Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

[MsSeal]

I would like to comment on the bedwetting.

I do reports on older kids who are still wetting the bed. Many factors contribute. It is a stress for the family especially because Pullups at a certain point do not contain all the urine nor do adult diapers so moms (and fathers also if they take part) are constantly changing sheets and doing laundry. To me Jahi looked like she needed adult diapers and they are very expensive compared to Pullups so there is the financial consideration. Bedclothes become soaked as well and changing and laundering sheets and mattress protectors every day can be tiresome. Sheets are expensive and a child who soaks the bed every night is going to need plenty. Often times the sheets have to be changed a couple of times during the night for bigger kids who have large volumes. Mothers become frustrated and want something done.

I don't what else they tried for Jahi. There are bedwetting alarms to get them up, restricting fluids and medication they can take but it does not always solve the problem. If the docs felt that her bedwetting was caused by the sleep apnea then fixing the sleep apnea would be "fixing" the problem. Imagine if every time you woke your bed was soaked in urine. It would be so frustrating. It is truly uncomfortable and can be a source of shame for older kids.

I know Jahi had other problems and I can see where her NW would have thought that this surgery was the cure for all her problems and Jahi would have a better quality of life.

 

[SwampMama]

Here is a follow up he did on the horrible reporting in the media of these cases.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/back-from-the-dead/

O/T to Jahi but right in line with astounding ignorance in reporting on medical cases which is whole heartedly believed by those looking for miracles...
That link led me this link from 2008 : http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/05/23/woman-wakes-after-heart-stopped-rigor-mortis-set-in/ :facepalm:

It reported that a woman who had rigor mortis came back to life. Yep, rigor mortis. Unbelievable.

 

[meme4]

Seems these journalists are hell bent on finding someone who survived brain death. You would be amazed at all the folks on the facebook pages(and there are several) who miraculously survived brain death......

 

[ItsJustaName]

from the article Donjeta linked for those wondering how old her sister is (or the other sibs). Says they all attend(ed) this school.


Jahi has been part of the school's “extended” family for more than a decade. Jahi’s older sister, JM, now 20, graduated in 2009 as valedictorian. Her brother, JL, is now in fourth grade at the school. Jahi's younger sister, JJ, is in kindergarten.

These are just the mother's other children. There are also half siblings on the fathers side and stepsiblings. I hope they are all getting counseling.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I had trouble falling asleep last night, so I got back online to try and educate myself about the Consumer Watchdog group that is using Jahi's name for their agenda. It's called The Troy and Alana Pack Patient Safety Act. It stems from two children that died because of a motorist, apparently, intoxicated on prescription drugs.

It calls for doctors prescribing controlled substances to check a data base prior to writing prescriptions to make sure that patients are not doctor shopping for drugs. Supposedly, this will help stop people from popping large amounts of pills and getting behind the wheel and driving. It will also hold doctors accountable, if they do and the doctor failed to check the database before prescribing the drugs. Also, it is suppose to help prevent people from causing harm to themselves, from popping large amounts of prescription drugs.

It also calls for drug testing for physicians, in an effort to lower the rates of medical errors by medical professionals that are under the influence.

Written into the language is also what has been brought up in the media about raising the amount awarded in CA for medical malpractice.

IMO, the entire thing is so loosely written, that it leaves a lot of things open for interpretation. It's definitely not clear cut. Further reading brought me to some IMO, very questionable statistics on those that are addicted to prescription drugs and the cost savings that would be seen as it pertains to medical care of addicts and those that are harmed by addicts of prescription drugs due to doctor shopping.

Anyway, I am not a supporter of this initiative as it is written.

I thought I would share a little bit about what I have learned and if anyone wants to learn more they can google it.

I've got a clearer picture, of why the media and SM is so outspoken and crazy. There are a lot of different "groups" that are using this to further their agenda. I keep finding more and more all the time. Oh and I can't forget the ambulance chasers.

I am beyond disgusted by the using of this tragedy with this young girl.

