Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[nursebeeme]

It will be decided by a jury if the family elects to go to trial.
Unless the hospital offers a settlement that acceptable to the family.
IMO


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Jury? Bit premature imhoo.

 

[otto]

I am glad you had a choice and I'm thrilled your choice was the correct one.




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I'm sure that the three surgeries that were performed on the patient were necessary, but the parents had to make the decision - a choice. We don't know what happened after she was transferred to the ICU. As soon as I read that several family members were in ICU, that they were treating the patient with a suction tube, and that they were feeding her (popsicle), I had the impression that this may have played a role in the tragic outcome. What happened with the patient in ICU, prior to the excessive bleeding, does not sound normal. I have the impression that the family did not understand that critical patients are in intensive care, and that not all critical patients in intensive care emerge alive.

Additionally, I never believed that I received the same child from surgery that was delivered to surgery. There were cognitive differences, but that's life. It's all good in the long run.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Im just going to day it simply as a person who assisted physicians assessing brain dead patients....ALL brain dead means is LACK or deficient Brain electrical activity...So If you dont wish to believe LACK of Oxygen causes Brain damage FIne..BUT it does...from my experience..Take it for what its worth...

The only reason Jahi suffered that lack of Oxygen is because ICU staff werent monitoring nor assisting her..left her family to deal with her bleed out..Sudden Blood loss..does cause such injuries...

Unless you have some sort of link to suggest any difference..i will agree to disagree on your premise..:seeya:

She is BRAIN DEAD. READ all threads about her here on WS. Not providing links yet are you?

 

[Leilei]

The most recent picture of her hand really threw me. That much change since the last picture, when she had the pink nail polish...

Could some of the discoloration be caused from using nail polish remover?

 

[Linda7NJ]

HUH? People have elective surgeries ALL THE TIME in hopes of "curing" them for whatever the ailment they have (real or not). There are also people who believe that surgeries will benefit them even when doctors tell them repeatedly that no surgery will "fix" their issue.

I'm speaking about this specific surgery.
It's the exact same surgery my husband had for sleep apnea. He had it because he was told it was extremely dangerous not to and this surgery would correct the problem.

My husband had this surgery as an outpatient. He had severe asthma and had been overweight at the time. He was actually actively dieting and had lost 24 pounds.

I wanted him to lose what he needed to and see if that would fix it. The doctor convinced him he needed the surgery sooner than later.


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[otto]

That was not my question, if the amount of meds in the bag seen in this picture at this link is a 'boatload', if she was that unhealthy, why was she cleared?

photo of meds at this link: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-ja...nsil-surgery-court-appointed-doctor-confirms/

post I was responding to: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

Healthy children don't need surgery. The child was very overweight. Isn't it possible that this weight problem contributed to the apnea? It would have been much better if the child reduced her weight prior to the surgery, but what if her weight was going up while she was being tested and monitored for the sleep apnea?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Why is anyone under the impression that Jahi was not returned to the OR when she started bleeding? Truth is we do not know what happened or where she died OR/picu. jmo

According to her grandmothers reports she witnessed jahi in cardiac arrest and the measure taken to revive her.


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[K_Z]

There is no reason in the world anyone would elect to have this surgery unless they believed it would solve their sleep apnea issue. They wouldn't believe it would benefit them unless a doctor told them so.

Iirc I read this mother got a second opinion after the first recommended this surgery. Her mother brought her to this hospital. A well known and respected children's hospital.




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Important distinction between "solve" and "benefit", respectfully. The vey fact that mom did get a second opinion demonstrates that a discussion of risks and benefits was under way. Jahi's records will reflect the depth of her preop interdisciplinary evaluation, and how much time was spent in consultation with her mom. I think surgeons have to document that now-- every preop I read has the number of minutes spent in consultation during the preop visit.

That is why preop holding area conversations can be brief-- they talked extensively in the office visit. Many surgeons (and insurance companies!) feel that THAT visit is the consent discussion-- the signing of the consent form is a formality that reflects the totality of their discussions, not just the few minutes in the holding room preceding the form being signed.

 

[CHERIE.T]

It seems these could be triggers for you--so read at your own risk--but the documents you need to read are the following:

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/Fisher+-+Redacted+Rpt_1.pdf
(Dr. Paul G. Fisher's handwritten report for his court-mandated examination on 12/23/13)

and

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/HeidiFlori.pdf
(Dr. Heidi Flori's report as of current condition of the body as of 1/3/14, I believe).

These two reports alone leave no doubt as to the condition of Jahi McMath.

Thank you...... Bumping

 

[Herding Cats]

And how sad am I that this is STILL going on? That even today, there are surgeries being reported that have been done?

