Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #4

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  • #561
I agree completely. If the hospital is using computer charting it will be near impossible to "fix" things. I believe CHO wanted her off the vent and out the door ASAP. BTW did you know that a hospital can charge family whatever per page for copies of medical record. Years ago, at one hospital where I worked, charge was $10.00 per page and partial record not allowed.

Here's the Cali code section which provides for $.25 per copy page and $.50 per page from microfilm and the like. Also, their attorney can subpoena the records or get them in discovery at the rates the court rules allow, which is usually $.10 per page for regular copies.

(a) Notwithstanding Section 5328 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code, and except as provided in Sections 123115 and
123120, any adult patient of a health care provider, any minor
patient authorized by law to consent to medical treatment, and any
patient representative shall be entitled to inspect patient records
upon presenting to the health care provider a written request for
those records and upon payment of reasonable clerical costs incurred
in locating and making the records available. However, a patient who
is a minor shall be entitled to inspect patient records pertaining
only to health care of a type for which the minor is lawfully
authorized to consent. A health care provider shall permit this
inspection during business hours within five working days after
receipt of the written request. The inspection shall be conducted by
the patient or patient's representative requesting the inspection,
who may be accompanied by one other person of his or her choosing.
(b) Additionally, any patient or patient's representative shall be
entitled to copies of all or any portion of the patient records that
he or she has a right to inspect, upon presenting a written request
to the health care provider specifying the records to be copied,
together with a fee to defray the cost of copying, that shall not
exceed twenty-five cents ($0.25) per page or fifty cents ($0.50) per
page for records that are copied from microfilm and any additional
reasonable clerical costs incurred in making the records available
.
The health care provider shall ensure that the copies are transmitted
within 15 days after receiving the written request.



http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=hsc&group=123001-124000&file=123100-123149.5
 
  • #562
AFAIK, the uncle posted on his instagram that he was in Cabo.
 
  • #563
And I've personally witnessed in nursing homes in Calif. nurses changing their notes and backdating them to cover their tracks for situations that shouldn't have happened and were their fault! I did report them to DHS!!!

The inpatient operations seem to have transferred to an electronic medical records system so if it was used in the PICU it likely wouldn't be possible to backdate things without leaving an electronic imprint that you did so. In the system we use, they can run a person's medical records and get a list of everybody who accessed the file and who wrote or deleted something and at what time.

http://m.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2013/11/childrens-oakland-89m-emr.html?r=full

This system went live on Nov 5. 2013 so it was rather new and it's possible that some of the staff was still struggling with using it. It's apparently not yet in uniform use across the whole hospital so it may be a pain in the backside for the staff when some info is online and some is on a paper form somewhere.
 
  • #564
AFAIK, the uncle posted on his instagram that he was in Cabo. So that's another lie.
Who cares where the uncle was while the surgery was performed? How is that relevant in the least???
He's not at fault. In my firm Opinion, Children's is!
 
  • #565
Any comment made to the public concerning the patient is a breach of privacy. That does not include comments to the court. No public comments whatsoever. This does not include the mother, family or their attorney since they are not bound by health privacy laws.

Respectfully, you are not correct

HIPAA: Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act


The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 Privacy, Security and Breach Notification Rules
for those who want to know more
 
  • #566
Who cares where the uncle was while the surgery was performed? How is that relevant in the least???
He's not at fault. In my firm Opinion, Children's is!

Based on what evidence? At this point we have no evidence that points to the hospital being at fault.
 
  • #567
Based on what evidence?
Neglect of her Post-Op care when she started bleeding. At this time this is my opinion. I believe it will be backed up by the investigations of DHS and JCAHO and the eventual malpractice/wrongful death lawsuits.:twocents:
 
  • #568
I'm very happy to hear this! Get her OUT of Children's!!!

Jahi's family has had the green light for days . . . so I don't know why the family has not transferred her body out of CHO
 
  • #569
The lawyer has complained that the hospital refers to the patient as the deceased; that the hospital is not personalizing the patient by using her name. Next, he complains that the hospital is releasing information about the deceased. It seems like a bit of a no-win situation with the lawyer. If the hospital uses her name, the lawyer claims violation of privacy, if the hospital doesn't use her name, the lawyer claims that the facility is unfeeling.

