Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

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  • #1,121
Posting a medical/health are provider's phone number on FB to encourage others to call
as part of a 'keep-the-patient-alive-campaign'?
Summoning a flash mob in a hospital lobby? Who does this?

Does the family believe the general public's 'phone vote' should influence medical decisions for a particular patient?

Has 21st century US life morphed into one never-ending 'reality' show,
where viewers vote participants 'off the island' and dictate medical treatment?

JM2cts and I may be wrong (steps off soapbox). :seeya:


This FB site https://www.facebook.com/keepJahiMcmathonlifesupport
was linked several posts back, but I just noticed the following there from Dec. 23:
<modsnip>

The doctor's phone number is a lifeline for patients. This self-absorbed woman and the rest of her family, and anyone stupid enough to block that number, don't care about the living patients at CHO. I think she, and anyone who follows her, should be charged with harassment and endangerment of every person affected.

Although she has suffered a horrible shock, and in her grief cannot contain her anger, Nailah Winkfield DOES NOT have the right to endanger CHO patients by interfering with their treatment or with their doctors' abilities to plan the treatment of these children. Winkfield does not have the right to harass people who work in any capacity at CHO. She does not have the right to disrupt the focus of people who have their own families to care for by demanding that they pay attention to her and her grief. She does not have the right to slander any one. She does not have the right to never be upset by news she doesn't want to hear. She does not have the right to demand that hospital resources be indefinitely allocated to her daughter. Winkfield does not have the right to tell another mother that her living, seriously ill child must share a room with a corpse. She certainly has no right to expect doctors, nurses, psychologists, and other healthcare workers to play along with her fantasies.

A few predictions. Never again will any hospital in North America bend their rules except in extremely limited circumstances. In fact, rule bending may become almost non-existent as lawyers become more and more involved in protecting all those who work in the Healthcare Industry. Never again will disruptions of hospital routine be permitted--security's mandate will be boosted to permit instant escorting of demonstrators from the premises and not allowing them to re-enter. It will be easier for hospitals to have a protected zone into which people identified as disrespectful of the rights of others are not permitted. Non-hospital press conferences would no longer be allowed on hospital grounds, and it would be the burden of those presenting the conference to find a space to use for the event. Never again will a judge take sentimental holidays like Christmas into an equation when making decisions about whether a person is actually alive or is dead. I don't foresee corpses taking space in hospital ICUs. Instead, I see a hospice-like industry blooming which will keep bodies hooked up to machines for as long as the families and their insurance policies can pay for their upkeep.

IMO, Winkfield and her family are stirring up a lot of mud into the water when what is needed is the clarification of many issues surrounding Jahi's treatment before and during her operation by CHO staff and Jahi's GP, and then Jahi's treatment by CHO staff and Jahi's family during the period following her surgery. It is far from certain what happened during the post-operative phase of Jahi's care and to what extent the actions of Winkfield and other family members contributed to Jahi's heart attack, if at all.

To quote Lao-Tse, "Muddy waters, let stand, becomes clear." There is already enough anger and misunderstanding here. It's time for the circus to stop. The focus has to shift away from Jahi's mother's desire that her love will bring Jahi life once more. Clarity will only be possible, IMO, when hostilities between the family and the hospital cease.

JMO.
 
  • #1,122
The court ordered the ventilator to be stopped Monday (12/30) unless an appeal was filed, correct? Has an appeal been filed yet?
 
  • #1,123
<modsnip>



Of course they haven't referred to her as their dead child. They refuse to accept the medical diagnosis that their child is deceased. Over half a dozen medical professionals and a judge has ruled that she is deceased. It's not an opinion that can be swayed. Whether they accept the diagnosis or not, Jahi is deceased.



Jahi. Is. Deceased.



Having her heart mechanically beat does not mean she is alive.[/QUOTE]





BBM. Jahi's heart is not receiving a mechanical assist. The court documents indicate it is beating on its own and her kidneys are also functioning.


Where are you getting your info? Please provide links.
 
  • #1,124
I wanted to bring old article forward for anyone who may have not read it.

If the attorney files an appeal in the morning it looks like it will have to go to a higher court. There is also some good information about brain death and legal issues from several authorities in the article.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Jahi-McMath-is-brain-dead-doctor-testifies-5091298.php

thanks. The Judge certainly shows his compassion with his comment he hopes they find comfort in their religion.

I think the legal basis for an appeal will be that the family does not believe the hospital has followed established protocol or they are going to accuse them of a cover-up. In her court filing, the mother said the family has asked for medical records repeatedly and their request has been ignored. There is no reason to deny the family the medical records at this point.
 
  • #1,125
Only the family states her kidneys function- and her heart beats due to the vent- in the open letter written by her mother.
 
  • #1,126
So, the family seems to accept brain death, but believes there's life due to the ventilator keeping the oxygen and blood flowing to the heart, which still works. I'm not sure what keeps the kidneys from failing? I understand the heart and lungs, but not how the kidneys continue to filter. Will that be the first major system that fails?

I noticed that too and wondered the same thing. My dad's kidneys were the first organ to fail and the fluid build up was terrible.
 
  • #1,127
Only the family states her kidneys function- and her heart beats due to the vent.

When did they say that? All I've seen is the family states her heart is beating on its own.
 
  • #1,128
When did they say that? All I've seen is the family states her heart is beating on its own.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/open-letter-mother-jahi-mcmath/ncRkn/


An MD states kidneys will function on a vent- ? for how long, I don't know. The letter was written the 20th or 21st.