Here is a article that takes the cake of them all. Upon doing further research of the author, it appears that this is one that falls into the category of not liking anything to do with conventional medicine or government. Yet another group of outspoken individuals that have climbed on board.

I wouldn't be surprised to see, that "a lot" of these outspoken players that I've witnessed with this tragedy cross paths.

http://www.naturalnews.com/043406_Oakland_Childrens_Hospital_brain_dead_girl_tonsil_surgery.html#

(I apologize for any grammatical errors in my post, etc. I had to buy a new laptop today and everything is so different. It took me forever to write this.)

 

[CHERIE.T]

The younger brother says "She would do everything for me. She would make my plate, wash my clothes, without her there it is just not the same".

Sorry but that kid is like 10 or so. One would think their MOTHER would make their plate and wash their clothes. That statement was coached to an extreme. A kid that age would NOT come up with something like that regarding the death or serious illness of their own sister! He would say typical kid stuff, stuff like he misses her, they have fun together etc... He would NOT start pointing out how "useful" she was in a practical sense regarding meals and laundry!

Exactly what I thought when I read the brother's comments.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Seems these journalists are hell bent on finding someone who survived brain death. You would be amazed at all the folks on the facebook pages(and there are several) who miraculously survived brain death......

The stories are IMO, a combination of bad reporting, deliberately altered and withholding of fact due to an agenda, or entirely made up, due to an agenda.

IMO, if people have to mislead or lie, to persuade the political vote because they want to force their beliefs, then there's a problem.

 

[ladonna]

Look at the comment on the fundme page by NG 21 hrs ago. My gosh.

You've been great with links, one I follow a lot, can you post a link to this please?

 

[ArianeEmory]

I know there is misinformation, spin, superstition and plain old wrongheadedness in the media and on Facebook every day. This one is REALLY bothering me. Confusing everyday people about death has the potential to do so much more damage than your average conspiracy theory or urban legend.

This is an outrage, and I have never typed those words before in my life.

 

[Nore]

Personally, I've come back from O.R. twice with blood transfusions going. The first was when I was 19, and the surgeon nicked an artery during a minor procedure which wasn't evident until they were moving me from O.R. to PACU stretcher and I was lying in a pool of my own blood..

The second time, a few years later and under much different circumstances, with 2 units transfusing simultaneously via pressure pumps. The reason being that I hemorrhaged prior to surgery with no time to transfuse before emergency surgery, and also extensive blood loss during surgery ( placental abruption, which was also the prolonged ventilator experience. ) Oh, and they drew labs for a DIC Profile on me for 4 days post- op. Hospital was a level one trauma center with a children's specialty hospital as well.. They were prepared, I was just in the midst of a surgical emergency.

<modsnip>

I hope this was a misstatement and that she did not experience DIC. I don't know whether we will ever find out for 100% certainty.
Thanks for reading.

---------
Seeking Jana, you have helped me. Thank you. I had a colitis bleed, 3pints wondered how bad it actually was. Also had placenta abruptus 2 pints. I feel like I now know!!
:loveyou:

 

[Nore]

I've been reading EVERYTHING and found this video that makes a great point, imo. Its not easy to watch but it def. made me 'think' more. Since i think WS is a great learning site and has made open my eyes and change my mind on a few things over the years. Just thought i'd share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I1RBiDKDbA

edit to add: I'm not in any way saying Jahi is in the same condition but does anyone REALLY know? I started this video thinking i knew how it was going to end... and very surprised at the outcome.

-------
I just watched. My son was just like this from a blood clot in his basilar artery. 3 1/2yrs. he developed leukemia. He chose no treatment, he passed.

 

[joypath]

What concerns me, though, is that supposedly families don't have to give consent for a brain dead loved one to be taken off the ventilator, yet in this case that's exactly what happened - the hospital was forced to accede to the family's understandable but unreasonable wishes, even in the face of 6 doctors confirming Jahi's brain death. So what's to stop the family from making another stop in court to prevent the coroner from doing an autopsy?

