Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas

[jjenny]

It might be a thirteenth or a thirty third opinion at this point if there's anything in the doctor shopping allegations.

As long as the parents have custody a hospital can make recommendations and strongly suggest certain courses of action but if the state takes emergency custody as they did they can pretty much dictate a lot of stuff.

What would you have doctors do if they suspect medical abuse? Say, right, go on your merry way and find some other doctors who will prescribe her more pain killers and do more unnecessary surgery on her?

Parents didn't do unnecessary surgery on her. Her surgeries were done by MDs. And were deemed necessary by the MDs. She had congenital band removed and a port put in because her colon has issues with motility.
Which one of her two surgeries do you think was unnecessary?

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's coordinated now? You think DCF is somehow can spend more effort on a child than her parents? Based on the audit, large number of children taken into MA DCF care can't even get a required medical exam during the required time period.

The plan was never to keep her indefinitely from her parents. The plan included her parents, they simply wanted no part of it.imo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Donjeta]

Parents didn't do unnecessary surgery on her. Her surgeries were done by MDs. And were deemed necessary by the MDs. She had congenital band removed and a port put in because her colon has issues with motility.
Which one of her two surgeries do you think was unnecessary?

I wasn't there so the unnecessary surgeries and the painkillers were just an example of what medical abuse suspicions might contain. I haven't seen her medical records so I'm not in a position to assess the appropriateness of the operations, and I also can't tell if those were the only operations she'd ever had.

Would you have doctors do nothing if they suspect parents may be instrumental in causing iatrogenic harm to their child? It's all fine and dandy if there is a MD somewhere stamping the procedures with a sign of approval?

 

[jjenny]

I wasn't there so the unnecessary surgeries and the painkillers were just an example of what medical abuse suspicions might contain. I haven't seen her medical records so I'm not in a position to assess the appropriateness of the operations, and I also can't tell if those were the only operations she'd ever had.

Would you have doctors do nothing if they suspect parents may be instrumental in causing iatrogenic harm to their child? It's all fine and dandy if there is a MD somewhere stamping the procedures with a sign of approval?

What would you have DCF do if doctors wrongly suspected parents were causing harm to the child? Lock the child up in a psychiatric ward?

 

[Donjeta]

What would you have DCF do if doctors wrongly suspected parents were causing harm to the child? Lock the child up in a psychiatric ward?

Why did the doctors wrongly suspect it? Just out of the blue for no reason at all or was there something concerning in the behavior of the parties that made them think so?

Psychiatric care is frequently indicated even if there is no medical abuse.

At any rate, the suspicions need to be investigated.

IMO it's a little unfair to put the whole blame of Justina being in the psychiatric ward on DCF when it's been reported that DCF were trying to get the child out of the psychiatric ward for quite some time but the parents blocked the attempts for months.

 

[jjenny]

Why did the doctors wrongly suspect it? Just out of the blue for no reason at all or was there something concerning in the behavior of the parties that made them think so?

Psychiatric care is frequently indicated even if there is no medical abuse.

IMO it's a little unfair to put the whole blame of Justina being in the psychiatric ward on DCF when it's been reported that DCF were trying to get the child out of the psychiatric ward for quite some time but the parents blocked the attempts for months.

How did parents block the attempts from getting the child out of psychiatric ward?
By trying to get DCF to release the child back to the parents?
DCF removed the child from parents, and I find it hysterical that the judge is blaming the parents for the child being stuck in the psychiatric ward, when the parents didn't ask for her to be there to begin with.

 

[Donjeta]

How did parents block the attempts from getting the child out of psychiatric ward?
By trying to get DCF to release the child back to the parents?
DCF removed the child from parents, and I find it hysterical that the judge is blaming the parents for the child being stuck in the psychiatric ward, when the parents didn't ask for her to be there to begin with.

http://c.o0bg.com/rw/Boston/2011-2020/2014/03/25/BostonGlobe.com/HealthScience/Graphics/SCAN.pdf

JMO. As far as Justina was concerned, at that point it didn't much matter whose idea it was that she was in the psychiatric locked ward. She was there anyway so what mattered was that the family didn't comply with any plans that would have enabled her to get out of there, so she had to stay for far longer than necessary.

