Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #901
Have you had any sort of non emergency surgery? I have. The risks ARE glossed over.
<snipped for focus>

I know that each of our experiences in a hospital or doctors office could be different. I have actually had a child put under anesthesia and surgery performed, not too long ago I might add.

The risks were not glossed over in my case. In fact, visits before the surgery they are gone over again, and again, and again.

The fact that it has been stated in the media that Jahi had said "she was scared she wouldn't wake up" might be because the family was informed with complications associated with anesthesia and surgery.

All speculative (and personal experience), plus . . . JMHO.
 
  • #902
It has been reported that the G Mother is a nurse, I sure would hope that she would have and does know the risk that was associated with this or any surgery, if not she needs to turn her license as a nurse in. jmo
 
  • #903
This child and this family would best be served by letting this child go, do they really wanna witness what is ahead if they continue to keep this child hooked up to a machine.....As for surgery and its risk, since a family member is a nurse I'm sure they knew......The family is not be
ing truthful when they say , she was fine before the surgery....
 
  • #904
I believe the hospital has done a really poor job caring for this child pre-surgery & post, a poor job detailing the risks, and a worse job helping her parents come to grips with her death.

IMO this surgery never should have been scheduled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

There are so many things I would have to see to make a determination on what the hospital did or didn't do. I have no reason to accuse the hospital of any wrong doing, because there has been nothing other than the families version provided. There have been different accounts of what happened in those minutes printed in the media.

In times of crisis, seconds can seem like minutes. Perception can be clouded by shock, anger and grief.

Considering the surgery that was performed, I have to wonder if her sleep apnea was affecting her heart and there was concern of her passing in her sleep as her condition worsened.

Every surgery has risks and patients are informed of those risks prior to the surgery. One of those risks is that you can die during or after "any" surgery. Doctors can only do what medicine allows. They cannot perform "miracles". It is stated in the legal documents that the family has been provided counseling and pastoral care by the hospital during this entire time.

We simply do not know what steps were taken before, during and after the surgery and we don't know how what steps the patient and family took before and after the surgery, or how they reacted to the situation.

There is no evidence at this point that anyone did anything wrong.
 
  • #905
It has been reported that the G Mother is a nurse, I sure would hope that she would have and does know the risk that was associated with this or any surgery, if not she needs to turn her license as a nurse in. jmo


Note: This headline is outrageous!

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/24/...ling-jahi-mcmath-taking-her-off-life-support/

I think the grandmother is standing with the family.

"Jahi&#8217;s grandmother is a nurse, and one of the first people who noticed that something was wrong after Jahi&#8217;s tonsillectomy earlier this month. She and Jahi&#8217;s family believe that Jahi deserves to be examined and assessed by a physician who was not part of the team that erred in the first place, causing Jahi&#8217;s complications to begin with.

Jahi&#8217;s grandmother said,"It&#8217;s wrong for someone who made mistakes on your child to just call the coroner &#8230; and not respect the family&#8217;s feeling or rights,&#8221; Sandra Chatman, Jahi&#8217;s grandmother and a registered nurse, said in the hallway outside the courtroom. I know Jahi suffered, and it tears me up."
 
  • #906
Note: This headline is outrageous!

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/24/...ling-jahi-mcmath-taking-her-off-life-support/

I think the grandmother is standing with the family.

"Jahi’s grandmother is a nurse, and one of the first people who noticed that something was wrong after Jahi’s tonsillectomy earlier this month. She and Jahi’s family believe that Jahi deserves to be examined and assessed by a physician who was not part of the team that erred in the first place, causing Jahi’s complications to begin with.

Jahi’s grandmother said,"It’s wrong for someone who made mistakes on your child to just call the coroner … and not respect the family’s feeling or rights,” Sandra Chatman, Jahi’s grandmother and a registered nurse, said in the hallway outside the courtroom. I know Jahi suffered, and it tears me up."

I agree, it's outrageous! !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
  • #907
Even assuming that hospital did something wrong either during or after surgery, that's not going to change the fact that she is now brain dead.
Six specialists have examined her. Everybody agreed she is brain dead.
If family expects a miracle, why do they need her attached to a ventillator?
Turn her off and wait for the miracle.
So they seem to understand her body can't continue without the ventillator.
 
  • #908
Yes, the grandmother appears to be firmly standing by the family.

Even though it has been stated that she is a nurse, there is no telling what kind of patients that she has worked with in her career. I would certainly think that she would know that Jahi's brain is decomposing, among other things, but for whatever reasons (religious, respecting her daughters wishes, etc.) she is standing with the families decision.