I guess what I'm really wondering is - even though the family is not supposed to have a choice about the autopsy, they are in control of the body, not the coroner's office. Can the family end up preventing the autopsy, even if they are not supposed to be able to, and yet still sue CHO for wrongful death, malpractice, etc.? That would leave CHO with a big handicap in the ability to defend themselves. They'd have their documentation but no way to show what actually lead to Jahi's death and their culpability (or not) in it.

The family/lawyer went to court to get "more time" on the vent, they were fortunate that the Judge offered a compromise solution, a compromise that was a decision of Solomon, IMHO to give them time to accept the death. The death has been declared & recorded.
There is NO appeal to the court over a Coroner decision in any jurisdiction that I am familiar with by practice experience. Jahi was released from the Coroner/OCME's office with conditions, not meeting those conditions would I ASSUME lead to legal prosecution. The conditions of the entire CHO to Coroner to Mrs W were litigated prior to their implementation.
IF CHO became "stuck with" the situation of "no final evaluation" of Jahi's body, then any case IMHO (non-lawyerish) should be stronger for CHO based on family actions & vocalizations, many possibly contrary to the medical record & societal standards

My assessments & opinions, thankfully NO experience in releasing decedents on vents or IVs!

 

[otto]

The younger brother says "She would do everything for me. She would make my plate, wash my clothes, without her there it is just not the same".

Sorry but that kid is like 10 or so. One would think their MOTHER would make their plate and wash their clothes. That statement was coached to an extreme. A kid that age would NOT come up with something like that regarding the death or serious illness of their own sister! He would say typical kid stuff, stuff like he misses her, they have fun together etc... He would NOT start pointing out how "useful" she was in a practical sense regarding meals and laundry!

I knew this was coming. First, it was said that this 13 year old child with serious health issues did the ironing for the younger children. I knew it would be just a matter of time before it was alleged that she did everything from laundry, to preparing meals, helping with homework and that she pretty much ran the household. I believe the reason for this is to imply that she had a significant role and therefore this is not about the loss of a child, but about the loss of all those roles ... meaning there should be a huge financial compensation.

 

[Karmady]

The family/lawyer went to court to get "more time" on the vent, they were fortunate that the Judge offered a compromise solution, a compromise that was a decision of Solomon, IMHO to give them time to accept the death. The death has been declared & recorded.
There is NO appeal to the court over a Coroner decision in any jurisdiction that I am familiar with by practice experience. Jahi was released from the Coroner/OCME's office with conditions, not meeting those conditions would I ASSUME lead to legal prosecution. The conditions of the entire CHO to Coroner to Mrs W were litigated prior to their implementation.
IF CHO became "stuck with" the situation of "no final evaluation" of Jahi's body, then any case IMHO (non-lawyerish) should be stronger for CHO based on family actions & vocalizations, many possibly contrary to the medical record & societal standards

My assessments & opinions, thankfully NO experience in releasing decedents on vents or IVs!

~bbm

Honestly, I don't think he even did that. At least not at a legal level (not knowing what his personal motivations were, if any). It was a TRO situation. Everything extremely expedited and complicated by the holiday schedules of many. I think he maintained the status quo pending (a very quick time for) appeal. Which is exactly what I would have expected him to do. jmo

 

[Nore]

Hi all, I just cant fathom how long this will go on. What will be the straw that breaks it? When food starts escaping the body? This may not be pretty. I feel so sorry for Jahi. They should just let her rest. By now I doubt she has a brain left. All brains liquify by this time. I learned a lot (we all did) from the Body Farm~ah Dr. A.Vass. not morbid but interesting. I've prayed for Jahi..

 

[CHERIE.T]

Hi all, I just cant fathom how long this will go on. What will be the straw that breaks it? When food starts escaping the body? This may not be pretty. I feel so sorry for Jahi. They should just let her rest. By now I doubt she has a brain left. All brains liquify by this time. I learned a lot (we all did) from the Body Farm~ah Dr. A.Vass. not morbid but interesting. I've prayed for Jahi..