JMO but if the state takes custody of your child and puts her in a psychiatric ward, and you think it's not a good place for her and you want her out of there - it's not in the child's best interests to block the DCF plans to move her to a residential facility nearer her home. You can continue to work towards your Plan A (getting the emergency custody decision reversed and getting full custody back ASAP) at the same time but in case it fails your child probably doesn't want the plan B to fail as well. Plan B is where you work with the DCF and agree to be evaluated and have frequent visits at a residential facility near your home where they will see that you're a good parent and essential to your child's healthy development, after which they will say a good word for you for the judge who will then consider your arguments more favorably and you'll eventually get the custody back.

She could have been home by now.

 

[CHICANA]

Personally I've no objection if some of my tax money gets spent on a child protection agency (if they're well-functioning and generally effective) as some children do need protection from parents who raise their children in a way that will harm them, god-given rights notwithstanding.
We have tons of cases here on WS where I blame the DCF much more for not intervening than for costing the taxpayers.

What happens when a child is taken from a good home and ends up with abusive foster parents or family members ?

 

[Morag]

What happens when a child is taken from a good home and ends up with abusive foster parents or family members ?

What happens when a child is returned to a home in which he/she is being abused?

 

[Donjeta]

What happens when a child is taken from a good home and ends up with abusive foster parents or family members ?

Well, of course it isn't good... Trying their very best to prevent that that sort of thing doesn't happen sort of falls under "well functioning and generally effective" in my mind. But I suppose children who got taken from neglectful and abusive homes for good reasons could end up with abusive foster parents just as easily as the kids from good homes.

Is Justina with abusive foster parents?

 

[jjenny]

Well, of course it isn't good... Trying their very best to prevent that that sort of thing doesn't happen sort of falls under "well functioning and generally effective" in my mind. But I suppose children who got taken from neglectful and abusive homes for good reasons could end up with abusive foster parents just as easily as the kids from good homes.

Is Justina with abusive foster parents?

She is in psychiatric residential facility.

 

[jjenny]

http://c.o0bg.com/rw/Boston/2011-2020/2014/03/25/BostonGlobe.com/HealthScience/Graphics/SCAN.pdf

JMO. As far as Justina was concerned, at that point it didn't much matter whose idea it was that she was in the psychiatric locked ward. She was there anyway so what mattered was that the family didn't comply with any plans that would have enabled her to get out of there, so she had to stay for far longer than necessary.

JMO but if the state takes custody of your child and puts her in a psychiatric ward, and you think it's not a good place for her and you want her out of there - it's not in the child's best interests to block the DCF plans to move her to a residential facility nearer her home. You can continue to work towards your Plan A (getting the emergency custody decision reversed and getting full custody back ASAP) at the same time but in case it fails your child probably doesn't want the plan B to fail as well. Plan B is where you work with the DCF and agree to be evaluated and have frequent visits at a residential facility near your home where they will see that you're a good parent and essential to your child's healthy development, after which they will say a good word for you for the judge who will then consider your arguments more favorably and you'll eventually get the custody back.

She could have been home by now.

I still have no idea why you blame the parents, but not DCF or Children's, since as far as I am concerned, this child should have never been removed from the parents to begin with.
Per law, parents get to decide which treatment to follow in a case of medical disagreement.
Parents removing her from Children's to return her to Tufts does not constitute medical abuse.
They should have had a choice.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What happens when a child is taken from a good home and ends up with abusive foster parents or family members ?

In this case the system has made her worse. That is abuse as far as I am concerned.

This whole situation stinks. We have kids every day that are killed by horrendous people.. And then you have this..

Arg.

 

[jjenny]

In this case the system has made her worse. That is abuse as far as I am concerned.

This whole situation stinks. We have kids every day that are killed by horrendous people.. And then you have this..

Arg.

