Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Herat]

OK, got you.

I suppose it would be logically possible to make a distinction between brain injury and brain death and still think that brain death does not equal death. But it seems awfully confounded in many cases.

That's why the AMA and the neurology professional societies have formal written rules for the designatin of brain death. Rules that are accepted in all 50 states.

One of the brain death cases I cited earlier is very specific in how it describes Kansas law (the state in which it occurred) designates cardiopulmonary death and brain death are both legal definitions of death, and are both medical diagnoses made by physicians.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Can the court order that a deceased body can be transferred to a different location and that CHO is no longer responsible for the body once it leaves their facility?

Where will Jahi go and how will she get there? Family probably wants this done immediately but have proper arrangements been made? The very thought of this child's body being moved like a piece of furniture is skeery

 

[Softail]

https://twitter.com/iseeyou_nurse/status/419093029773795328/photo/1

This is interesting but I truly hope it wasn't written by a person who took care of Jahi. jmo

Hmmm... Interesting. A witness perhaps? :waitasec: This is probably why the family doesn't want the hospital to tell their side of the story. :twocents:

 

[Karmady]

I've seen the same sort of comments on the many news articles. Might be someone who was there with their own child in recovery that day?

handle = icu nurse yipes

 

[Steft50]

IIRC, Prime Minister Sharon had a stroke 8 years ago. He is not considered brain dead is he?

Current information on the former Prime Minister Sharon


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...says-hospital-chief-overseeing-treatment.html

 

[Herat]

Where will Jahi go and how will she get there? Family probably wants this done immediately but have proper arrangements been made? The very thought of this child's body being moved like a piece of furniture is skeery

Nothing like this happens immediately, even when it is supposed to.

First of all, someone has to tell the construction workers to finish the NB building.........

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Where will Jahi go and how will she get there? Family probably wants this done immediately but have proper arrangements been made? The very thought of this child's body being moved like a piece of furniture is skeery

Yes, it's scary in those terms, but it puts pressure of the family attorney to back up his claims that they have a facility, doctor, etc.

eta: it would also silence the family attorney from saying that CHO is blocking the transfer.

 

[ChristYTN]

Hmmm... Interesting. A witness perhaps? :waitasec: This is probably why the family doesn't want the hospital to tell their side of the story. :twocents:

EXACTLY my thought this entire time.

CYA on their part for a few things... 1) feeding her (allowing her to eat) 2) over suctioning 3) too much activity..etc etc

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Isn't there a meeting with Grillo at 9:30 too? I thought I saw that written somewhere...

The 9:30 meeting should have concluded by now. Wonder how long until we'll hear something?

 

[ChristYTN]

One of the biggest complaints my mother has about her nursing career is the large number of family members that will overtake a hospital or room or floor.
There are reasons most ICU only allow 2 people.
When my MIL was in ICU at Vanderbilt, they did allow us to have 5 in there and a couple nurses told me it was because we were 'well behaved'...lol.

So yeah, I'm looking at this from the nurse/hospital side more now...

 

[Donjeta]

That's why the AMA and the neurology professional societies have formal written rules for the designatin of brain death. Rules that are accepted in all 50 states.

One of the brain death cases I cited earlier is very specific in how it describes Kansas law (the state in which it occurred) designates cardiopulmonary death and brain death are both legal definitions of death, and are both medical diagnoses made by physicians.

I'm not talking about the legal definitions. I just meant that it is not inherently an illogical, contradictory position imo that someone recognizes the medical difference of brain injury and irreversible brain death in terms of differences in prognosis of recovery, but still thinks that neither equals death if the heart is still beating and that being pro-life requires keeping up with life support measures even when the case is clearly hopeless. Not what I would advocate but it seems some of the more realistic pro-lifers do (realistic as opposed to those who just think that saying that a brain-dead person may still recover enough times makes it true and that's why aggressive life support is needed).

 

[krimekat]

Hmmm... Interesting. A witness perhaps? :waitasec: This is probably why the family doesn't want the hospital to tell their side of the story. :twocents:

My sentiments exactly after I saw what family members were posting via Instagram after Jahi's surgery last month . . .

While on a vent, her wounds are healing :truce:

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

EXACTLY my thought this entire time.

