Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

[Cherry]

And I know exactly what it's like to stand there in hospital and be told your loved one is brain dead. When you are brain dead THERE IS NO RECOVERY. EVER.
It may take a week or so but hopefully and lovingly they will make the right decision and release her from the state she is in. She has no possible future at all; and is in a vegetative state. It's very hard for some to accept. "she" isn't there any more. Her brain has died and usually if left on respirator then pneumonia will set in like it did in our case when said SO refused to unplugged after diagnosis of brain dead. It is a very difficult decision but hopefully they will make the right one. Keeping her in a "locked in" state is useless. To everyone involved, not to mention the extremely high medical bills this state would cause. They need to let her go; with love.
JMO from personal exp.
:grouphug:

 

[al66pine]

Puzzling ---the tonsillectomy was supposed to treat all these med problems? But the source was patient's uncle, not health care employee.

Doctors had recommended the tonsillectomy to treat Jahi's sleep apnea, weight gain, inability to concentrate, short attention span and uncontrolled urination, her uncle Omari Sealey told CNN on Monday in a telephone interview.
(same article as in OP) [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/health/california-girl-brain-dead/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/health/california-girl-brain-dead/index.html[/URL]


Perhaps she had these various med problems?
And the surgery was rec'ed to treat _____?

In Ye Olden Days of my childhood (1950s-60's), tonsillectomies were routinely performed
(~ages 4-8?) as a 'preventative measure.' Against what? IDK.

 

[noZme]

Ironically, my husband had some surgery last summer, and in the recovery room, his sleep apnea surfaced again, and he stopped breathing. The nurse recommended going to a doctor. DH has always had a bad snoring problem. I'd been pushing him lately to look into it, but in light of Jahi's problems, I think I'll just continue to put up with his snoring!!!

Snoring/sleep apnea is serious & it is dangerous to "let it go". A new treatment is a retainer type guard, custom made by your dentist. It is much more user friendly than CPAP devices. I have one & love it if anyone has questions.

 

[michmi]

She shouldn't have died from a surgery that's considered routine. I think the hospital may have a malpractice suit on their hands. I side with this family, she's only 13, and appeared to be a bright girl who was talked into the surgery by her mother, who reassured her nothing bad would happen.

First of all, EVERY surgery, routine or not, has the risk of death. Every one. Even having a toenail removed. She was an older child, also, which carries a bigger risk.

Second, the family (and possibly you) are hoping this child will wake up and be okay. Not going to happen. The family sounds very uninformed or they're in denial. As has been said, the child is brain dead. She is gone. They are keeping a body alive only.

I think the family also was extremely uninformed regarding tonsillectomy for all those ailments. The very FIRST thing the mother should have done was have the child at an ideal weight. The sleep apnea likely would have gone away or been much reduced.

 

[michmi]

Ironically, my husband had some surgery last summer, and in the recovery room, his sleep apnea surfaced again, and he stopped breathing. The nurse recommended going to a doctor. DH has always had a bad snoring problem. I'd been pushing him lately to look into it, but in light of Jahi's problems, I think I'll just continue to put up with his snoring!!!

Have him looked at. Sleep apnea is a HUGE precursor for dementia in later years (because of the chronic low oxygen saturation).

 

[Zuri]

I thought about this case again this morning. I don't know the setup of this particular hospital, but I am familiar with JCAHO regulations, Recovery Rooms and ICUs in general. More than likely this was supposed to be a short procedure and Jahi was probably going to be discharged that same day. IIRC, Jahi awoke from surgery and was alert and oriented. Typically, a patient is put on a humidified face tent (oxygen). In the picture of Jahi, (appears pre-op), one can note the size of her neck. This is always of importance to anesthesiologists and recovery room staff, as particular attention needs to be paid to ensure an open airway. A pulse ox is always placed on a post op patient to monitor oxygen levels. At some point during her recovery, the bleeding began and lack of oxygen ensued probably due to an occluded airway. As a side note, in typical pre-op blood work, bleeding factors are not screened for.