Nore, my husband and I discussed this earlier today. Unless the court changes things, I'm afraid This will go on until her heart stops. I'm trying not to think about what physical changes will occur before then.

 

[txsvicki]

I would like to comment on the bedwetting.

I do reports on older kids who are still wetting the bed. Many factors contribute. It is a stress for the family especially because Pullups at a certain point do not contain all the urine nor do adult diapers so moms (and fathers also if they take part) are constantly changing sheets and doing laundry. To me Jahi looked like she needed adult diapers and they are very expensive compared to Pullups so there is the financial consideration. Bedclothes become soaked as well and changing and laundering sheets and mattress protectors every day can be tiresome. Sheets are expensive and a child who soaks the bed every night is going to need plenty. Often times the sheets have to be changed a couple of times during the night for bigger kids who have large volumes. Mothers become frustrated and want something done.

I don't what else they tried for Jahi. There are bedwetting alarms to get them up, restricting fluids and medication they can take but it does not always solve the problem. If the docs felt that her bedwetting was caused by the sleep apnea then fixing the sleep apnea would be "fixing" the problem. Imagine if every time you woke your bed was soaked in urine. It would be so frustrating. It is truly uncomfortable and can be a source of shame for older kids.

I know Jahi had other problems and I can see where her NW would have thought that this surgery was the cure for all her problems and Jahi would have a better quality of life.

My son wet the bed til about age 12, but so did his dad and his aunt. There were no emotional problems and the pediatrician said just don't make a big deal, which I never did. He said he'd grow out of it and trying to find a physical problem would be too much. My son did have very bad allergies, and I wonder if that contributed to maybe sleep apnea.

 

[Roxye]

My son wet the bed til about age 12, but so did his dad and his aunt. There were no emotional problems and the pediatrician said just don't make a big deal, which I never did. He said he'd grow out of it and trying to find a physical problem would be too much. My son did have very bad allergies, and I wonder if that contributed to maybe sleep apnea.

I agree with the part about not making a big deal about it. I cannot however understand why you doctor would want to find the physical problem.

Once we had Nikel's adenoids/tonsils removed, he had only a handful of accidents. I haven't heard him snore since and he hasn't fallen asleep in class since. It was, not maybe, sleep apnea.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/Amicus_brief.pdf



This may be the strangest thing filed in court yet. As far as I can understand it says that Jahi chose to make herself brain dead and unable to breathe to save energy in order to be able to survive and stay conscious. Her consciousness waits for further recovery opportunities somewhere other than her brain which she doesn't really need because she has a magical connection with her mother, due to being a child. The author appears to be just a random character with lots and lots of issues of his own, not related to the family or any other parties in the case.

Hypothesis: Jahi McMath, a child in an early development stages, under extreme trauma, dependant and trusting of her maternal-child communication and bond, to conserve her energy and retain her consciousness and support her survival, involuntarily and rationally shut down the non-essential systems of her body - including her brain and brain stem. And thus, her consciousness retreated to a more primary layer of 'Systems Biology' physiology in the hope that the prevailing conditions would change and that at a time in the future the opportunities for repair and recovery would arrive.

I can't even find a suitable emoticon to attach here. Every day there seems to be more and more evidence that having brain function is indeed not essential for many human activities, including writing court briefs and getting paid for professional services. (He claims to be a massage therapist and a life coach who works with people with early traumas and mental health issues.)
http://www.daniellappin.com/05.html

Perhaps the scariest thing on his site was a recommendation letter from a nursing professor saying he's taught nursing students and got excellent reviews. Maybe he forgot to tell them that brain stem functions are non-essential.

 

[Sonya610]

http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/Amicus_brief.pdf

This may be the strangest thing filed in court yet.

involuntarily and rationally shut down the non-essential systems of her body - including her brain and brain stem.

Uhhh....so breathing is "non-essential"? Okay then.

Can we imagine how many nit-wits will read that and nod their heads and think "Yes, this man is very educated, he uses words fancy words like involuntarily and rationally therefore what he says makes perfect sense!".