Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

[Donjeta]

Strange...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...y-found-for-calif-teen-on-ventilator/4231147/

In fulfillment of the hospital's request, Dolan said he had held a three-way conference call Friday with Straus and the director of the nursing home.

Dolan also told the Associated Press on Friday that he had already obtained signed consent from the coroner for Jahi's transfer.

The Alameda County Coroner's Bureau said it had no comment.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/No-medical-center-lined-up-for-Jahi-McMath-s-body-5100141.php

Children's lawyer Douglas Straus said in his letter to Dolan on Sunday that the hospital requires three conditions to transfer Jahi, including assurance the new facility "understands the current condition of the dead body and what is being done to maintain it under Judge Grillo's temporary restraining order"; there is lawful transportation of the body; and authorization from the coroner to transfer the body.

"The family has not identified any facility with which Children's can have this dialogue," Straus wrote. "Nor have we been provided with a transportation plan or coroner authorization."

 

[MyBelle]

Why wouldn't the ICU nurses be aware of what their patients are there for?

Good question.

 

[Piekun]

These are very specific details that are covered under HIPAA and they've been disclosed to the Court so that the media could report it. The Hospital is doing some serious spinning about this case because somebody seriously f'up, imo.

I think neither the family--nor the ICU nurses-- were aware of the other surgical procedures performed.

Wouldn't the family have said something by now if that were the case? Performing surgeries on a child without parent's consent or knowledge is a pretty serious accusation.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

She was taken off the vent as one of the test, she did not breath......The family has also stated she has moved, these movements are spinal reflex movements which do not involve the brain.....I dont understand why this family is misinforming these donators....I understand they are in denial, but it doesnt change facts,she is gone and nothing is gonna bring her back......She isnt on a vent to help her breath, she cant breath at all.........

***THIS POST IS COMPLETELY MY OPINION AND NOT A TERRIBLY POLITE ONE AT THAT, so be warned***

They're misinforming the donors for the money.

I mean, let's just be honest here. Her GRANDMOTHER is a nurse, they KNOW what's going on.

The moment someone brought up the money it totally clicked for me.

 

[MyBelle]

Wouldn't the family have said something by now if that were the case? Performing surgeries on a child without parent's consent or knowledge is a pretty serious accusation.

I think the family's focus now is on keeping their child on life support. I never said they didn't sign a consent for surgery. There was only one surgery.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

***THIS POST IS COMPLETELY MY OPINION AND NOT A TERRIBLY POLITE ONE AT THAT, so be warned***

They're misinforming the donors for the money.

I mean, let's just be honest here. Her GRANDMOTHER is a nurse, they KNOW what's going on.

The moment someone brought up the money it totally clicked for me.

The gpfundme webpage isn't the only fundraiser...

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9375308

They're also planning fundraiser Sunday at 3 p.m. at the Church of All Faiths at 2100 5th Avenue in Oakland. (Last line in article)

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[Donjeta]

JMO. Just because a child had a serious complication and became brain dead as a consequence doesn't mean that every single thing from informing the parents about the planned procedure to the ICU nurses reading the patient's chart was done wrong or neglected before and after the surgery.

 

[Piekun]

I think the family's focus now is on keeping their child on life support. I never said they didn't sign a consent for surgery. There was only one surgery.

Right, she was only in surgery one time, but your post seemed so insulate that the surgeons performed more procedures than what the parents were initially told. Wouldn't the parents have to give consent for all procedures?

I agree that the family is focused on keeping her on "life support", but I certainly think they would have brought it up by now. I know nothing about medical law, but I can only imagine there would (or at least should) be major consequences for doctors performing unauthorized procedures on a child, especially if it lead to their death.

 

[MissJ]

JMO. Any nurse who has a license and especially one who works in ICU would absolutely know what her patient is there for, what was done in surgery, what complications arose (if any) and what she is supposed to do for that patient. To suggest that these very experienced and educated people would not know is absurd! The first thing any nurse does before she/he starts her/his shift is get report and that includes going through the entire history backward and forward from the very thorough chart. The unit manager can/will clear up any questions. Physicians themselves make ICU rounds frequently and talk to the nursing staff. There are usually resident on call as well. Your nurse is your life line. Don't mistake them for people recruited from the streets. I can assure you that no nurse would have told this family that JM was trying to breathe on her own and lastly the grandmother knows that as well.

 

[otto]

Have you had any sort of non emergency surgery? I have. The risks ARE glossed over. People are brought up to trust and defer to doctors. so while risks are explained they are poo poo'd by the very doctors suggesting the surgery. At least that's been my experience.

While this outcome may be rare, it's an all too real possibility. I'd bet my last dollar it was never detailed to the parents. Risks were glossed over., as they always are!

Ever watch commercials for prescription medications ? It's almost comical that the possible side effects are far worse than what they're prescribed for! While side effects maybe rare... Possible side effects like Anal leakage, death and stokes outweigh any possible benefit IMO.