I agree with the hospital on their ethical standpoint, the laws and their statement that allowing this to continue is just furthering the families grief. The medical experts know the outcome and the picture of what lies ahead the longer this continues. The hospital, IMO, has tried to be honest with the family on what they are facing if this continues on. I don't in anyway think that their honesty is self centered. I think the family deserves to know the truth, even if it may appear harsh. Sugar coating the reality of the situation, would be a disservice to the family.
 
  • #909
Even assuming that hospital did something wrong either during or after surgery, that's not going to change the fact that she is now brain dead.
Six specialists have examined her. Everybody agreed she is brain dead.
If family expects a miracle, why do they need her attached to a ventillator?
Turn her off and wait for the miracle.
So they seem to understand her body can't continue without the ventillator.

Well apparently, I will never understand religion try as I might. I would think religious people would want their child to go to God. Keeping her around would seem very selfish to me.
But what do I know?????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
  • #910
Even assuming that hospital did something wrong either during or after surgery, that's not going to change the fact that she is now brain dead.
Six specialists have examined her. Everybody agreed she is brain dead.

Snipped...

You are so correct. We cannot assess what went wrong because we have only family comments; we do not have facts from the surgery/hospital. What we can do, and have already done, is to discuss pulling the plug, what the next steps are/will be for the family, the court case, and THE DONATIONS.

Now, nearly $17,000. "torwards (sic) the fight to keep her on life support." (mother's words)
 
  • #911
Every single patient and family come to health care from different situations. There is a vast array of intellectual capabilities, cultural, and educational backgrounds among all patients, and health care professionals have to do their best to explain things to people of all backgrounds.

Lots and lots of documentation is required now about how much time was spent in consultation answering patient's questions, and what information they were given as they make decisions. Second and third opinions are always encouraged when the patient or family asks. Hospitals in my area are required to ask EVERY patient who is admitted for outpatient or inpatient surgery to fill out forms about end of life decisions ahead of time, as a basis for continuing conversation if the need arises.

There is a wide variation in people's personalities, backgrounds, and intellectual capabilities. The overwhelming majority of modern professionals try to meet patients at their level, and explain everything in terms they can understand. And sometimes patients and their families only hear what they want to hear. Or they are in denial about risks. We have made surgery and anesthesia so safe, with modern drugs and modern procedures, that a large swath of the population truly believes that nothing should ever go wrong, and if there are complications, someone must have been incompetent or made a mistake to cause that. Few people believe that everything can be done "right", and still complications occur.

We have no control over what people truly understand, what they accept, and how they react to what what is going on.

For example, somewhere during Jahi's care a nurse explained in very basic terms the flow volume loop color on the ventilator, probably answering the mother's question about what it was. Someone explained in very basic terms what the settings and rate are. So then the mother assumes she understands "enough" to interpret and criticize changes in ventilator settings, and thinks her daughter's body is attempting to take breaths.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I see it on these discussion groups all the time-- people with a little knowledge think they understand a complex medical situation, and end up misleading a lot of readers. People see an advertisement for a drug in a magazine, and "insist" that their doctor prescribe it for them. The neighbor has an MRI for her headaches, so a patient schedules an appointment and asks for an MRI. People ask for surgeries that are not indicated every day of the week. People are offered surgeries that may or may not solve the problem they are trying to fix. A lot of people research the maintenance procedures on their cars more thoroughly than they research the elective surgeries they have.

Most people, in my experience, absolutely do not want to hear about how their risk factors might affect their care and their health. They are embarrassed, and defensive, and sometimes angry when health care professionals try to discuss the impact of these risk factors. People do not want to acknowledge that they are tremendously overweight, and that affects every aspect of their care. They don't want to understand that smoking affects every body system, shortens their life, and increases their risks. People don't want to face the facts that their sedentary lifestyle, bad diet, and daily alcohol intake has negative consequences that the best health care cannot overcome. A lot of people are in complete denial about how their own choices affect their health and health care, and want to make it all about the doctors and health care professionals not doing a good enough job at the point in which they present for care.

Doctors and other health care providers are not gods. They are people trying to do a very difficult job, with a variety of factors in their patients that they can't control.
 
  • #912
Not to make this a religious discussion but what I don't get about the faithful Facebookers is that they quote the Bible verses about all the dead that Jesus brought back to life and say that God decides, not man, we just have to believe in miracles. But why does God need the child to be on a man made respirator in order to perform his miracle? Lazarus was never on life support.