How sad am I? <<<<<- I have no words.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Isabelle]

Wow. Whoa. Is the pallor noted from her fingernail to her finger joint from impaired circulation or is it the lighting?

I think that is pallor and not lighting. It also looks as if there is wrinkling of the skin, kind of like seen when a wet bandaid is removed. She was on vasopressin. Could the pallor be a symptom of requiring high dose vasopressin? Thanks

 

[CHERIE.T]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/06/health/brain-dead-basics/

Why brain dead means really dead

(CNN) -- A person who is brain dead may appear alive -- there may be a heartbeat, they may look like they're breathing, their skin may still be warm to the touch.
But doctors say there is no life when brain activity ceases.


It's not complicated! 6 doctors declared her brain dead...SIX!

Ditto!

 

[otto]

Important distinction between "solve" and "benefit", respectfully. The vey fact that mom did get a second opinion demonstrates that a discussion of risks and benefits was under way. Jahi's records will reflect the depth of her preop interdisciplinary evaluation, and how much time was spent in consultation with her mom. I think surgeons have to document that now-- every preop I read has the number of minutes spent in consultation during the preop visit.

That is why preop holding area conversations can be brief-- they talked extensively in the office visit. Many surgeons (and insurance companies!) feel that THAT visit is the consent discussion-- the signing of the consent form is a formality that reflects the totality of their discussions, not just the few minutes in the holding room preceding the form being signed.

In the forms I've signed, I always ask about the risk of death. It's always stated that death is one of the risks of surgery, and I can't imagine anyone glossing over that statement unless they view legally binding consent forms as an inconvenient, necessary formality to get done before getting on with things.

 

[vlpate]

The most recent picture of her hand really threw me. That much change since the last picture, when she had the pink nail polish...

Could some of the discoloration be caused from using nail polish remover?

Please, where are these photos?

 

[J1981]

Why is anyone under the impression that Jahi was not returned to the OR when she started bleeding? Truth is we do not know what happened or where she died OR/picu. jmo

This is true. We don't know.

I presume we all hope she was taken back to the OR.

I was just thinking, the reason we don't know if she was taken back to the OR or not is because the family hasn't commented on that. We have heard commentary about blood, spitting, buckets, Popsicles, calling for help, etc. Etc. But nothing about the OR. So some assume she was not taken back there and died in picu. *if this is the (seemingly) ONE piece of information regarding post-op that the family is NOT sharing, that's simply not fair to CHO and the doctors/nurses*.

Hope that makes sense. IMO!

 

[otto]

Please, where are these photos?

This is the most recent photo, but I don't have the link anymore. I used snagit so I could have a better look at what is going on with the skin. It's on a twitter account that was linked upthread ... if anyone has the link handy? I don't remember the date, but I understand that it is a photo of the sister holding the patient's hand.

I'd like to see the earlier photo. That must be from when she was smiling at the time she was admitted?
I wonder, if she is deceased, would her index finger bend back like that? It looks like a strange bend/angle to me. When I first looked at the photo, I wondered that happened to the rest of the finger.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Im just going to day it simply as a person who assisted physicians assessing brain dead patients....ALL brain dead means is LACK or deficient Brain electrical activity...So If you dont wish to believe LACK of Oxygen causes Brain damage FIne..BUT it does...from my experience..Take it for what its worth...

The only reason Jahi suffered that lack of Oxygen is because ICU staff werent monitoring nor assisting her..left her family to deal with her bleed out..Sudden Blood loss..does cause such injuries...

Unless you have some sort of link to suggest any difference..i will agree to disagree on your premise..:seeya:

RBBM -- Considering your experience in medicine ( I assume unverified with WS at this time) you must know that catastrophic bleeding can occur especially after the procedures Jahi endured? You must know that sometimes these things happen and despite every best effort and attempt by staff that sometimes patients are lost? You must know that sometimes the bleeding can be so severe, even if Jahi had a nurse sitting right next to her she still might not have been able to be saved?

We don't know what happened in that room. These unfortunate things sometime happen. People, including children, die everyday. It's the one constant in this world.

 

[katydid23]

According to her grandmothers reports she witnessed jahi in cardiac arrest and the measure taken to revive her.


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But they could have been treating her for the bleeding at the time of the cardiac arrest. No matter where she was at the time. Maybe they gave her some medication and it did not have time to work before the heart attack.

From seeing the huge bag of meds that she was apparently taking, it leads me to believe that it might have been a complicated issue. If she had other underlying medical problems then things can be unpredictable and go sideways, fast.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Please, where are these photos?

My ambien is kicking in, sorry, but they are just a few pages back.


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[Leilei]

Please, where are these photos?

Otto just reposted it, but it was linked a few pages back :seeya: