept this child locked in a psych ward for a year because her parents were stubborn ?
Was the state being vindictive for being called out or is that all it takes these days to lose your right to parent your own child ?

I thought the state determined the parents were unfit?

Nothing vindictive about protecting children from unfit parents. The nice thing about a locked unit is that it keeps unwanted people OUT.

Protecting children from their unfit parents is a sad but necessary action.

JMO
 
  • #598
So the state kept this child locked in a psych ward for a year because her parents were stubborn ?
Was the state being vindictive for being called out or is that all it takes these days to lose your right to parent your own child ?

Yes, as has been cited here many times, she was kept in the hospital because no facility could be found that was willing to take her, and THAT was because the parents kept threatening to sue any facility that did or stage protests there.

So yes, the parents' stubbornness had the effect of keeping Justina in the hospital for nearly an extra year till a place willing to take her could be found.
 
  • #599
  • #600
Someone should probably do a screen shot of the Justina comment. I imagine the lawyers for the State of Massachusetts, for BCH, for DFS, would like to have anything like that in their collection of documents to do with this case.
 
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