This family has interfered with the hospital with protests. The family has an agenda and the intention is to force the hospital to do what they want regardless of whether it benefits anyone. How can the hospital ensure that the rights of all patients and staff are respected, and allow that to happen? Should the world stop and everyone become a second class citizen because the family of a deceased child refuses to do what is normal and bury her?

Children die in hospitals every day, even when the best medical teams are doing their best to keep the child alive. The surgeries that this child had have a risk of death due to bleeding. This child was not healthy, the surgeries were not routine, and the family has admitted to interfering with post-operative care. This case is the 1/15,000 children, of 530,000 tonsillectomy surgeries performed on children under the age of 15 in the US, that die each year. The family knew the risks prior to the surgery and they accepted those risks.

It's been a month. How much time should a family be given to understand that the deceased child stopped breathing a month ago and will never breath again?

I guess my main reason for posting was seeing Jahi referred to as 'the body'. Machine or not, as long as she is breathing and has a heartbeat, she is a person. And they are being insensitive to the family by saying 'the body'.

I do think they should unplug her as some point, but I think they really just need time to understand - at least the mom. There is no evidence that this is true - just my hunch. As a psychologist and a former Patient Representative as a hospital, I've seen folks have very hard times letting go of loved ones. I wheeled a woman to the morgue once and sat with her as she cried and hugged her husband's body. I had a friend who was brain dead and visited her the day before they unplugged her from the machines. I held her hand, stroked her arm, told her how much I loved her, how she had been a second mom. Her husband was very shaken up and didn't know what to do. It was her friend who sat with him and helped him keep a level head and decide to pull the plug. And then it was over in a minutes. It was the right thing to do, but even as a highly-educated very practical person, he couldn't think straight through his grief.

I think this mom is having a hard time herself, letting her daughter go. I think she's hoping for a miracle. It's not going to happen, but my heart says to give her a little more time. Yes, it's been a month, but this started just days after the surgery--- the fight between the family and the hospital. And I think the legal fight has delayed the stages of grief.

It's okay if we disagree. I just think until the plug has been pulled, she shouldn't be called 'the body'. ;)

(ETA - I think if there had not been a legal fight, then the family may be allowed the plug to be pulled early. Of course we don't know - there's no way to know. It's just what I think. I agree much about this case is that gray area of what is ethical to do in such a situation. But at least stop calling her 'the body'.)
 
  • #570
Only by court order, or they would've disconnected her long ago by their choice!! Why can Jahi be allowed to live out the rest of her life, however long that is, elsewhere- even if Vents and G-tubes are required??? Her mother has assumed full responsibility. Children's is in CYA mode in my opinion.

How can a legally dead person be living "the rest of her life?"
She is legall dead.
A death certificate has been issued for her.
 
  • #571
Neglect of her Post-Op care when she started bleeding. At this time this is my opinion. I believe it will be backed up by the investigations of DHS and JCAHO and the eventual malpractice/wrongful death lawsuits.:twocents:

We don't know that to be true, that's just what the family says.
 
  • #572
Didn't watch this before though maybe most did.

Take note 5.11 the mother says Jahi is like a really big "asset" to the family.

Yes, that is what most heartbroken mothers would say about the death of their child.....their child was a really big "asset" to the family.


[video=youtube;tYoq4tjaE7c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYoq4tjaE7c[/video]

Honestly that video was worse than everything I have read to date. Way worse than I could have imagined and my imagination is pretty extreme.
 
  • #573
How can a legally dead person be living "the rest of her life?"
She is legall dead.
A death certificate has been issued for her.
Her heart still beats, her body is not decomposing. The family believes there is a chance she will spontaneously recover, and I support them.
And until that point, she should not be referred to as "a body"!!
 
  • #574
It was reported that she received four blood transfusions so at some point the staff certainly got very worried.

The family also said that the bleeding continued for a couple of hours. I find it very hard to believe that a patient in ICU would be ignored for hours.

Brb, have to find link.

Please click here to see my previous post about the timeline:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

Link:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4485119

Nailah Winkfield says Jahi was bleeding profusely for hours in the above article. Also remember that at some stage Nailah blacked out and was admitted as a patient, so was not present.
 
