Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[mck16]

We'll that makes sense. Thank you for replying.

So it's not a colostomy bag. That bypasses damaged bowels.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't have any experience but I did Google it. It is a contained tube inserted into the colon through the rectum. It can be done by the person who is using it. A colostomy bag is external and is easily changed.

I personally would prefer the colostomy to the tube. However either one in her case is purely to collect the waste since she can't go to the bathroom. Neither pleasant for the caretaker. jmo

 

[shana]

If the family has a transfer all set, why is it asking for nutrition again?

Attorney representing Jahi McMath seeking court injunction for additional nutrition for brain-dead teen. @kron4news

~jmo~

 

[Zuri]

She's not decomposing, she's not a corpse. Her body is alive, her heart is beating.

IMO you raise an interesting point. How does one define life and how does one define death? The hospital is going by a clinical definition. Medical people go by that definition. But obviously, after reading here, not all people define being "alive" the same way. There is a distinction. If the vent is removed, she does not breathe and subsequently her heart stops. So that would be considered death. Brain death, total and complete, means.......? JMO

 

[LinasK]

LOL well I have to disagree that it is "none of our business and none of our concern" when it is on National News and every online publication I've opened in the past three hours.

I don't think it will make any difference in my personal life one way or the other, regardless of who pays, but since some are debating the moral dilemma, I think the cost bears questioning as it may effect the rest of the family. Has the family considered the expense to continue this route? Do they have other children who might want to go to college someday, or mounting bills like so many in this economy?

The mother is obviously not thinking this way...she is clearly in an emotional state of denial...and, in her mind, her child's life has no price tag. Every good mother gets that...I don't think anyone is saying otherwise...I just know that denial does not stop the world from turning or finances from falling into ruin.

It's a local story for me. I only live about 1/2 hour away from Oakland, and I still consider it none of my business. I want whatever this family wants. Jahi didn't deserve a death sentence, and the law shouldn't impose one, IMO:twocents:.

 

[jjenny]

If the family has a transfer all set, why is it asking for nutrition again?

Attorney representing Jahi McMath seeking court injunction for additional nutrition for brain-dead teen. @kron4news

~jmo~

Good question.

 

[MyBelle]

LOL well I have to disagree that it is "none of our business and none of our concern" when it is on National News and every online publication I've opened in the past three hours.

I don't think it will make any difference in my personal life one way or the other, regardless of who pays, but since some are debating the moral dilemma, I think the cost bears questioning as it may effect the rest of the family. Has the family considered the expense to continue this route? Do they have other children who might want to go to college someday, or mounting bills like so many in this economy?

The mother is obviously not thinking this way...she is clearly in an emotional state of denial...and, in her mind, her child's life has no price tag. Every good mother gets that...I don't think anyone is saying otherwise...I just know that denial does not stop the world from turning or finances from falling into ruin.

How is the mother in a state of denial? If my daughter was reacting to my voice and a pediatrician told me she wasn't brain dead, I'd be fighting using every legal weapon I could use. The last thing on my mind would be how to pay for it all.

 

[LinasK]

IMO you raise an interesting point. How does one define life and how does one define death? The hospital is going by a clinical definition. Medical people go by that definition. But obviously, after reading here, not all people define being "alive" the same way. There is a distinction. If the vent is removed, she does not breathe and subsequently her heart stops. So that would be considered death. Brain death, total and complete, means.......? JMO

Has a Death Certificate been issued?? FYI, I am a "medical person". I worked in nursing homes, hospitals, and home health for 13 years as a therapist. I personally helped insert many an NG Tube.

 

[fruity]

The document does not name the facility. It mentions it and refers the court to another document that has the information. That document is not at the link.

Why does the hospital care where she's going? If she's dead (as they keep saying) what are they concerned with? Good care? They say she's dead.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think (but I could be wrong) its for legal reasons. The paperwork required for transfers needs to list both facilities and they need to be registered (this keeps patients safe otherwise charlatans can persuade families - while they're in a vulnerable state - to transfer patients to their (for example) exclusive and very expensive facility which has excellent rates for the cure of cancer through pure organic juice enemas).

 

[Karmady]

Yes, it is an interesting read. One point that jumped out at me is the reason the Judge ordered the independent evaluation was because he decided the initial one done by the hospital was not done in accordance with standards.

If the child is reacting to touch and showing signs her brain stem is not dead, isn't it very possible she isn't brain dead?

