Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[Kimster]

The namecalling ends. Now. It's clear in our rules that namecalling of players in cases, or each other, is a rules violation. If I see any more namecalling in this thread, the poster gets to be on the outside looking in.

Zero tolerance from this point forward. :saber:

 

[scmom]

It's kind of strange to think that Jahi's mother would have even requested the hospital to perform any further surgery after the catastrophe that happened after the first surgery.

 

[Herat]

It is my opinion that the reason physicians are not stepping up to do the procedure is that CHO will retaliate against them.

I respectfully disagree with you.

No physicians are stepping up to do the two procedures because they recognize the very grey area this puts them in legally, and do not wish to:

1. Be named, and then entangled, in any legal action the family takes against the hospital.

2. Violate a state law against "abuse of a corpse" that would have to be reported to their malpractice carrier and the Medical Licensing Board of California,.

3. Because of the illegality of the procedure, potentially raising their rates or canceling their malpractice.

4. Because of the illegality of the procedure, potentially incurring sanctions from the Medical Licensing Board. This could also incur problems in getting licensed in any other state.

5. Risk a negative action from their medical partners (most of these physicians are in group practices) or any physician who might otherwise refer patients to them.

I think there are so many unknowns for them, and potentially practice-killing unknowns that no one wants to take that risk. And my opinion, only , is that most qualified physicians recognize this child is dead and do not believe it benefits the family to go any farther.

I also need to point out that there is only a small group of physicians who would be qualified to do these two procedures. Most likely two physicians with an anesthesiologist would be required. So now you are asking THREE physicians to get involved.

 

[fruity]

I agree. Which is why, imo, the Hospital is desperate to prevent the transfer of Jahi. They want to keep her "dead." If she moves out of that hospital to another state, she is no longer "legally dead" if there is no death certificate.

It is in the hospital's financial interest to keep her "dead" because it will limit the malpractice payout.

No surprise the Hospital, reverses itself yet again, and is now refusing to allow any outside doctor to do the procedures. The hospital wants this child dead, dead, dead and it has everything to do with $$$$.

all, JMO

The refusal appeared to reverse the position articulated Monday by a hospital spokesman. He said the hospital would allow a doctor retained by the family to insert a feeding tube and to replace the oral ventilator keeping Jahi's heart beating with a tracheal tube - surgical procedures that would stabilize Jahi if she is moved to a facility willing to keep caring for her.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mc...-find-surgeons-to-operate-on-brain-dead-teen/

By reversing their position are you suggesting that people can't change their mind as they are informed of the legal protocol they should be following?

Did you criticise Jahi's family when they reversed their position before Christmas when they said they would let the hospital turn the machines off (the day before their lawyer contacted them)?

 

[MyBelle]

I haven't read that article. Do you have a link I could read this? Thank you!

Here's today's article followed by the article which detailed the three conditions. It seems now that the family has found transportation and a facility, the hospital attorney slammed it to a halt.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=258836693

The refusal appeared to reverse the position articulated Monday by a hospital spokesman. He said the hospital would allow a doctor retained by the family to insert a feeding tube and to replace the oral ventilator keeping Jahi's heart beating with a tracheal tube — surgical procedures that would stabilize Jahi if she is moved to a facility willing to keep caring for her.


Monday's agreement to allow outside physician perform the procedures:

But a spokesman for Children's Hospital Oakland, Sam Singer, has said that even if a facility agrees to take the girl in, three conditions must be met. The family must find an outside physician willing to insert breathing and feeding tubes, a way to transport her, and a facility that is willing to accept "a deceased person," he said.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...cility-20131231,0,4905982.story#ixzz2pC5IcqdK

 

[iluvmua]

The facility looks like an old run down house

 

[Herat]

When has a doctor who has removed organs from a corpse ever lost his license or been arrested?

Until I see a link, I'll believe this is a totally fabricated myth created by CHO.

JMO

There are laws against "abuse of a corpse" and laws about who may perform an autopsy and what sorts of consent is required.

Regardless of whether any physician has ever been charged or convicted, the laws exist, and it is not a myth created by CHO.

With the massive media exposure the family has promoted, there is no way any physician who "operates" on Jahi can be kept confidential and this does, indeed, open them up to charges of abuse of a corpse.

I can only think that being charged with "Abuse of a Corpse", whether convicted or not is very unattractive on the files in the National Practitioner Data Bank which are available to the public and are required to be investigated by an hospital granting medical priviledges. In other words, it has a disgusting tone to it, too.

 

[Herat]

The facility looks like an old run down house

Best line yet!

 

[kimlynn]

And I continue to believe they did more damage by intervening than had they let hospital staff do it.