I am guessing she was reintubated and taken to the ICU. All patients are monitored in the ICU and a nurse is typically never assigned more than 2 patients. An unstable patient with active bleeding is a priority and usually has more than one nurse and doctors in immediate attendance. At some point, it was determined by EEG, CT scan, physical exam etc. that brain activity had ceased. Brain stem function seemed to be intact, but no info was given about the requirement of additional meds that maybe is being used to sustain other organ systems. From what I understood the article to say, doctors are encouraging the parents to remove life support and allow her to die with dignity. Once the breathing tube is removed, heart function may continue for minutes, days or hours and she can be kept comfortable with Morphine as respiratory distress ensues. Once breathing ceases, cardiac function ceases shortly thereafter.

In my 30 year nursing career, I have seen plenty of mistakes. It was very hard not to be completely honest with family members when they asked questions that I knew would directly implicate the doctor or hospital. Horrible. We had to refer these questions to our manager and let her handle them. I understand the family's frustration with not being told much directly by the nurses. It had to come from managers and physicians.

No one is ever truly prepared to lose a loved one suddenly or otherwise. I had to take my own father off a vent for brain death with zero chance of recovery. 30 years of nursing had not prepared me for that moment. He was my father and I was his daughter. The sight of him in the ICU brought me to my knees and I couldn't breathe. I had to see the CT scan for myself and there was no escaping the horrific pain and loss that was to come. My father was already gone. All that remained was his physical presence. All that was my dad was really gone.

I feel for Jahi's family. It is so difficult to let go. I hope that they can take solace that she is with God and let her physical presence go with the dignity she deserves. JMV

 

[rob]

My 21 yr old son and I sit and watched a program on tv about Terry Shivo's situation. During that program, he told me, they should let her go, don't ever let me be like that. I told him that his father and I felt the same way. Little did I know that 6 months later, I would be in that situation, looking at his 4 dr's telling us, he was too long with out oxygen, his brain cannot recover.
But just knowing how he felt, made the decision easier, and I never second guessed it.
I'm telling this story to tell you, with family members that are old enough, have the conversation. This 13 yr old girl, in my opinion, would not have been old enough, and the discussion about it would have probably made her more fearful.
We never know what tomorrow will bring.

 

[Zuri]

Puzzling ---the tonsillectomy was supposed to treat all these med problems? But the source was patient's uncle, not health care employee.

Doctors had recommended the tonsillectomy to treat Jahi's sleep apnea, weight gain, inability to concentrate, short attention span and uncontrolled urination, her uncle Omari Sealey told CNN on Monday in a telephone interview.
(same article as in OP) [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/health/california-girl-brain-dead/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/health/california-girl-brain-dead/index.html[/URL]


Perhaps she had these various med problems?
And the surgery was rec'ed to treat _____?

In Ye Olden Days of my childhood (1950s-60's), tonsillectomies were routinely performed
(~ages 4-8?) as a 'preventative measure.' Against what? IDK.

Surgery was to assist in treating the sleep apnea. The other symptoms not so much. Maybe if she was not so tired, she could be more active and lose weight might help the other symptoms.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Puzzling ---the tonsillectomy was supposed to treat all these med problems? But the source was patient's uncle, not health care employee.

Doctors had recommended the tonsillectomy to treat Jahi's sleep apnea, weight gain, inability to concentrate, short attention span and uncontrolled urination, her uncle Omari Sealey told CNN on Monday in a telephone interview.
(same article as in OP) [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/health/california-girl-brain-dead/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/health/california-girl-brain-dead/index.html[/URL]


Perhaps she had these various med problems?
And the surgery was rec'ed to treat _____?

In Ye Olden Days of my childhood (1950s-60's), tonsillectomies were routinely performed
(~ages 4-8?) as a 'preventative measure.' Against what? IDK.

I believe it was strep


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Zuri]

My 21 yr old son and I sit and watched a program on tv about Terry Shivo's situation. During that program, he told me, they should let her go, don't ever let me be like that. I told him that his father and I felt the same way. Little did I know that 6 months later, I would be in that situation, looking at his 4 dr's telling us, he was too long with out oxygen, his brain cannot recover.
But just knowing how he felt, made the decision easier, and I never second guessed it.
I'm telling this story to tell you, with family members that are old enough, have the conversation. This 13 yr old girl, in my opinion, would not have been old enough, and the discussion about it would have probably made her more fearful.
We never know what tomorrow will bring.

OMG I am so so sorry for your loss. I admire the strength it took to make that decision. No doubt the right one, but oh so difficult. Bless you and yours.