The standard that they not be affiliated in any way with the hospital as I understand it. No breach of testing protocol,medical qualifications or similar. Or maybe I missed something? Personally, I'm glad they brought in the guy from Stanford. I'm sure his conclusions carry a lot of weight and can't honestly be refuted. The only remaining argument is whether brain death is life in the same sense as comas, vegetative states or major brain injuries. I notice that the court filing doesn't even touch that issue and cites case law based on those other types of conditions. I guess they'll cross that bridge when they come to it. Interesting legal issues. Too bad it has to come up in this context.


mo

 

[Kimberlyd125]

If the family has a transfer all set, why is it asking for nutrition again?

Attorney representing Jahi McMath seeking court injunction for additional nutrition for brain-dead teen. @kron4news

~jmo~

To feed a body they think is still alive and are trying to keep alive.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[LinasK]

I think (but I could be wrong) its for legal reasons. The paperwork required for transfers needs to list both facilities and they need to be registered (this keeps patients safe otherwise charlatans can persuade families - while they're in a vulnerable state - to transfer patients to their (for example) exclusive and very expensive facility which has excellent rates for the cure of cancer through pure organic juice enemas).

Yeah, but the new facility does not need the bad PR from the people who want Jahi buried.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

How is the mother in a state of denial? If my daughter was reacting to my voice and a pediatrician told me she wasn't brain dead, I'd be fighting using every legal weapon I could use. The last thing on my mind would be how to pay for it all.

Exactly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jjenny]

How is the mother in a state of denial? If my daughter was reacting to my voice and a pediatrician told me she wasn't brain dead, I'd be fighting using every legal weapon I could use. The last thing on my mind would be how to pay for it all.

What pediatrician told anybody Jahi isn't brain dead? She was examined by six specialists. Everybody agreed she is brain dead.

 

[jaxibear]

The document does not name the facility. It mentions it and refers the court to another document that has the information. That document is not at the link.

Why does the hospital care where she's going? If she's dead (as they keep saying) what are they concerned with? Good care? They say she's dead.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I imagine for liability issues. There are probably laws and regulations that they must follow.

 

[Cubby]

I read the entire thing. Perhaps I missed something, but the only mention I saw was this line:

"Also, new facts were found
by another examining doctor that indicates that Jahi is not suffering
irreversible brain damage"

Is there anywhere in the document where the doctor is named and the specifics are shown?

If new facts were found why did the family's attorney wait until 4pm pt to bring this to the judges attention and not have been working with hospital staff and the facility who has allegedly agreed to accept Jahi as a patient to get the ball rolling for a transfer.

Why wasn't the doctor at court to confirm these 'facts'?
If had just examined Jahi he would certainly be around to help facilitate the transfer.

We are seeing a lot of claims by the family and their attorney with no evidence to back it up.

 

[fruity]

Yeah, but the new facility does not need the bad PR from the people who want Jahi buried.

Of course not. I personally have no problem with them refusing to disclose the location to the public. However, I firmly believe that CHO needs all of the information requested through their attorney on December 27 (available on their website).

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I think (but I could be wrong) its for legal reasons. The paperwork required for transfers needs to list both facilities and they need to be registered (this keeps patients safe otherwise charlatans can persuade families - while they're in a vulnerable state - to transfer patients to their (for example) exclusive and very expensive facility which has excellent rates for the cure of cancer through pure organic juice enemas).

WTHeck are you talking about? I was following you at the beginning but lost you at the juice enemas. I realize it's an example but are you trying to make a point about the cancer center. Having lost someone I love dearly recently at the ripe old age of 38 to colorectal cancer, I don't find your example very relevant or funny.

Taking a break.

UNREAL


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[shana]

The document does not name the facility. It mentions it and refers the court to another document that has the information. That document is not at the link.

Why does the hospital care where she's going? If she's dead (as they keep saying) what are they concerned with? Good care? They say she's dead.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Because, unless it has changed its position (and I've seen nothing to say it has), CHO has terms for releasing her which include a discussion with the receiving facility. There are policies and protocols established for the removal of a deceased person from the hospital; as well, the Coroner will need to approve. (More upthread)

~jmo~

 

[Piekun]

What pediatrician told anybody Jahi isn't brain dead? She was examined by six specialists. Everybody agreed she is brain dead.

In the court documents, their attorney say that new facts from a new examiner has raised the question of whether or not she has suffered irreversible damage. I could not find anywhere in the document where this new doctor is named or why they believe she is not brain dead.

 

[mck16]

I imagine for liability issues. There are probably laws and regulations that they must follow.

I think you are right. And isn't she still their patient until she is admitted to the other facility? Just asking. ty