Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

[SophieRose]

The family is Baptist.

 

[Kaliste]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/new...spital-oakland-agrees-release-jahi-conditions

This sounds a little passive-aggressive imo... They don't seem to believe that the family has made any arrangements.

I think the family is in the "anger" phase of grief right now. Focusing their pain towards the hospital is probably an (IMO) unhealthy distraction. As long as they are fighting something, however futile, they aren't having to deal with the fact their child is dead.

The hospital is probably rightfully fed up. They haven't been able to speak openly and I have no doubt that with all of the public attention they've gone above and beyond to provide for the family (i.e. A private visiting room). I imagine they've had many meetings which takes time away from other LIVING patients. Staff that have nothing to do with this child have had to deal with public marches and media at their workplace.

I think the only way anything will be resolved is if a judge denies the appeal to keep Jahi "plugged in" or her family has some kind of epiphany.

 

[shana]

Nursing Home Backs Out, Won’t Accept Brain Dead Teen Jahi McMath

A nursing home that was to accept brain dead teen Jahi McMath and continue life support measures has now backed out, saying it was not clear if and when Children’s Hospital Oakland would perform the necessary tracheotomy and gastric tube procedures to transfer her.

 

[Kaliste]

I know medical details have been covered so well here (thank you everyone for that) but some things still seem to be flying over my head here. Can anyone really dumb this down for me? I have zero medical experience or knowledge:

Is this correct?

A ventilator is keeping oxygen flowing which is keeping the heart pumping which is keeping the organs working?

How long can a body go on like that before the heart just stops? Weeks? Years?

 

[shana]

Teen's mom: Jahi is dead only if her heart stops

Video of the mother and uncle on today's The Lead with Jake Tapper.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Teen's mom: Jahi is dead only if her heart stops

Video of the mother and uncle on today's The Lead with Jake Tapper.

"her heart is still beating, so there's still life there."


OMFG is this woman REALLY that thick? :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[LinasK]

I don't understand why Children's is fighting the move, other than they don't want to place the G-Tube and Trach. She'd be out of their hands-problem solved. If the family has hope that she will recover longer term- noone should take that away from them. Especially, when there is a place for her to go and funding.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I know medical details have been covered so well here (thank you everyone for that) but some things still seem to be flying over my head here. Can anyone really dumb this down for me? I have zero medical experience or knowledge:

Is this correct?

A ventilator is keeping oxygen flowing which is keeping the heart pumping which is keeping the organs working?

How long can a body go on like that before the heart just stops? Weeks? Years?

If the body was just on the ventilator and nothing else probably not very long. If they performed other procedures and gave medications to sustain the heart and other organs and try to keep the body in balance, then there really is no way to determine how long.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I don't understand why Children's is fighting the move, other than they don't want to place the G-Tube and Trach. She'd be out of their hands-problem solved. If the family has hope that she will recover longer term- noone should take that away from them. Especially, when there is a place for her to go and funding.

I think they are trying to emphasize they would be moving a body, not a living patient; hence their insistence of the family coordinating transport with the medical examiner. For the hospital, the state of California, and pretty much everyone, Jahi is dead. They need for he family to acknowledge that before releasing the body I guess?

 

[Minette]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/new...spital-oakland-agrees-release-jahi-conditions

This sounds a little passive-aggressive imo... They don't seem to believe that the family has made any arrangements.

BBM: and I think they're right about that.

I think the hospital has been pushed into taking this step due to being gagged by HIPPA laws while the family runs around stating that the hospital is trying to kill Jahi 'again' and that she is trying to breathe on her own and is moving her limbs. It puts the ball back into the court of the family and the judicial system, where it belongs, IMO. The family, to make arrangements for the care of Jahi's body including transportation and approval of the coroner's office, and the judicial system, to s*** or get off the pot with regards to whether the hospital can be legally compelled to provide care for a brain dead body.

Plus, the hospital knows there is going to be a long, ugly court fight anyway (although at least things when things get to the courts the hospital will be able to present its side) and if there IS a facility willing to take Jahi and the family can make it happen legally, logistically, and financially then the other patients and families at Children's will no longer have to deal with the circus and the caregivers can get back to giving their time to the living. I don't really see a downside for the hospital in making this move at this point. (IMO, etc.)

I don't mean to sound cold about Jahi, but really, I am appalled at what is going on.

 

[Sonya610]

The problem with waiting for the heart to stop following brain death is that it can go on beating for several days, occasionally for weeks, during which time other organs fail and the extremities may begin to decompose. To continue artificial ventilation is therefore regarded as both futile and undignified.

That is just awful!

 

[Donjeta]

Ok...beg my ignorance in my thinking for a second. Is no one really explaining the situation to the family? Are they just not listening? Do they have pastoral counseling with the family?( not saying anything as I don't know the religious matter of the family...but, I know most pastors would say 'she's gone...let's plan a proper funeral")

sbm

They have prayed and protested with a number of faith leaders and it doesn't appear to be what they're saying.

"Is not Jahi worthy of the highest amount of medical treatment?" asked Brian K. Woodson Sr., pastor of Bay Area Christian Connection. "We say to this hospital, when you have done wrong as a hospital, you need to pause. This is not about profit margins, this is about people."