  • #575
  • #576
What bothers me on a general level is at what point does the family get to make decisions for their loved ones?

Someone suffering endlessly may wish to die and even say as much, but assisted suicide or helping them die sooner rather than later is illegal.

Yet when a family wishes to keep their loved one alive, the legal boundaries get blurred and then the hospital often wins, pulling the plug.

It can't be both ways, folks. Either we allow the gov't into our lives and give them control, or we believe more in the rights of the family/individual, even if that means others will make decisions that we disagree with. Because they will. Like with Jahi.
 
  • #577
1. Jahi is not a corpse- her heart still beats.
2. What's the harm in letting Jahi live out the rest of her natural life???
3. No answer.
4. I think Children's letting her go is a win for the family because then Children's can't pull the plug on her. Children's has already lost in bad PR and future malpractice/wrongful death lawsuits.:twocents:
These are my opinions, and I worked in the medical industry for 13 years in hospitals, nursing homes, and home health.

She is legally dead under CA law. Because her brain is dead. Coroner issued a death certificate.
Considering she is legally dead, how could she possibly be living out the rest of her natural life?
Children's can pull a plug on her if family doesn't transfer her out on Tuesday as they promised. Unless they manage to get another extension.
 
  • #578
In this raw interview with mom an,d I think, the uncle, he goes on about $$$$. It's quite disgusting. Poor mom. JMO

http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/mcmath-vigil-raw-video-of-jahi-mcmaths-mothers/vCLZHH/

Wow! That's an eye opener. The uncle said that this is all about going for a 30 million dollar lawsuit versus a $250,000 award ("chump change" per the uncle). I guess there's no question about why this is dragging on. I get the impression that the family believes that the longer they can drag it out, the better their chances of getting the $30 million.

http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/mcmath-vigil-raw-video-of-jahi-mcmaths-mothers/vCLZHH/
 
  • #579
Last night/early this morning I posted a case that went to court where the parent was fighting the hospital to remove support. The circumstances were entirely different, what I want to point out is the procedures are clearly defined in this law in Texas.

Advance Directives Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please understand I am not comparing this law to what is happening with Jahi. I am bringing up the discussion that in CA and other states, it is the legal right of the hospital to remove support when brain death is declared. It is not the families decision to make. It is then left up to the hospital on how much time, the hospital allows for gathering of family members before support is removed. From all hospital procedures that I have read in different states, it is recommended that support is removed within a few days. This hospital was gracious enough, to allow the family more time and allow for multiple opinions. It is important IMO, to point out that this is not typically offered to other families in the same situation.

Then walks in Dolan....who starts the court process and delays. The court IMO, had no obligation to grant any delays because of how the law is stated. Due to the circumstances of this case though, they did and in fact ordered a top expert in the country to come in and confirm that Jahi is brain dead. The court acknowledged that Jahi is deceased by all legal and medical criteria. The court gave time and cleared the way for the family to relocate Jahi. The attorney for the family has repeatedly lied by stating that there are doctors and facilities, etc., that will do these procedures and take Jahi. The attorney has not produced as of yet, to back up his statements.

Which brings me to my point of discussion. The high media attention that this case has received IMO, will create more cases like it across the country by those that don't understand or are not willing to accept brain death, or don't consider brain death, death.

Therefore, this calls for further established criteria to be placed into law, similar to what Texas law has done in instances where "futile care" are concerned.

IMO, it is necessary to revise the laws and specify exact procedure to follow, as far as amount of time that is allocated, prior to removal of ventilator support in brain dead patients. If it is going to be entertained by the courts that families have a right to transfer brain dead relatives to other locations, where they can be kept on support, then there needs to be a clearly defined time period in which families have to make these arrangements. A hospital should not be required to keep these patients in ICU during this time period.

Most cases presented, where families have removed brain dead relatives from hospitals, have been cared for in the home setting. There are no facilities that take these patients because insurance does not cover care for the deceased. So financial costs in caring for family members on support, are the responsibility of family with the help of charity.
 
  • #580
Her heart still beats, her body is not decomposing. The family believes there is a chance she will spontaneously recover, and I support them.
And until that point, she should not be referred to as "a body"!!

The only reason the heart is beating is because ventillator is pumping oxygen into it.
 
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