Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

[ItsJustaName]

Yup it is ALL about money EXCEPT the procurement of the most vital and needed resource -- the organs themselves. To suggest that the deceased persons estate should receive any type of payment is UNETHICAL! EVIL! UNTHINKABLE! Everyone ELSE involved should be paid and paid well, but not the family/person that is ultimately providing the organs.

They want your organs (and those of your family) for FREE and they will do everything in their power to get you to hand them over at no cost however if you need one there will be a high price to pay. Personally if my loved ones could benefit financially from my organs after death I would be all for it, but since "they" say that would be unethical then of course it must be true. Uh huh.

My experience with organ procurement employees was that they can be absolutely heartless. When one of my parents died at 1am we were told that we had to wait in a room to sign some paperwork before we could leave. My parent had been in hospice care at the hospital. After an hour a bumbling guy came in and after some stupid pleasantries "How ar eyou doing?" "Well, my husband just died so not too well", he started asking about organ donation. My father had been dead for an hour and there was nothing that could have been of use (heart bypass, stroke, kidney failure, cornea surgery).

When we complained to the hospital we were told that it was procedure to to not let the next of kin leave the hospital without asking for organ donation. Even if the patient died of HIV. It didn't matter. The organ procurement was more important that an 70 year old woman that had just lost her husband going home before 2am. The next time I renewed my drivers licence I took off the organ donor status and the clerk did try to give me a hard time. "Do you have a problem with my personal decisions?. Should we get your manager here to join the discussion?" did finally shut her up. BTW I had been am organ donor for my entire driving history prior to this time.

Its not just about the money. Some states have policies (in this case they claimed it was state law that they had to ask) that place the potential of getting any type of organ far above the feelings of the deceased family. Until that changes I'm out.

 

[Isabelle]

Here is a cost breakdown from the Transplant Living site"

http://transplantliving.org/before-the-transplant/financing-a-transplant/the-costs/

ETA: detailed breakdown of donors vs recipients

http://www.pnhp.org/organ_donors/Transplants.pdf

 

[Herding Cats]

While I understand that organ donation is a factor in some cases, I don't believe that it is in Jahi's case. Can we either make a new thread for the organ donation (as I believe there are things which should indeed be discussed), or at least stop posting in this thread about that?

From everything I've ever read, organ donation has NOT BEEN a consideration with Jahi, and I don't believe it should be introduced as if it had been or is.

(I'm no mod, so this is just a request from a fellow WSer...)

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Isabelle]

BBM
(Quoted)
What about what Dr. Flori said in her report?

“She has not had evidence of bowel functioning (sounds) for weeks. Yesterday (January 2), she passed some stool that was clinically consistent with defecation of the tissues lining the bowel (i.e., her body is sloughing her gut).“

Is the "sloughing of the gut" not considered decomposing? Please explain.(Quote)
_-------------------_----
From me:
I certainly thought that is what it meant. :/


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Yes it could be. It could also be the result of hypoxia during cardiac arrest.

 

[ItsJustaName]

While I understand that organ donation is a factor in some cases, I don't believe that it is in Jahi's case. Can we either make a new thread for the organ donation (as I believe there are things which should indeed be discussed), or at least stop posting in this thread about that?

From everything I've ever read, organ donation has NOT BEEN a consideration with Jahi, and I don't believe it should be introduced as if it had been or is.

(I'm no mod, so this is just a request from a fellow WSer...)

Best-
Herding Cats

Jahi's mother brought the issue of organ donation into the discussion:

'I don’t believe what the hospital are saying,' said Mrs Winkfield.
'If she was an organ donor she would have everything to make her body healthy,' she said.
'In fact she would have much better treatment if she was an organ donor but since I want her to live she doesn’t have proper treatment.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ments-woke-routine-surgery.html#ixzz2q0mGBN6q
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Isabelle]

I'm not in a health care profession, but wouldn't they have been able to determine the source of the bleeding before she was declared brain dead? If they were able to stop it, they must have been able to determine the source.