CYA on their part for a few things... 1) feeding her (allowing her to eat) 2) over suctioning 3) too much activity..etc etc

We can't discuss comments submitted on media sites, but I've read several accounts about the family's "activities" in the ICU

 

[BeginnersLuck]

One of the biggest complaints my mother has about her nursing career is the large number of family members that will overtake a hospital or room or floor.
There are reasons most ICU only allow 2 people.
When my MIL was in ICU at Vanderbilt, they did allow us to have 5 in there and a couple nurses told me it was because we were 'well behaved'...lol.

So yeah, I'm looking at this from the nurse/hospital side more now...

yes, I have this picture in my head of a situation in which there is constant drama at the hospital, by many, many, people on a daily basis. Which would include constantly interrupting staff while they are trying to perform their other duties, taking up space in different areas of the hospital and total disregard for the other patients and families.

I'm not saying that's what is going on here, it's just a mental picture I have of what the hospital may deal with when a situation such as this presents itself.

 

[popsicle]

Bob Redell ‏@BobNBC 1m
#jahimcmath attorney confirms they have a facility that will receive 13 yo girl. Won't say where. Judge knows.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

As a person with a life-long anxiety disorder, I grew up worrying about every issue and thinking through worse-case scenarios. The one positive outcome of my situation is that when emergencies do occur, I am the go-to person as to what-to-do. I think clearly of the options and make quick decisions. As a result, I got my sister to the hospital in time for treatment of a severe kidney infection, I knew the moment my husband's bronchitis turned to pneumonia an got him to the hospital ASAP. I also was one of the few adults who managed to keep track of my students during a day-long bomb situation which included evacuation and relocation for half a day. See, I foresaw the situation and had roster check-lists in my ever-present grade book and checked at every move. I was the only one in the family who didn't panic when my niece's de-clawed cat fell into a basement wall and couldn't get himself out. I considered the location of electrical wires, drains, etc. and chose a section of wall I deemed safe and instructed my DH to make a hole in a specific case. Cat rescued, minimal damage.

I only fall apart and have a real good panic attack when it is all over. LOL!

I need this background for you to understand where I'm coming from concerning this comment and also include for everything posted below the following: IJHO, JMHO, :moo::moo::moo:. While it is not a likely long-term of this particular situation, it is a logical one IMHO, JMHO, :moo::moo::moo:.

Should Jahi's family be given everything they want and laws fall state-by-state concerning individuals who are declared brain dead by 3 doctors or more, we could be in for a new nightmare scenario as suggested by Robin Cook's medical novel, Coma.

I see facilities lined with beds containing the brain dead. I envision row upon row of ventilators, feeding tubes, every medication and nutrient feeding the "patients". Legions of nurses, CNA's, LVN's, registered nurses, doctors, and surgeons tend to every medical necessity to keep the "patients" at their peak performance until the inevitable happens. The bed is not empty for long, there is another "patient" on the waiting list.

All of this at a tremendous cost to our society, morally, emotionally, and economically.

Is this what they want?

 

[Softail]

Bob Redell ‏@BobNBC 2m
#jahimcmath attorney confirms they have a facility that will receive 13 yo girl. Won't say where. Judge knows.

Bob Redell ‏@BobNBC 1m
#jahimcmath attorney: still need to resolve issue of trach and feeding tube.

 

[Herat]

The toughtest nurses I know of and the ones I have the most respect for are the NICU and PICU nurses.

Not only do they have a tremendous fund of knowledge and skills, but they have to run interference with families, and are always the advocate for the child's best interest.

The kinds of abuse and manipulation they get from family members can be truly challenging and is not the same as the kinds of issues in adult patients.

Whenever a formal lawsuit or investigation is made, their testimony will be of major impact, only secondary by degree from the physican testimony.

 

[popsicle]

Bob Redell ‏@BobNBC 2m
#jahimcmath attorney confirms they have a facility that will receive 13 yo girl. Won't say where. Judge knows.

Bob Redell ‏@BobNBC 1m
#jahimcmath attorney: still need to resolve issue of trach and feeding tube.

The second one will not be resolved hru the courts imo.

 

[popsicle]

taramoriarty ‏@taramoriarty1 50s
Waiting #JahiMcMath hospital spokesperson says big changes are coming in case in next few minutes @KTVU