I view the Bible in the same way that I view Aesop's Fables. There are words of wisdom to be extracted.
 
  • #913
http://www.gofundme.com/Jahi-Mcmath

"I see you are getting close. To God be the Glory." (poster/donor)

Close to what? The $20,000.00 that is now not needed because there's no place to send this child?

"All donations will go torwards the fight to keep her on life support." (mother)

Why is this money still specified at $20,000.00?
 
  • #914
I haven't read the previous posts on this thread so excuse me for being "Johnny Come Lately"!
I just want to say I understand this mother's desperation. This is her child that she entrusted to the medical professionals at CHO and they failed her. Now they want to wash their hands of the entire ordeal. IMO, the hospital wants this entire situation to end because the longer she lingers, the more they will have to pay out in a malpractice suit, i.e. future medical expense. Let's face it, if the surgeon or any surgeon did not come back to see Jahi when she started bleeding out then that is BEYOND WRONG!!!!! This is so very sad and tragic.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
I know I'm in the minority here on this case, but I completely agree with you!!!
And it really doesn't matter what the wishes of the posters here on WS are, it only matters what the family wants, and they do not want to see her die.
 
  • #915
Have you had any sort of non emergency surgery? I have. The risks ARE glossed over. People are brought up to trust and defer to doctors. so while risks are explained they are poo poo'd by the very doctors suggesting the surgery. At least that's been my experience.

While this outcome may be rare, it's an all too real possibility. I'd bet my last dollar it was never detailed to the parents. Risks were glossed over., as they always are!

Ever watch commercials for prescription medications ? It's almost comical that the possible side effects are far worse than what they're prescribed for! While side effects maybe rare... Possible side effects like Anal leakage, death and stokes outweigh any possible benefit IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Hey, Christmas Eve I accidentally OD'd on a new pain med I'd never taken before- took it 4 hours apart rather than 6 because I was confused. When I picked up the prescription I asked the pharmacist about the side effects- she never mentioned nausea and dizziness. I vomited for about 4 hours- so much for the dinner we went out for- it all immediately came back up. I was told I could function- even drive on this medication!!!
 
  • #916
I know I'm in the minority here on this case, but I completely agree with you!!!
And it really doesn't matter what the wishes of the posters here on WS are, it only matters what the family wants, and they do not want to see her die.

She is legally deceased as of 12 Dec, as examined by 6 (7?) different physicians, one court appointed independently.

The hospital doesn't know what to do with a body of a deceased person. State laws apply. The hospital cannot order any doctor to complete surgery on her to move her. Doctors are not employees of hospitals. They rent (sort of) space there for patients/surgery. There has been no doctor that would complete a surgery for Jahi. What is the hospital to do?

The family is actually making it more difficult to determine what went wrong because they are extending machine support. This child is not in a vegetable state; there is no brain activity at all, according to the examining physicians. The hospital is willing to transfer this child, per state laws, but so far no facility (or attending doctor) has been willing to accept her. Per state law, there must be a plan where she goes, how she will be transported. The hospital cannot and is not throwing her out the door.
 
  • #917
She is legally deceased as of 12 Dec, as examined by 6 (7?) different physicians, one court appointed independently.

The hospital doesn't know what to do with a body of a deceased person. State laws apply. The hospital cannot order any doctor to complete surgery on her to move her. Doctors are not employees of hospitals. They rent (sort of) space there for patients/surgery. There has been no doctor that would complete a surgery for Jahi. What is the hospital to do?

The family is actually making it more difficult to determine what went wrong because they are extending machine support. This child is not in a vegetable state; there is no brain activity at all, according to the examining physicians. The hospital is willing to transfer this child, per state laws, but so far no facility (or attending doctor) has been willing to accept her. Per state law, there must be a plan where she goes, how she will be transported. The hospital cannot and is not throwing her out the door.
She is not, her heart is still beating, she is not a corpse. I don't think a Death Certificate has been issued.
 
  • #918
The post I was trying to respond to disappeared while I got booted off, but I will continue to keep Jahi in my thoughts and prayers- and I'm not even Christian!
 
  • #919
I know I'm in the minority here on this case, but I completely agree with you!!!
And it really doesn't matter what the wishes of the posters here on WS are, it only matters what the family wants, and they do not want to see her die.

They already did.

No one ever wants to see their child die but death does not wait for family consent.
 
  • #920
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
74
Guests online
1,575
Total visitors
1,649

Forum statistics

Threads
632,543
Messages
18,628,169
Members
243,191
Latest member
MrsFancyGoar
Back
Top