Exactly. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
And after she was removed from her parents, was she added to any protocols as a human subject considering that as a award of the state, parental permission is not needed to do experimental treatments on her?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Exactly. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

And after she was removed from her parents, was she added to any protocols as a human subject considering that as a award of the state, parental permission is not needed to do experimental treatments on her?

That's quite the leap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lawstudent]

Exactly. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
And after she was removed from her parents, was she added to any protocols as a human subject considering that as a award of the state, parental permission is not needed to do experimental treatments on her?

Moving the debate to the appropriate thread:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyl...ssachusetts/puyPhesGkKE6rGLid2VM2L/story.html

The Globe's article acknowledges they were accused of abuse and that's what caused the removal, based on the court ruling.

Again, not saying they are right, but that was the justification. And I don't know if you are local or how prominent Tufts is where you live, but Tufts is huge. Having her treated by Tufts doesn't mean that she goes back to the exact same guy or that it's an admission they were wrong. I do wonder if it's possible this was a combination of psychological and mitochondrial issues - the whole point is that it is so hard to distinguish them. Maybe they're trying to address the issue again and take a dual approach.

 

[jjenny]

Moving the debate to the appropriate thread:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyl...ssachusetts/puyPhesGkKE6rGLid2VM2L/story.html

The Globe's article acknowledges they were accused of abuse and that's what caused the removal, based on the court ruling.

Again, not saying they are right, but that was the justification. And I don't know if you are local or how prominent Tufts is where you live, but Tufts is huge. Having her treated by Tufts doesn't mean that she goes back to the exact same guy or that it's an admission they were wrong. I do wonder if it's possible this was a combination of psychological and mitochondrial issues - the whole point is that it is so hard to distinguish them. Maybe they're trying to address the issue again and take a dual approach.

She did go back to the same guy, Dr. Korson.
Parents were accused of "medical abuse" because they wouldn't agree to follow Children's protocol that required her being treated for somatoform. Parents don't believe she has somatoform.
There is no test for somatoform.
So there is no proof she actually has somatoform, despite what the judge claimed in his ruling.
Furthermore, law allows parents to decide which treatment to follow, in case of medical disagreement.
Which means it does not appear the law was followed in this case.

 

[Donjeta]

I still have no idea why you blame the parents, but not DCF or Children's, since as far as I am concerned, this child should have never been removed from the parents to begin with.
Per law, parents get to decide which treatment to follow in a case of medical disagreement.
Parents removing her from Children's to return her to Tufts does not constitute medical abuse.
They should have had a choice.

We don't know that's all the reason there was. It's the parents' version and they might be presenting a sanitized version from their own point of view that leaves something significant out.

 

[lawstudent]

She did go back to the same guy, Dr. Korson.
Parents were accused of "medical abuse" because they wouldn't agree to follow Children's protocol that required her being treated for somatoform. Parents don't believe she has somatoform.
There is no test for somatoform.
So there is no proof she actually has somatoform, despite what the judge claimed in his ruling.
Furthermore, law allows parents to decide which treatment to follow, in case of medical disagreement.
Which means it does not appear the law was followed in this case.

Could you please link me to where it says she went back to Dr. Korson?

I know there is no test. It's not a provable condition, like mitochondrial disease. Both are essentially syndromes that require subjective judgment based on a combination of symptoms. That's why these problems happen. There's no proof of almost any mental illness.

Law does allow the parents to choose the course of treatment. This was not why she was removed. We actually don't know 100% why. The original report was for abuse. Recent rulings make it sound more like neglect or instability.

 

[CathyinTexas]

This is a letter which may enlighten to what has really occurred in this case. Most of the news articles I have read leave out facts and seem biased toward the hospital and/or state. This person has knowledge but has no reason to have bias in this case.

http://tribwtic.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/higgins-letter-pdf.pdf

excerpt:

>I am submitting this information, which has been
made public, in the form of a complaint against Judge Joseph Johnston, Dr. Colleen Ryan
and the Massachusetts Department of Children and Families for the emotional and
medical abuse Justina Pelletier has suffered for nearly a year. It would be far more
accurate to call the “treatment” forced on Justina by its more proper term, “torture”.<