Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Zuri]

This is what they want. It takes no effort on their part to actually made decisions or provide care for her. They get to be in the public spotlight with their fundraising for some unknown facility to take her in the future. They get immediate access to the local media.

This is all they want.

No responsibility.

Funds at their disposal without the formalities of having to create a foundation or 501-c or resport to the IRS.

They can stay at home and continue their other daily activities.

Plenty of media exposure with boatloads of sympathy and approval.

No worries about actually having to pay for this.

Meanwhile, nurses and physicians at CHO have to go about their daily care of Jahi, have to continued their documentation, their bathing, bowel and urine hygiene. And it is a difficult task to care for a brain dead child, just as for a terminally ill child. These medical professionals have families, they are sad and probably really ethically challenged in perpetuating the care for the body of a child who will never ever come back, and, instead, is clearly deteriorating in their eyes. Especially as the family seems to express unrealistic beliefs she will be back to normal. This must be really painful for these people.

She occupies a hospital bed intended for a living sick child.

Perfectly said. Your statement about assuming "no responsibility" IMO says it all. They want what they can't have without any consideration for anyone else. IMO

 

[J1981]

IIRC the fundraiser that was being done by the Preacher and church was canceled at the request of the lawyer because the facility and travel had not been guarenteed at that time.

You're right- thanks for clarifying. It was the preacher that was the mouthpiece sharing the news of the cancelation.

Wonder why the new fundraiser hasn't been cancelled too though, especially seeing that the Go Fund Me one is doing just fine on its own.

 

[Steft50]

I find it interesting that no surgeons have come forth to do the procedures. Even those that believe in circulatory death and not brain death.

Why do you think that is? The right to life community would embrace the surgeon as a hero to the little person that is fighting big medicine.

Didn't the lawyer say there was but the hospital refused to allow the Dr to do it?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

The hospital will stand firm in the settlement conference. They can transfer Jahi in her current condition at anytime, as long as the coroner approves the transfer and as long as the family signs releases that once Jahi leaves the hospital, the hospital is no longer responsible for Jahi.

The problem is they do not have a plan as they have stated. I do not see how any court can order any facility or group of physicians to operate. Jahi will either be maintained in ICU or they have to move her to where....?, while this case ties up the court system. The family attorney in these court proceedings, will be trying to convince the judge to force the hospital to provide additional means to Jahi's body because her heart will not hold out much longer without these measures being put in place.

It was released in the media that the Terri Schiavo Foundation has been working to help move Jahi for weeks. The person that runs this facility is part of that network. I have yet to see them address brain death. I have yet to see them help produce a physician or qualified facility that will take Jahi. They have instead posted misleading stories of others that have recovered from coma and vegetative states and used the term "brain death" when doing so. Considering this organization has been around for years, they certainly know the difference. The stories they post are scare tactics and this is done to try and get the uninformed to side with them.

http://www.terrisfight.org/about-terri-s-network/

That brings us to the "right to life" issue and groups that no matter what scientific or practical data you present to them, they shut their ears and eyes. They have alternate agendas and by challenging the laws at one end they can use that to challenge the laws at the other. Despite the laws, they will work hard to tie up the court systems and create as much havoc as possible, because they have been unsuccessful at this point in changing those laws. They work hard to get elected officials in office that share their similar views, in hopes that eventually they can overturn these laws. One thing that I see them never doing is addressing all practicality on how those such as Jahi, will be cared for, other than throwing that back on the system.

A system which lacks the facilities, funds and medical professionals that would be required to care for these individuals that have no chance at recovery or life. This would take away life saving funds for other causes for the living. It would be a nightmare of a waste of money and medical resources if it became illegal to withdraw brain dead from support or if others didn't have the right to advanced directives to end life support if they were terminally ill or in vegetative states. It would be a nightmare for loved ones to watch as these patients suffer and deteriorate before their eyes or for those in the medical field to care for those that have no family and watch them suffer and deteriorate. These laws have been enacted for humanitarian reasons!

Those in the pro life movement, are the ones that "primarily" make up the comments we are seeing under news articles in MSM and on SM. Someone has posted that they ask and the family is not running the support FB page. I don't know if this is true or not, but I would be willing to guess who is and where the supporters on that page are primarily coming from.

Laws have been established that everyone has a right to sign advance directives. Family is also given options to discontinue life support for relatives, when physicians tell them that chance of recovery is little to none in those that are in coma's or vegetative states. No physician can remove life support without a advanced directive or family consent on those that are not declared brain dead.

