Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[SophieRose]

I presume it's due to a large Jewish population there.

Well it was mentioned in a post that New Jersey law was different because of the Orthodox Jewish population who believe that life ends when the heart stops beating. But the law as I posted it was not specific to that religion.

 

[scubadvr99]

Have you looked up tonsillectomies and the other procedures on the web? Yes it is normal to bleed and the nurse may have told them that. It's the amount of bleeding that may not be normal.

You are correct. It is normal to bleed and sometimes it can be a good bit. The nurse would know that it is common, especially in the post op area. And if she was worried about the amount, at any point she could have contacted the physician to check the patient. (And the nurse may have contacted the physician) All of that will come out at a later time. It doesn't really factor into decisions right now.

 

[Karmady]

I think Childrens will have an opportunity to give their "side" to the Dept. of Health in it's investigation, which seems to have been launched around the same time as the "independent" evaluation.

Anita Gore, spokeswoman for the state Department of Public Health, on Tuesday told NBC Bay Area the investigation was launched two weeks ago and could not get into the details of the investigation.


http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...Investigating-Jahi-McMath-Case-238319021.html

The "independent" issue is not the subject of the investigation, imo. And "investigations" are cheap lol

 

[Linda7NJ]

Kind of gives a human/personalized and compassionate look at the situation. Thanks for posting this.

She is a beautiful girl who is loved by her family.

Not just an unnamed corpse laying in a room.

God bless this family.

I'm
Still reeling from reading the hospital staff keeps referring to her as "the body" to her family.

That's beyond disturbing!

I have a girlfriend whose husband is a mortician ...he ALWAYS refers to the decedent by their name. And not by their first name either! Always formally ...Mr.Jones, Miss Evans etc...
The dead and embalmed get MORE respect than this child by hospital employees.


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[MyBelle]

Can you find me a link that NJ has more Jewish persons than any other state...something to back it up ?


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I'm trying to figure out the logic of such an argument. Apparently California doesn't have a large Jewish population therefore the law defining death isn't influenced by this religion but New Jersey's is influenced because of a large Jewish population. Therefore, Jahi's Christian beliefs will be more accepted in Jewish dominated New Jersey than in Cali. Yet, our federal Constitution specifically addresses freedom of religion. Religion should not be an issue in either state but it is in California. No wonder her family filed in federal court.

 

[MyBelle]

The "independent" issue is not the subject of the investigation, imo. And "investigations" are cheap lol

The subject of the investigation is the Hospital. According to the Dept of Health:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...Investigating-Jahi-McMath-Case-238319021.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm trying to figure out the logic of such an argument. Apparently California doesn't have a large Jewish population therefore the law defining death isn't influenced by this religion but New Jersey's is influenced because of a large Jewish population. Therefore, Jahi's Christian beliefs will be more accepted in Jewish dominated New Jersey than in Cali. Yet, our federal Constitution specifically addresses freedom of religion. Religion should not be an issue in either state but it is in California. No wonder her family filed in federal court.

Totally agree!


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[Linda7NJ]

What also shocking to me is so many people want to deny this mother her rights, deny the rights of her supporters...

I have relatives that died on American soil for those rights and people seem to want to trample all over them.

Boggles the mind.


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[CCmakes3]

You also have to remember that the CT scan showed degeneration of the brain, and no blood flow.

I suppose they could repeat the CT scan and show even more degeneration. There are multiple tests and exams that are done.

I also have to state that the physicians that perform these tests are extremely aware of how emotional and sensitive the information is that they must convey. These are people that have to deal with inoperable tumors, severe brain disabilities, coma, vegetative states, and brain death. They regularly have to give devastating news to parents. These are kind and sensitive people who know they must tell the truth to parents. They are very strict in their examinations and not at all cavalier about interpreting the findings. Some issues are not black and white, but shades of grey. All the reports I have read about the physician reports on Jahi were unequivocal. She is brain dead. May she rest in peace.