Also, I do not believe for a second they were ignoring the families pleas for help. Imo, they were asking for or demanding answers to medical info which the nurses were not privy to give the family and could only be given by the doctor.

What a disgrace this whole thing is to Jahi's remains.

Family says they couldn't get any nurses attention to help them.Sounds like the bleed out took minutes to happen.
Jahi wrote a note to mom asking if she was okay.She said she was swallowing mucus (probably blood) so of course family tried to help so she wouldn't choke to death on her own blood.
IMO

 

[Minette]

The facility looks like an old run down house

It is one--they are raising money to renovate it into an inpatient facility eventually.

 

[iluvmua]

Is this facility the one that is run by the hairdresser and her real estate husband?

 

[Herat]

A malpractice lawsuit is not the same as a wrongful death lawsuit.

Yes, I see your point. I had not thought of it as a wrongful death lawsuit.

Can that go concurrently with a malpractice suit?

 

[Minette]

Is this facility the one that is run by the hairdresser and her real estate husband?

Yes, it is. And that photo came from a news story linked on their own site, by the way.

Here is a more recent photo showing a different angle (both photos are from 2013, though):

http://riverheadnewsreview.timesreview.com/2013/12/49818/lions-donate-4k-to-brendan-house-pledge-2k-more-each-year/

 

[vlpate]

It is one--they are raising money to renovate it into an inpatient facility eventually.

...and for enough money..they would take Jahi? I hope hey are accredited and are checked out thoroughly.

 

[MyBelle]

The namecalling ends. Now. It's clear in our rules that namecalling of players in cases, or each other, is a rules violation. If I see any more namecalling in this thread, the poster gets to be on the outside looking in.

Zero tolerance from this point forward. :saber:

sincere question: Is it considered namecalling if the person uses a variety of similar descriptions on his own website? He seems very proud of it but I'll refrain if it isn't allowed.

Sam Singer has been dubbed "The Fixer" by the San Jose Mercury News, a "Top Gun for Hire" by the San Francisco Chronicle, and one of the most powerful people in San Francisco by 7X7 Magazine for his ability to turn the news around when things look dire for his clients....was called “a master spin doctor” by the Las Vegas Review-Journal after Bryan’s victory.

http://www.singersf.com/team/sam.html

 

[momrids6]

It is one--they are raising money to renovate it into an inpatient facility eventually.

Actually, it will be an "independent living" home...big difference , imo

http://www.nbli.org/assets/pdfs/brendanHouseFlyer2013.pdf

 

[meme4]

Is this facility the one that is run by the hairdresser and her real estate husband?

Yes, boggles the mind:banghead:

 

[CCmakes3]

Hi guys, I have been following this tragic case on the tv and only just saw you guys were posting on it. I haven't read everything so you may have discussed this but what about the very few handful that have come back from brain death such as Zack Dunlap? I know a couple of others where it just turns out that the tests were done wrong or whatever and they weren't truly brain dead like doctors had thought but Zack by all accounts was. No activity/blood flow, declared dead and everything ...... There have been many medical people advising on this thread so was just curious your thoughts. This case is a hard one and I tend to lean toward letting her go in peace, but I am a hopeful creature and people such as Zack is why. :/

http://www.notdeadyet.org/2008/03/brain-dead-man-comes-alive-miracle.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23768436/#.UsSb49JDupA

I have to admit that cases like these are compelling. It makes me wonder if waiting 2-3 days after a declaration of brain death might be prudent. It sounds like Zack woke up within 48 hours of being declared brain dead. Unfortunately it has been much longer than that for Jahi.

Many professionals in this thread have talked about changes in the brain's consistency that inevitably occur with brain death. Is there any way those changes can be detected and shown to the family? I know that if it could be proven to me that my loved one's brain was turning into "mush" that would be very convincing to me that their condition was in fact irreversible.

 

[Minette]

Actually, it will be an "independent living" home...big difference , imo

I swear I thought I read somewhere that it was one day planned to become an inpatient facility, but you are probably right. In either case, right now it is in no way, shape, or form a fit place to house someone who is wholly dependent on a ventilator, whether you believe Jahi is dead or not. As others have said, it is a construction site. HOW could any medical professional consider this an ethical or even a humane situation for Jahi to be in? I think the people who are behind this facility probably have their hearts in the right place, but this should not even be in consideration as a last resort, IMO.

 

[Herat]

Yes, it is. And that photo came from a news story linked on their own site, by the way.

Here is a more recent photo showing a different angle (both photos are from 2013, though):

http://riverheadnewsreview.timesreview.com/2013/12/49818/lions-donate-4k-to-brendan-house-pledge-2k-more-each-year/

I see about 10 fire code violations from two pictures of that wreck.

On the other hand, I'll bet it makes a nice hair salon and real estate office.......