Declaring brain death requires extensive tests to be performed. There are extensive guidelines to follow when doing these tests. They should be performed by two qualified physicians, hours apart. There should be no medications or otherwise, that would interfere with the results of these tests in the patients system. These physicians should not be in anyway associated with organ procurement of the patient.

Two qualified physicians from the hospital performed these tests on Jahi. There were also three other outside physicians that either the family or hospital had come in that examined Jahi and confirmed that she was brain dead, to help the family come to terms with the diagnosis. This all happened prior to the court proceedings. The court then had the family and hospital agree on a top expert, Dr. Fisher, to come in and examine Jahi. Dr. Fisher was ask to come in and do the examine because he is not affiliated with the hospital and there is a ongoing lawsuit. The family and courts wanted to make sure there was no special interest in the hospitals diagnosis of brain death.

(Crap, I lost my whole train of thought. :floorlaugh

eta: To sum it up, Jahi will be kept at CHO until her heart stops or the court ends this circus, unless by some odd chance a qualified facility and physician agree to take her and treat her.
The attorney knows this and whats the courts to force CHO to provide additonal treatment to keep her heart and other organs going. All JMO....

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Didn't the lawyer say there was but the hospital refused to allow the Dr to do it?

IIRC, the physician does not have privileges at Children's Hospital. Most hospitals do not allow non-staff physicians to perform surgery.

 

[joypath]

Totally agree with your comment that there are very very few surgeons that don't belive in brain death.

Tracheostomy: General surgeon and/ or ENT
PEG tube: General surgeon or gastroenterologist
Still need an anesthesiologist.

Just ain't gonna happen. None of these people is going to risk their career and license over this.

Add me to the "totally agree" category (& if I ever remember how to multi-quote I'd have added K-Z's statement for impact!)

There's another issue that probably beginning to surface: staff burn-out /or opt-out of "assigned patient care". The Joint Commission (TJC aka "JACHO") has required that hospitals/facilities have a protocol to address staff who can not/will not "treat"/administer to situations that morally/religiously go against belief systems of the employee/provider.
Beyond the possible loss of license, here's another reason why folks aren't lining up to provide "services". And can't you just see an aggressive DA charging a medical provider with abuse of a corpse for the post mortem surgical invasive procedure(s).....

All my personal opinion: ('cept that TJC stuff!)

 

[momrids6]

It was released in the media that the Terri Schiavo Foundation has been working to help move Jahi for weeks.

http://www.terrisfight.org/about-terri-s-network/

That brings us to the "right to life" issue and groups that no matter what scientific or practical data you present to them, they shut their ears and eyes.

The Schindlers themselves seem to have a bit of a problem that I see here:

Schindler Family's Statement on Medical Examiner's Report:

"Terri was brain-injured. This does NOT mean that she was brain-dead. Many seem to not understand this critical distinction."


http://www.terrisfight.org/assets/Uploads/Documents/Family-State-June-2005.PDF

 

[Donjeta]

Didn't the lawyer say there was but the hospital refused to allow the Dr to do it?

MOO, I don't think they have ever had anyone lined up to do it.

"They're speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They say one thing and we go down that road, and then they say something else," Dolan said of hospital officials. "The hospital said, 'Bring us a doctor' and we said, 'Tell us the conditions' and now, they've wasted a half a day of our time. We don't have much time."

Hospital spokesman Sam Singer said later: "This is academic. They have not produced a single physician."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=258836693

I

n a posting on the network’s web site on New Year’s Day, family attorney Chris Dolan says the holiday and Children’s Hospital Oakland are both working to prevent the move.
“We continue to seek a tracheostomy procedure for Jahi McMath before she departs for or upon arrival in New York,” Dolan said on the site. “However, many surgeons and hospital administrators are on holiday making our goal difficult to reach. If Children’s Hospital Oakland would perform the procedure we could quickly move Jahi to a facility that provides innovative world-class treatments, of the type being given to Prime Minister Sharon in Israel.
“Amazing research opportunities exist but Children’s Hospital Oakland holds the key to Jahi’s death sentence – a simple tracheostomy procedure, despite a mother’s plea and the money to pay for it. Instead they starve her. Our plea is for a courageous ENT specialist physician to step forth and give this mother the choice and this child a chance.”

http://news.kron4.com/news/terri-schiavo-foundation-helping-jahi-mcmaths-family/

 

[scmom]

Well, I'll lob another question since that's what I'm best at doing. Since the coroner, as far as I know, only deals with the dead, is he going to have to make an official declaration before Jahi's body can be moved from the hospital to any other location?