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My son had brain surgery, and he's had numerous MRIs. Each and every time I have been asked to give consent. Consent always includes a complete explanation of the risks. I have had questions about the risks and I have had every opportunity to have my questions addressed prior to giving consent.

At one point, I asked about the risks associated with an injection of gadolinium. Based on my questions and disagreement with the risks, it was decided that although it would be more difficult to get a clear reading, it was possible, so gadolinium was not used again.

It is the patient's responsibility to ask questions if they do not understand. Hospitals do not "gloss" over patient consent, but the patient might choose to "gloss" over the risks. That is not the fault of the hospital.

 

[MissJ]

There was no unauthorized procedure. JM was in the OR one time but multiple procedures were done at that time. The family consented. They have never said otherwise.

 

[Jacie Estes]

People are compassionate and give money. This family has suffered a terrible, emotional loss. They will have funeral expenses when all of this is over.

Considering the turmoil the family's life has been in, I don't see anything wrong with people donating money that will help, be it to transfer Jahi or pay for a funeral. An elderly bus monitor, who did not do her job properly and put up with taunts from kids on a school bus, got close to 3/4 of a million dollars for doing nothing. 20 thousand for this family is not out of line. IMHO,

 

[Kaliste]

The gpfundme webpage isn't the only fundraiser...

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9375308

They're also planning fundraiser Sunday at 3 p.m. at the Church of All Faiths at 2100 5th Avenue in Oakland. (Last line in article)

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There is also an address to send monetary donations to on the Prayers for Jahi FB page. I'm curious how much they've received and where the money is going.

GoFundMe claimed it was going to a flight to get her out if the hospital and that's obviously not the case.

My patience has run out with this family. I can only imagine how the other patients, nurses, doctors and the rest of those at CHO feel right about now.

 

[Kaliste]

The family wants Jahi out of the hospital and I have NO doubt the hospital wants this over with as well. It must be terribly disruptive. Grandma is a nurse right? Why can't the family just disconnect Jahi and take her home?

 

[Linda7NJ]

My son had brain surgery, and he's had numerous MRIs. Each and every time I have been asked to give consent. Consent always includes a complete explanation of the risks. I have had questions about the risks and I have had every opportunity to have my questions addressed prior to giving consent.

At one point, I asked about the risks associated with an injection of gadolinium. Based on my questions and disagreement with the risks, it was decided that although it would be more difficult to get a clear reading, it was possible, so gadolinium was not used again.

It is the patient's responsibility to ask questions if they do not understand. Hospitals do not "gloss" over patient consent, but the patient might choose to "gloss" over the risks. That is not the fault of the hospital.

In thrilled you haven't had the same experiences with glossing over as I have had. Please do not tell me what my experiences have been. You were not there.


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[Isabelle]

The question becomes when was she scheduled to go to the ICU? Were there unanticipated complications during the surgery? The hospital attorney has proclaimed it was a "complicated" surgery but conveniently left off the point in time it became complicated.

Yes, we don't know if the surgery was known to be complicated pre-operatively or it became complicated intra-opertively. We do know it became very complicated post-operatively and that lead to brain death. Use of a yankhauer for suction is concerning, though I can't think of many other methods. Suction pressure could have been problematic.

 

[gngr~snap]

JMO. Just because a child had a serious complication and became brain dead as a consequence doesn't mean that every single thing from informing the parents about the planned procedure to the ICU nurses reading the patient's chart was done wrong or neglected before and after the surgery.

IMO all I can see here is a surgeon that was possibly overzealous, or he agreed to multiple procedures at the request of the family and may have gone ahead against his better judgement.
That is why they pay huge fees and carry malpractice insurance. I'm certain no one purposely harmed this child. They did all they could in the few min it took for her to bleed out. She needed to be returned to the OR, but it looks like things were happening to fast to get her in there.
*or they could have performed surgery there in the ICU as someone stated upthread, but the surgeon would have had to be right there.
We know she had been in the ICU for about 30 min. -per the family, but we don't have any idea how long she had been in the recovery room prior to being moved to ICU.

I wonder how long she was in surgery.
moo

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[momrids6]

Thanks for the links. Because she is a minor, I doubt the official court records are going to become public soon.

documents presented are here; of special interest, imo, is the mother's statement, found at the bottom, which differs from other documented msm quoted statements made.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...s-at-childrens

 

[MyBelle]

JMO. Just because a child had a serious complication and became brain dead as a consequence doesn't mean that every single thing from informing the parents about the planned procedure to the ICU nurses reading the patient's chart was done wrong or neglected before and after the surgery.

Something did happen after she reached the ICU but before her family was allowed to see her.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/165734995/jahi1

The document says she was admitted to the pediatric intensive care unit "as planned".

I don't know Children's but it seems to me that you normally wouldn't plan intensive care if you didn't think that there might be problems.