 

[CherylE]

My son who is not overweight had apnea from huge enlarged tonsils and repeated strep infections. He had his tonsils out a couple years ago and the apnea stopped and no more strep since. However - he started bleeding badly at home a few hours after we got him home. Called 911 and we are blocks from where e ambulances come from they were there right away and were able together hi. Back to the hospital in time to save him, but buckets of blood just pouring out of his mouth it was terrifying and I was so upset he had been discharged so soon...done as day surgery. Tonsillectomies are way more dangerous than people think! I can easily see how someone could die - I honesty in the moment thought my son was about to be dead and in another couple minutes delay in response time he probably would have been.

 

[SophieRose]

I thought about this case again this morning. I don't know the setup of this particular hospital, but I am familiar with JCAHO regulations, Recovery Rooms and ICUs in general. More than likely this was supposed to be a short procedure and Jahi was probably going to be discharged that same day.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaki...h-www.insidebayarea.com-www.insidebayarea.com

Jahi arrived at the hospital Monday and was supposed to be released Tuesday, the family said.

Monday night, Chatman, a veteran nurse at Kaiser Permanente in Oakland, noticed her granddaughter was bleeding from her mouth and nose. She later went into cardiac arrest.

Jahi spent Tuesday on a ventilator. By 2 a.m. Wednesday, doctors said she had swelling in her brain, and Thursday, she was declared legally brain-dead, family members said.

 

[SophieRose]

Family to meet with hospital officials at 5:00 pm PST

 

[SophieRose]

Oakland: Family of girl on ventilator furious after meeting with hospital officials

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24761285/oakland-family-brain-dead-13-year-old-girl

The family fighting to keep a brain-dead 13-year-old girl on medical support through Christmas blasted administrators at Children's Hospital Oakland on Thursday evening, saying that hospital officials told them in a private meeting that the girl had to be taken off her ventilator "quickly."

"They said, 'What don't you understand?' She is dead, dead, dead,'" said Omari Sealey, the uncle of Jahi McMath, the Oakland teen who has been kept alive by machines since complications from a tonsil surgery last week. "They just kept referring to her as 'a body.'"

 

[Fairy1]

My niece is having her tonsils removed tomorrow. I wasn't worried about it at all until I read this story.

 

[Zuri]

http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaki...h-www.insidebayarea.com-www.insidebayarea.com

Interesting that they wanted to keep her overnight. I wonder if the surgeon wanted to make sure there were no breathing problems. Thanks too for posting all the articles. This is just so sad.

 

[Minette]

I just really cannot believe that a hospital in the middle of such a media storm would be so very insensitive in speaking with the parents.

And although I am sure her parents aren't in any kind of place to hear this, if they *did* choose to take her off life support she could possibly help other people have a chance at life, giving her own death some meaning.

 

[Zuri]

I just really cannot believe that a hospital in the middle of such a media storm would be so very insensitive in speaking with the parents.

And although I am sure her parents aren't in any kind of place to hear this, if they *did* choose to take her off life support she could possibly help other people have a chance at life, giving her own death some meaning.

I was thinking the same thing. I would imagine she is on cardiac drips, dopamine to stimulate the kidneys, and drugs to reduce brain swelling, EEG monitoring, along with ventilating her. What a nightmare for this family. It is hard enough to know your daughter has been declared brain dead and on the other hand accept it. I really hope the admins are not as harsh as they seem. You know the hospital attorney is in those meetings. The family wants their daughter for Christmas. I really hope they can have their wish. Sometimes reality sucks. JMO

 

[concernedmother]

Feel bad for this family. What a shocking turn of events for them and they need time to process all this. Id say a few more days isnt going to hurt. Let them have her for Christmas and talk to them again after that.

 

[Donjeta]

Family members also said that they had asked the hospital for permission to bring their own doctors in to examine the girl; administrators denied that request, saying again that the girl was dead, and there would be no reason to do so.

"They keep saying she is 'dead, dead, dead' and I am hoping the courts will say 'no, no, no,'" Dolan said in a Thursday night news conference. "We just saw her; she is a beautiful young lady. She responds to her mother's touch. She is warm."

From the link above.

I don't see why the hospital couldn't allow the family to get a second opinion. It might help the family to let her go if the other doctors agree that it's a hopeless situation.

I wonder what they mean by her responding to her mother's touch.