 

[meme4]

http://www.terrisfight.org/about-terri-s-network/

I went to the site above, nowhere on the site is Terri Shavio's autopsy mentioned which stated she suffered massive, irreversable brain damage and was blind...There was no therapy that would help....She was not brain dead.......

 

[Peliman]

While I can feel for this mother and the decision she must make, I don't think she's listening to reason or willing to listen to reason in this case. She's in the same position as 10's of thousands before her. Science has yet to develop the ways and means to bring someone back from brain death.

We've come a long way but before 1940ish we had nothing to even fight illness and injury such as pneumonia, rheumatic fever, streptococcal infections, typhoid fever, gangrene and STD's.

While people prayed for their loved ones it didn't work, they died until someone prayed for the wisdom to discover and produce penicillin.

Medicines come a long way, heart lung machines, artificial hearts, DNA, so many achievements. There is still no way to reverse brain death. Some things need put Gods hands to care for even if we as humans can't accept it.

I think the courts will have to decide for the mother, I don't think she's ready, willing and able to accept her daughters death. I don't think she will ever be, like the 10's of thousands before her.

 

[Softail]

On May 28, 2010 at @11pm in Ponchatoula, LA, my father had a minor car accident and was awake, alert and oriented at the scene, walking around. He was taken to the local hospital where they did a CT of his head, because he was on Coumadin for atrial fib (controlled). They did a CT of his back because he was complaining of back pain and found a fracture of L2. They medicated him for pain and he drifted off to sleep. The hospital had arranged a transfer to Ochsner in New Orleans where his L2 fracture could be treated.

Zuri - So sorry about your dad! :grouphug:

 

[Donjeta]

The Schindlers themselves seem to have a bit of a problem that I see here:

Schindler Family's Statement on Medical Examiner's Report:

"Terri was brain-injured. This does NOT mean that she was brain-dead. Many seem to not understand this critical distinction."


http://www.terrisfight.org/assets/Uploads/Documents/Family-State-June-2005.PDF

But they're right, aren't they? Terri Schiavo wasn't brain-dead, she could breathe on her own.

 

[Softail]

(Crap, I lost my whole train of thought. :floorlaugh

:lol: :silly: That cracked me up!

 

[Zuri]

MOO, I don't think they have ever had anyone lined up to do it.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=258836693

I
http://news.kron4.com/news/terri-schiavo-foundation-helping-jahi-mcmaths-family/

IIRC, Prime Minister Sharon had a stroke 8 years ago. He is not considered brain dead is he?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

IIRC, Prime Minister Sharon had a stroke 8 years ago. He is not considered brain dead is he?

Comatose and in critical condition. Currently worsening with organs failing.

 

[momrids6]

But they're right, aren't they? Terri Schiavo wasn't brain-dead, she could breathe on her own.

Yes, they are correct- but they themselves make the "critical distinction".

According to their own words, Jahi is not in the same category as Terri.

 

[Isabelle]

From my experience, a patient transfer from a hospital to a long term care facility requires the attending physician's written order. The long term care facility is most often acquired by hospital staff; when time permits family may look for and visit the LTC facilities and tell hospital staff which facility they prefer. A discharge from the hospital and transfer are orders that the attending physician must write, unless the patient/family choose to vacate the hospital AMA (against medical advice). The process for placement of a tracheostomy and feeding tube are similar, except the attending writes the referrals naming the doctors to perform the procedures. Neither transfer nor procedures will occur if the attending physician does not write an order and safe to say no other physician will go over the attending's head and write the orders.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

:lol: :silly: That cracked me up!

Yes, I got up to do something and poof...

Not directed at your post.....

I do realize that the TS was not brain dead but they are supporting this and backing it. Therefore, they fall into the "right to life" category.

Even if they are well aware of Jahi's condition and how it differs from their daughters, they are still promoting that Jahi should be kept on the ventilator because her heart is still beating.

 

[popsicle]

https://twitter.com/iseeyou_nurse/status/419093029773795328/photo/1

This is interesting but I truly hope it wasn't written by a person who took care of Jahi. jmo