"As long as a brain dead patient is kept on a ventilator, the heart will still beat, the lungs will still function, the kidneys will still make urine, and muscle reflexes will still exist."

"But without brain function, the person is gone. Physiologically it is the same as cardiac death where the heart stops and all organs then fail. "Brain dead" is physiologically (and legally) exactly the same as "dead". And no court order can change that."

http://docbastard.blogspot.com/2013/12/jahi-mcmath.html
 
  • #1,129
When someone is brain dead, it means that the brain is no longer working in any capacity and never will again. Other organs, such as the heart, kidneys or liver, can still work for a short time if the breathing machine is left in place, but when brain death is declared, it means the person has died.
 
  • #1,130
Wouldn't it be safe to assume that her kidneys could have failed already?

I see that the family has put such sharp focus on her heart still beating (meaning she is still alive), but doesn't mention anything else besides breath which I attribute to the ventilator, obviously.

I almost frightened to guess what the condition poor Jahi's body could be in after two weeks. I really don't want that answer.
 
  • #1,131
When did they say that? All I've seen is the family states her heart is beating on its own.

If her heart were beating on its own, there wouldn't even be a thread here.
 
  • #1,132
  • #1,133
I don't believe the NY facility will take this child. What will be next will be an appeal from the family. Possible there will be a second appeal when the family loses the first one. Meanwhile, this child will lay there, decomposing.
 
  • #1,134
Members of the All Faiths Church had hoped to help Jahi's family with money to move her to another facility. But the event that was planned for 3 p.m. Sunday was cancelled at the last minute.

But they were informed Sunday that a Southern California site they had been hoping on has decided against receiving her.

"I was informed, you know, via the attorney to not have the fundraiser because we're still trying to solidify a facility for Jahi and we definitely don't want to raise funds, you know, for something that is not iron clad," Pastor Derrick Mann said.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9375308
 
  • #1,135
The court ordered the ventilator to be stopped Monday (12/30) unless an appeal was filed, correct? Has an appeal been filed yet?

Listening to the news reports all week-end I can tell you the appeal has yet to be filed with the court.

Courts are not open 24/7. The clerks office will open in the morning. If an appeal is filed it will be in the morning. A request for a stay of the 12/30 order may also be filed.

I live about an hour's drive outside of Oakland. This is a big local story here. The lead story with each local news cast.

Has anyone posted the Fund Raiser planned for today in Oakland was canceled? During the evening news they showed the mother's church praying. Haven't seen the mother or grandmother speak for a day or so. Just the Uncle speaks for the family now. I expect fireworks tomorrow!
 
  • #1,136
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/open-letter-mother-jahi-mcmath/ncRkn/


An MD states kidneys will function on a vent- ? for how long, I don't know. The letter was written the 20th or 21st.

"As long as a brain dead patient is kept on a ventilator, the heart will still beat, the lungs will still function, the kidneys will still make urine, and muscle reflexes will still exist."

"But without brain function, the person is gone. Physiologically it is the same as cardiac death where the heart stops and all organs then fail. "Brain dead" is physiologically (and legally) exactly the same as "dead". And no court order can change that."

http://docbastard.blogspot.com/2013/12/jahi-mcmath.html

I know from my own experience that isn't true. My family member's kidneys started to fail more than a week before his heart and he was in the ICU on a vent and feeding tube.

I find it impossible to believe that a vent will keep heart and kidneys functioning in a brain dead person yet did nothing to assist the kidneys or heart of a guy who suffered a broken hip and leg in a car accident.
 
  • #1,137
I wonder if he'll actually file this tomorrow.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/24315095/lawyer-charts-legal-moves-in-brain-dead-girl-case

A California lawyer said Friday that he is prepared to go to federal court to force a hospital to insert breathing and feeding tubes into a girl who was declared brain dead after complications from a tonsillectomy.

Christopher Dolan told The Associated Press that he is drafting a civil rights lawsuit alleging that Children's Hospital Oakland's refusal to perform the procedures that would allow 13-year-old Jahi McMath to be transferred to a long-term care facility violates her family's religious, due process rights and privacy rights.
 
  • #1,138
Members of the All Faiths Church had hoped to help Jahi's family with money to move her to another facility. But the event that was planned for 3 p.m. Sunday was cancelled at the last minute.

But they were informed Sunday that a Southern California site they had been hoping on has decided against receiving her.

"I was informed, you know, via the attorney to not have the fundraiser because we're still trying to solidify a facility for Jahi and we definitely don't want to raise funds, you know, for something that is not iron clad," Pastor Derrick Mann said.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9375308

No health care facility is going to accept a deceased person, and I very much doubt that a court is going to overturn the order to turn off the machine without new information.
 
  • #1,139
  • #1,140
I don't believe the NY facility will take this child. What will be next will be an appeal from the family. Possible there will be a second appeal when the family loses the first one. Meanwhile, this child will lay there, decomposing.

I am concerned with the other children that are watching Jahi lay there in this state.

I feel that this family will not take Jahi's passing seriously, and with grace, until Jahi is physically showing death.

Breaks my heart that Jahi didn't get to go home and have Christmas with her family. As a mother, I so wanted that.

It's just not the case, and other children are involved here... from their own family to those in the hospital.

It's all so very unsettling, IMO.
 
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