The bleeding most likely stopped at the time cardiac arrest occurred. There is no blood pressure, so there is no movement of blood through the vascular system. Then with all of the bleeding, even after resuscitation, there is a little menace called DIC (disseminated intravascular coagulation) where the body uses all of the clotting factors and mechanisms up and there are no more to stop bleeding. A patient can be seen to bleed profusely around IV lines and can also bleed from previous injection/IV attempt sites. This is a major disaster!

 

[Herat]

Yup it is ALL about money EXCEPT the procurement of the most vital and needed resource -- the organs themselves. To suggest that the deceased persons estate should receive any type of payment is UNETHICAL! EVIL! UNTHINKABLE! Everyone ELSE involved should be paid and paid well, but not the family/person that is ultimately providing the organs.

They want your organs (and those of your family) for FREE and they will do everything in their power to get you to hand them over at no cost however if you need one there will be a high price to pay. Personally if my loved ones could benefit financially from my organs after death I would be all for it, but since "they" say that would be unethical then of course it must be true. Uh huh.

This case has never about organ donation. The mother seems to be incensed that she was approached about organ donation. However, the hospital is required to do so.

State laws and JCHO Standards require that hosptials have agreements with organ procurement organizations, basically to assure that whatever is done is done with appropriate informed consent and organ harvest quality standards. The require the hospital approach the families of those who are close to death and discuss organ donation.

There is never any compensation to the family for organ donation.

I think you need to do a bit more research as your fears are unfounded.

 

[ItsJustaName]

Dr. Byrne also claims that CHO was/is plotting to get Jahi's organs:

Declaring someone ‘brain dead’ to harvest organs is always to the detriment of the patient, Byrne explained. “No one can recover once they’ve had their beating heart and other organs cut out.”

“If doctors can, they will take this young girl’s organs.”

 

[Herat]

Jahi's mother brought the issue of organ donation into the discussion:

'I don’t believe what the hospital are saying,' said Mrs Winkfield.
'If she was an organ donor she would have everything to make her body healthy,' she said.
'In fact she would have much better treatment if she was an organ donor but since I want her to live she doesn’t have proper treatment.'

She was approached because there are state laws and JCHO standards that require the hospital approach suitable donor's families.

Her logic is entirely faulty and suited to her overall displeasure with CHO, but she is entitled to her opinion.

 

[Herat]

Dr. Byrne also claims that CHO was/is plotting to get Jahi's organs:

Declaring someone ‘brain dead’ to harvest organs is always to the detriment of the patient, Byrne explained. “No one can recover once they’ve had their beating heart and other organs cut out.”

“If doctors can, they will take this young girl’s organs.”

Again, this guy doesn't have factual information on the organ donor program.

More self-serving sensationalism.

 

[Kimster]

While I understand that organ donation is a factor in some cases, I don't believe that it is in Jahi's case. Can we either make a new thread for the organ donation (as I believe there are things which should indeed be discussed), or at least stop posting in this thread about that?

From everything I've ever read, organ donation has NOT BEEN a consideration with Jahi, and I don't believe it should be introduced as if it had been or is.

(I'm no mod, so this is just a request from a fellow WSer...)

Best-
Herding Cats

Sounds like an interesting topic for the Jury Room.

 

[ItsJustaName]

She was approached because there are state laws and JCHO standards that require the hospital approach suitable donor's families.

Her logic is entirely faulty and suited to her overall displeasure with CHO, but she is entitled to her opinion.

I agree that her logic is faulty. But those laws that would require the hospital to approach a mother so deeply in denial about her daughters death are heartless. I know from personal experience that they make to family feel worse. Hospitals should be able to use discretion in approaching families rather than being required to ask every family.

 

[ItsJustaName]

Again, this guy doesn't have factual information on the organ donor program.

More self-serving sensationalism.

I agree. It serves his purposes though, even if its false. I wonder if he really believes what he is saying?

