Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[MyBelle]

IMO, they aren't "rushing to ignore standards". They have already determined that she is indeed brain dead.

The Judge ruled they ignored standards. If they had not ignored standards, the Judge would have accepted the initial evaluation.

How many parents have accepted the initial evaluation at that hospital and made decisions based on it? I guess the Dept. of Health will find out in the course of their investigation. I have no clue but I'm betting Jahi isn't the first. my opinion.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The world needs more like him.



I think he's truly enraged over the outrageous treatment of this family. I hope the Dept. of Health opens the financial books of this institution and investigates thoroughly.

I bet his mom is very proud! I certainly would be!


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[jjenny]

Which is exactly the part it have a problem with. She's a minor child with a mother. I don't believe the hospital, the law or anyone else has the right to terminate her parental rights because her daughter was gravely injured.


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Well, obviously CA legislature believes it.
Hospital has to follow the laws.

 

[Herat]

The world needs more like him.

I think he's truly enraged over the outrageous treatment of this family. I hope the Dept. of Health opens the financial books of this institution and investigates thoroughly.

Well, then our opinions of Mr. Dolan differ substantially

I will wait for the facts of the case.

 

[jjenny]

The Judge ruled they ignored standards. If they had not ignored standards, the Judge would have accepted the initial evaluation.

How many parents have accepted the initial evaluation at that hospital and made decisions based on it? I guess the Dept. of Health will find out in the course of their investigation. I have no clue but I'm betting Jahi isn't the first. my opinion.

I really don't think this is the only hospital that supposedly "ignored" standards. There is nothing in that law that says the two physicians have to be independent from the hospital. Only from one another. This judge is interpreting the law in a very peculiar way, IMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Religious beliefs. Orthodox Jews don't believe in brain death.

I know.
"What" referred to your belief the state of New Jersey is respectful of its citizens because there are lots of Jewish people here.




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[Linda7NJ]

This one?



http://catholiceducation.org/articles/medical_ethics/me0054.html



If so, I see the linkage temporally, but is there more to it than that?

If you google all the references used ... There's load of info there.


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[Karmady]

The Judge decided the standard was not met. I guess he decided the definition of "independent" and that the hospital failed to meet it. It is Judges who decide those things and sometimes statutes are clarified with additional revisions.

Imo, he determined that, absent a defintion of independent, the rule might not have been met. Therefore, given the gravity of the issue and the time constraints of a TRO, he wasn't going to definitively rule on that issue. Instead, he ordered a third-party evaluation, which confirmed the findings of Childrens.

I'm sure Childrens felt they were complying with the standard and, that if this goes any further, we'll see "independent" findings under the Uniform Act from all over the country where two docs from the same institution have independently confirmed brain death. jmo

 

[jjenny]

I know.
"What" referred to your belief the state of New Jersey is respectful of its citizens because there are lots of Jewish people here.




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It's the only state that doesn't define someone legally dead if they are brain dead, if the family's religious beliefs state otherwise. It's the state with a large population of people whose religious beliefs state otherwise.
I made a guess that the fact that the state had a large population of people whose religious beliefs state otherwise had something to do with it being the only state that doesn't define brain death as legal death.

 

[Steft50]

OMG, the mother says the nurse told her it is normal to bleed from the mouth.

I'm guessing you mean when the bleeding got heavier?

Two of my kids have had the tonsil and adnoids removed, my son also had tubes put in his ears, and there was some bleeding...from the mouth and nose on both and from the ears also on my son. It was a little heavier than an ooze but less than a hemorrage, and I was told that the bleeding like they were was normal.

 

[joypath]

IMO, they aren't "rushing to ignore standards". They have already determined that she is indeed brain dead.

IMHO, the interpretation of "independent" physician is/was meant as "he/she who is NOT directly providing medical services" to the patient. One can find that terminology in the medical staff by-laws at many medical facilities. In this case the Judge went beyond the usual & customary definition to bring in an outside physician...rather like one does in a courtroom (with which the Judge is familiar) as an "expert witness". The elaboration of the standards & practices were NOT defined within the legal statement of the Judge.