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...eaders-call-prosecutors-investigate-jahi-case

Mayberry said he was concerned about the lack of sympathy given to the family.

“Anytime a hospital administrator, whether he or she is a doctor or any physician in the hospital, says: ‘she’s dead, she’s dead, she’s dead and we want the courts to say ‘no, no, no’ – (that) represents a lack of sensitivity,” Mayberry said.

“At very best, perhaps the hospital should discipline that official, at very least, that official needs sensitivity training,” he added.

“…when you are wrong, you’re wrong,” Agee said. “You don’t need a judge to tell you you’re wrong. You need to do the right thing.”

http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2013/12/26/jahi-mcmath-declared-brain-dead-family-still-fighting/

Derrick Mann, Jahi's godfather and pastor at Yeshua Ministries of Hayward, led a prayer at the end of the march, calling upon God to go into the hospital and breathe life into Jahi.
...
On Sunday, faith leaders called on Alameda County District Attorney Nancy O'Malley to open an investigation into the case and called on the hospital to punish certain administrators whom the family said have been insensitive to their grieving. Chief on their list was Durand, whom they demanded should be disciplined or required to attend sensitivity training. The family has accused him of being insensitive in private meetings. Durand did not address those accusations on Monday.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/new...land-court-appoint-independent-expert-examine

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I don't understand why Children's is fighting the move, other than they don't want to place the G-Tube and Trach. She'd be out of their hands-problem solved. If the family has hope that she will recover longer term- noone should take that away from them. Especially, when there is a place for her to go and funding.

She has been declared dead. There are legal issues. There is no way of knowing if the facilities they are speaking of know the full extent of Jahi's condition or if these facilities exist. Does the insurance that is supposedly paying for the care know the extent and has it been approved by the carrier. Such care usually requires a review by medical professionals at insurance companies.

The hospital just told them that they could move her at anytime as long as they show they are legally allowed to transport a deceased body to anywhere other than the morgue (coroners consent), there is a facility that will take her body and a company that will transport her body to another location besides the morgue.

 

[Minette]

“Anytime a hospital administrator, whether he or she is a doctor or any physician in the hospital, says: ‘she’s dead, she’s dead, she’s dead and we want the courts to say ‘no, no, no’ – (that) represents a lack of sensitivity,” Mayberry said.

But did the hospital actually say that? In those words? If so, they should profoundly apologize to Jahi's family for being insensitive. But insensitivity is not against the law. If there was malpractice on the hospital's part, that is one thing. But if this was an instance in which things just went tragically wrong without any medical malfeasance (and that can and does happen even with 'routine' surgeries) then even if a hospital employee did say exactly that in exactly those words it still doesn't rise to the level of a legal or moral argument for compelling the hospital to continue forcibly ventilating a corpse.

(That poor child, in *my* belief she is no longer there, just her mortal shell.)

 

[seattlechiquita]

BBM: and I think they're right about that.

I think the hospital has been pushed into taking this step due to being gagged by HIPPA laws while the family runs around stating that the hospital is trying to kill Jahi 'again' and that she is trying to breathe on her own and is moving her limbs. It puts the ball back into the court of the family and the judicial system, where it belongs, IMO. The family, to make arrangements for the care of Jahi's body including transportation and approval of the coroner's office, and the judicial system, to s*** or get off the pot with regards to whether the hospital can be legally compelled to provide care for a brain dead body.

Plus, the hospital knows there is going to be a long, ugly court fight anyway (although at least things when things get to the courts the hospital will be able to present its side) and if there IS a facility willing to take Jahi and the family can make it happen legally, logistically, and financially then the other patients and families at Children's will no longer have to deal with the circus and the caregivers can get back to giving their time to the living. I don't really see a downside for the hospital in making this move at this point. (IMO, etc.)

I don't mean to sound cold about Jahi, but really, I am appalled at what is going on.

Friend, you are not sounding cold. I am usually pretty chill, but this has me pissed off like nobody's business. Raging mad.

 

[Kaliste]

If the body was just on the ventilator and nothing else probably not very long. If they performed other procedures and gave medications to sustain the heart and other organs and try to keep the body in balance, then there really is no way to determine how long.

Thank you BeginnersLuck

 

[Trino]

Will someone please tell me the name of the insurance company that is going to cover a deceased person? I want to sign up.

I'm thinking perhaps when the insurance company was contacted by the family, they were asked if they would cover care for a person needing extended care, and they agreed. If this is a large insurance company, they may not have known the entire story. Again, what insurance does this family have?

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/new...spital-oakland-agrees-release-jahi-conditions

This sounds a little passive-aggressive imo... They don't seem to believe that the family has made any arrangements.

I agree with them.

 

[SophieRose]

Attorney plans to file restraining order in federal court on Monday to stop disconnection. I would like to see the heated exchange between the attorney and hospital spokesperson.

https://twitter.com/KTVU

 

[Elley Mae]

It's my opine that the lawyer is running his mouth. Who is he to say that she is not dead. It's lawyer talk, that all. jmo idk