 

[Herat]

My experience with organ procurement employees was that they can be absolutely heartless. When one of my parents died at 1am we were told that we had to wait in a room to sign some paperwork before we could leave. My parent had been in hospice care at the hospital. After an hour a bumbling guy came in and after some stupid pleasantries "How ar eyou doing?" "Well, my husband just died so not too well", he started asking about organ donation. My father had been dead for an hour and there was nothing that could have been of use (heart bypass, stroke, kidney failure, cornea surgery).

When we complained to the hospital we were told that it was procedure to to not let the next of kin leave the hospital without asking for organ donation. Even if the patient died of HIV. It didn't matter. The organ procurement was more important that an 70 year old woman that had just lost her husband going home before 2am. The next time I renewed my drivers licence I took off the organ donor status and the clerk did try to give me a hard time. "Do you have a problem with my personal decisions?. Should we get your manager here to join the discussion?" did finally shut her up. BTW I had been am organ donor for my entire driving history prior to this time.

Its not just about the money. Some states have policies (in this case they claimed it was state law that they had to ask) that place the potential of getting any type of organ far above the feelings of the deceased family. Until that changes I'm out.

It IS STATE LAW that they have to ask.

I'm sorry you perceived this so negatively, but you have subtantial misinformation.

 

[ItsJustaName]

It IS STATE LAW that they have to ask.

I'm sorry you perceived this so negatively, but you have subtantial misinformation.

Could you please tell me how I was misinformed about my father's death?

 

[ItsJustaName]

It IS STATE LAW that they have to ask.

I'm sorry you perceived this so negatively, but you have subtantial misinformation.

double post sorry

 

[meanmaryjean]

I agree that her logic is faulty. But those laws that would require the hospital to approach a mother so deeply in denial about her daughters death are heartless. I know from personal experience that they make to family feel worse. Hospitals should be able to use discretion in approaching families rather than being required to ask every family.

BBM: AMEN!!!!!! We are smart enough to compare our patient's condition to a list of exclusion criteria. But nooooooo.......

Instead of allowing a physician or nurse who has a caring relationship with the family ask these delicate questions - the law is written so that a total stranger does it. And while i will say there are some wonderful people in the fiedl of organ procurement- I have had more than a few VERY unpleasant experiences with some.

 

[Kimster]

It IS STATE LAW that they have to ask.

I'm sorry you perceived this so negatively, but you have subtantial misinformation.

In order for this to be stated as fact, we need a link. :tyou:

 

[IrishMom]

I have one last question, if you all would be so kind as to indulge me and then I promise I'll not bother you anymore. IF anything done in the ICU by the family caused the massive bleeding, which I am thinking lead to the cardiac failure (and I'm specifically thinking about the suctioning that they have publicly stated that they did), if proven, would or could they be held criminally responsible for the child's death? Have you ever heard of any case such as that? And I do mean actions that were not INTENTIONALLY meant to cause harm to the family member, unlike the Munchausen syndrome cases.

 

[Herding Cats]

Jahi's mother brought the issue of organ donation into the discussion:

'I don’t believe what the hospital are saying,' said Mrs Winkfield.
'If she was an organ donor she would have everything to make her body healthy,' she said.
'In fact she would have much better treatment if she was an organ donor but since I want her to live she doesn’t have proper treatment.'

Thank you for the correction, It'sjustaname.

Still, I don't believe that organ donation, or at least the financial aspect should be discussed here. I don't think that the hospital approached NW for organ donation, nor was organ donation something that was considered before the surgery. So, to me at least, the full on discussion of the financial aspects, and/or the pressures put on the family, does not have a place in Jahi's thread.

And let me state again - I do believe that this is a topic worthy of it's own thread, and should be discussed in depth...passions run deep on all sides of the subject. I just don't believe that it has a viable place in Jahi's threads, you know?

And again, I'm not a mod, and I'll continue to skip the posts as they appear...but I do think this is a good discussion to have. Maybe just not here, as I believe it unnecessarily muddies the waters a tad. And the waters are already very muddled, you know?

Best-
Herding Cats