 

[wannabeasupersleuth]

I guess I'm still in shock that this family went to the media with such a private matter. THEN, hires a <modsnip> lawyer who does nothing but slander CHO, right along with the family! THEY will not allow CHO to have a voice. We're getting nothing but the families "facts" and opinions. Do we really believe statements such as the nurses told Jahi's mother that the bleeding was normal?? Grief will do a number on your mind and your emotions. Are they really considering the facility in NY as a place that's capable of caring for Jahi? Do they even know it's not built yet? Are they just pulling everyone's leg for money?? I get it, they're desperate, but people are over it! Is this what medicine is coming to?? WE can just defy the laws of medicine to do what we want with our dead relatives? And if we don't get our way, we cry to the media??
Bottom line, this is a private family matter. Shame on them for turning this into a media circus. Now let the poor baby rest in peace.

 

[scmom]

I've gone over and over the judge's ruling issued on December 23, 2013 and I don't see anything about the hospital ignoring standards. Maybe someone could point this out.
http://thaddeuspope.com/images/12-23-13_Modified_TRO_CMO_appoint_Fisher.pdf

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfranci...ht-over-jahi-mcmaths-life/Content?oid=2663281

Here is an article just written by Chris Dolan. Pulls at my heart strings...

Kind of gives a human/personalized and compassionate look at the situation. Thanks for posting this.

She is a beautiful girl who is loved by her family.

Not just an unnamed corpse laying in a room.

God bless this family.

 

[MyBelle]

I bet his mom is very proud! I certainly would be!


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Absolutely. I also believe whomever filed the complaint with the Dept of Health is a person to be admired. I don't believe it was Dolan, I believe it is someone on staff. The mother has made a point of thanking the staff who have shown them compassion.

 

[jjenny]

Imo, he determined that, absent a defintion of independent, the rule might not have been met. Therefore, given the gravity of the issue and the time constraints of a TRO, he wasn't going to definitively rule on that issue. Instead, he ordered a third-party evaluation, which confirmed the findings of Childrens.

I'm sure Childrens felt they were complying with the standard and, that if this goes any further, we'll see "independent" findings under the Uniform Act from all over the country where two docs from the same institution have independently confirmed brain death. jmo

Exactly. The law says nothing about physicans having to be from a different hospital. In fact I am pretty sure hospitals don't normally invite in physicans from other hospitals to confirm brain death. It would not be an easy process, I presume, if these physicans don't have privileges in the hospital. Seems to me like the judge came up with a whole new standard.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, obviously CA legislature believes it.

Hospital has to follow the laws.

There is a thing called the constitution ...I think it's a first amendment issue.
I'm rather fond of the constitution and it seems many are very unfamiliar ...

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that comprise the Bill of Rights.



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[MyBelle]

Imo, he determined that, absent a defintion of independent, the rule might not have been met. Therefore, given the gravity of the issue and the time constraints of a TRO, he wasn't going to definitively rule on that issue. Instead, he ordered a third-party evaluation, which confirmed the findings of Childrens.

I'm sure Childrens felt they were complying with the standard and, that if this goes any further, we'll see "independent" findings under the Uniform Act from all over the country where two docs from the same institution have independently confirmed brain death. jmo

I think Childrens will have an opportunity to give their "side" to the Dept. of Health in it's investigation, which seems to have been launched around the same time as the "independent" evaluation.

Anita Gore, spokeswoman for the state Department of Public Health, on Tuesday told NBC Bay Area the investigation was launched two weeks ago and could not get into the details of the investigation.


http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...Investigating-Jahi-McMath-Case-238319021.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's the only state that doesn't define someone legally dead if they are brain dead, if the family's religious beliefs state otherwise. It's the state with a large population of people whose religious beliefs state otherwise.

I made a guess that the fact that the state had a large population of people whose religious beliefs state otherwise had something to do with it being the only state that doesn't define brain death as legal death.

Can you find me a link that NJ has more Jewish persons than any other state...something to back it up ?


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[BeginnersLuck]

The Judge ruled they ignored standards. If they had not ignored standards, the Judge would have accepted the initial evaluation.

How many parents have accepted the initial evaluation at that hospital and made decisions based on it? I guess the Dept. of Health will find out in the course of their investigation. I have no clue but I'm betting Jahi isn't the first. my opinion.

No

The standard is for two independent meaning different physicians to perform the tests. They did not do anything wrong. The judge then said that due to unique circumstances in the case, he ordered an outside evaluation to be performed and they agreed on Dr. Fisher to do it.

The information is in this court document as to the circumstances.

http://thaddeuspope.com/images/McMath_EXHIBITS_2_of_2.pdf