I do understand that many different types of diagnostic tests are performed before declaring someone brain dead. I'm just curious as to the order of these tests, and whether the apnea test comes after an EEG, CT scan etc. I imagine it varies. If I had a choice, I'd want the EEG or CT to come first. :seeya:

 

[MyBelle]

You are correct. It is normal to bleed and sometimes it can be a good bit. The nurse would know that it is common, especially in the post op area. And if she was worried about the amount, at any point she could have contacted the physician to check the patient. (And the nurse may have contacted the physician) All of that will come out at a later time. It doesn't really factor into decisions right now.

If it was normal bleeding, can you explain how and why the patient went from popsicle to brain dead in an ICU in a matter of minutes? Is that considered "normal" in California?

 

[Herat]

If it was normal bleeding, can you explain how and why the patient went from popsicle to brain dead in an ICU in a matter of minutes? Is that considered "normal" in California?

I guess we'll just have to wait for the facts to be revealed, rather than internet speculation.

 

[jjenny]

What also shocking to me is so many people want to deny this mother her rights, deny the rights of her supporters...

I have relatives that died on American soil for those rights and people seem to want to trample all over them.

Boggles the mind.


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What rights are being denied, exactly? The relatives should be able to decide whether someone is actually dead? Is that a right now?

 

[scubadvr99]

The Judge ruled they ignored standards. If they had not ignored standards, the Judge would have accepted the initial evaluation.

How many parents have accepted the initial evaluation at that hospital and made decisions based on it? I guess the Dept. of Health will find out in the course of their investigation. I have no clue but I'm betting Jahi isn't the first. my opinion.

I think the judge may be interpreting this differently. Typically, the hospital has an "Ethics committee" so that when something like this happens, they will have the assessments of multiple physicians in the facility before making a decision about this. Some may or may not have outside physicians come in.

 

[Linda7NJ]

What rights are being denied, exactly? The relatives should be able to decide whether someone is actually dead? Is that a right now?

Many Posters here don't believe she has the right to go to court, that her supporters don't have the right to peacefully assemble, that her religious beliefs should be ignored.

That's huge IMO


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[Linda7NJ]

I guess we'll just have to wait for the facts to be revealed, rather than internet speculation.

Speculation is kinda what we do here


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[iluvmua]

Has anybody read this yet?

This will tell you how horrible (sarcasm) the hospital is treating this family:

http://www.sfgate.com/file/704/704-ChildrensHospitalP&A.pdf

This hospital has done EVERYTHING to accomedate (sp) this family and yet the family and their lawyer continues to blame and bash them every chance they get.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Odd to the the hospital needed parental consent to do the surgery yet can strip a mother of her parental rights without even a trial.



It's crazy.

Reminds me of....

"Mr. Bumble had little use for judicial reasoning. In Dickens' Oliver Twist, he put it rather bluntly: "'If the law supposes that', said Mr. Bumble, 'the law is a — a idiot.'"


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[Zuri]

http://thaddeuspope.com/futilitycases.html

He has the court papers there.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfranci...ht-over-jahi-mcmaths-life/Content?oid=2663281

Here is an article just written by Chris Dolan. Pulls at my heart strings...

After reading all the court documents and the article by Mr. Dolan, I personally have a better understanding of the legal arguments being presented. If Jahi's blood pressure and heart rate are dropping precipitously, it does not sound as though her cardiac condition is stable.

If I understand the judge's ruling correctly, CHO is to maintain the "status quo" so to speak. So if Jahi's condition deteriorates, CHO is not required to perform "life saving measures". So the DNR status is moot? Did I understand this correctly? TIA.

 

[scubadvr99]

If it was normal bleeding, can you explain how and why the patient went from popsicle to brain dead in an ICU in a matter of minutes? Is that considered "normal" in California?

I didn't say that she had "normal bleeding". I wasn't there and I am not in California. I said that it is normal to have bleeding after this procedure and sometimes it can be a good bit. At any point the physician can be contacted to come evaluate, this will be relevant at a later time.

Right now the issue is, she has been determined to be brain dead by independent evaluations.

 

[momrids6]

I totally agree with you about the mother's rights as a parent. It is the actions of the hospital administrator, lawyer and PR consultant that shock me.

RSBM: Just as one cannot yell "fire' in a crowded room, giving birth does not give one free reign to do as they wish to their child/children.