Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

[Wolf Dreamer]

Is there any precedent for the hospital - or A.N.Other - seeking legal authorisation to release the medical records?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

For those in the medical profession or those that have large families, is it normal to have so many relatives in attendance when someone is getting surgery or in the hospital.

(I have very little family so my experiences are different)

In my experiences, usually one person would stay at the hospital and take turns with other family members. People would go home in between. I don't know how far this family lived from the hospital though.

I just find it so odd that so many stayed and slept at the hospital all over the place. It does make me wonder if something did happen after the surgery and it was disruptive to the staff and other patients.

The actions of the family certainly were disruptive during the time period after Jahi was declared dead. Even taking into account their grief, I am having a really hard time with the disrespect shown to others at the hospital.

 

[Donjeta]

BBM: Yes, people are saying that they hospital wanted to pull the plug because they are insensitive and/or because it is related to the payout in a lawsuit being less if she is deceased. There seems to be some mass conspiracy going around that hospitals end lives to save money and to harvest organs.

Here is Terry Schavio's brother speaking. He is the director of the Terry Schavio Foundation. Notice how he completely skirts over the question about the laws:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/30205011...s-family-stands-by-jahi-mcmath/#sp=show-clips

I'm getting very confused. I understand the conception side of the argument (which includes not using birth control), but the end of life views are something I never thought of. or was unaware of.

I wasn't aware there are those out there against organ donations because of the heart still beating. They want to throw out everything to do with brain death. They don't even talk about the laws, they just bash the medical community. I don't understand how far this goes with the end of life care.

Do they want people in hospice type situations, that are suffering, to be kept alive as long as possible? Where does this movement end?

A rather inflammatory video, they talk about "killing" her and making "the decision to end her life". And say she had a tonsillectomy.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

On CHO public FB page, "Posts by Others", see 1/8/14 post by DJ:

Quester, the top of that FB page (CHResearch Center Oakland) and the post to the left of DJ's states that that page is NOT the official page--so post validity may be suspect. The official hospital one is listed as "children's hospital oakland" at that web address.

 

[Quester]

Quester, the top of that FB page (CHResearch Center Oakland) and the post to the left of DJ's states that that page is NOT the official page--so post validity may be suspect. The official hospital one is listed as "children's hospital oakland" at that web address.

Can't find where it says "not the official page" - can you give date of post where it's stated or clearer direction where it it stated? TIA

My take: hospital may have 2 FB pages due to official name and commonly referred to name differences. JMO

ETA: Note: I'm a novice FB visitor.

ETA2: Regardless of the FB page being official or not, that post should be properly weighed anyway since it is second hand info - each reader should take it for what they think it's worth. JMO

 

[otto]

LPNs are in fact nurses. A "Licensed Practical Nurse" does not have the same education as a RN and their scope is limited in comparison. But a LPN is most certainly a nurse and they do give medications.

As an aside many hospitals no longer employ LVNs in my state. A hospital where I once worked no longer hired them but did not fire the ones who were there. They could give meds but not IV push meds. This was a problem on the oncology floor since so many meds are IV. This caused friction between the LVNs and RNs as the RNs frequently had to interrupt their care of their own patients to give IV push drugs for the LVNs.

LVNs are still widely used in long term care in my state and many of them are very very good nurses.

The grandmother is a LVN, a licensed vocational nurse, and she has an additional certificate in "IV Therapy".

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Can't find where it says "not the official page" - can you give date of post where it's stated or clearer direction where it it stated? TIA

My take: hospital may have 2 websites due to official name and commonly referred to name. JMO

ETA: Note: I'm a novice FB visitor.

ETA2: Regardless of the FB page being official or not, that post should be properly weighed anyway since it is second hand info - each reader should take it for what they think it's worth. JMO

True, it is likely that the hospital has two fb pages, and that they want all the support comments going to one which they can better manage. Here are two things from that page that made me think this (no dubious material included):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/09syeh5s63vvqkw/Screen Shot 2014-01-15 at 12.19.23 PM.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aflwkw8war8ny60/Screen Shot 2014-01-15 at 12.19.34 PM.png

 

[Quester]

True, it is likely that the hospital has two fb pages, and that they want all the support comments going to one which they can better manage. Here are two things from that page that made me think this (no dubious material included):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/09syeh5s63vvqkw/Screen%20Shot%202014-01-15%20at%2012.19.23%20PM.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aflwkw8war8ny60/Screen Shot 2014-01-15 at 12.19.34 PM.png

The first is a comment from a person who doesn't work for CHO, that I could tell, and gave nothing to support their assertion.

The second is the FB header (or whatever FB calls it) photo, and may, as you suggested, just be trying to direct ppl to the other page, or may be a billboard or marketing photo/campaign, or ???.

At any rate, I think I'll leave my post up-thread with link and if Mods are concerned about it they will do as they see fit. Thanks PIM and Mods!

 

[Nore]

LPNs are in fact nurses. A "Licensed Practical Nurse" does not have the same education as a RN and their scope is limited in comparison. But a LPN is most certainly a nurse and they do give medications.

As an aside many hospitals no longer employ LVNs in my state. A hospital where I once worked no longer hired them but did not fire the ones who were there. They could give meds but not IV push meds. This was a problem on the oncology floor since so many meds are IV. This caused friction between the LVNs and RNs as the RNs frequently had to interrupt their care of their own patients to give IV push drugs for the LVNs.

LVNs are still widely used in long term care in my state and many of them are very very good nurses.

-----------
Hi nrdsb4, I'm sorry. You are right. I used the wrong words. Dont tell my relatives as I have two LPN and one RN.:floorlaugh: early on in the posts it was mentioned by a poster that gramma might be an NA. That is totally different from an LPN and I know it. I think my mind was twisted. Things are the same here.
I should look it up. Even if gramma was a nurse I dont think she should touch anything so critical. I have witnessed suctioning but never touched it ,I went for help. I think what I'm trying to say is unless one works for that hospital they should keep hands off.:seeya:

 

[mck16]

For those in the medical profession or those that have large families, is it normal to have so many relatives in attendance when someone is getting surgery or in the hospital.

(I have very little family so my experiences are different)

In my experiences, usually one person would stay at the hospital and take turns with other family members. People would go home in between. I don't know how far this family lived from the hospital though.

I just find it so odd that so many stayed and slept at the hospital all over the place. It does make me wonder if something did happen after the surgery and it was disruptive to the staff and other patients.

The actions of the family certainly were disruptive during the time period after Jahi was declared dead. Even taking into account their grief, I am having a really hard time with the disrespect shown to others at the hospital.

I won't say it is 'normal' but it is pretty common if the patient is in a critical or terminal state. I personally think this situation started off fairly normal but someplace along the way was derailed. With all those people around one comment could have started the whole thing. And then the Judge granted them more days on the vent. It just snowballed from there and became the monster it is today. jmo

 

[Quester]

... and the mother's denial that the child is brain/brain-stem dead.
... and the mother's insistence on keeping the brain/brain-stem dead child on a vent, now going on ~35 days.

Oh my!

 

[threecrazykids]

For those in the medical profession or those that have large families, is it normal to have so many relatives in attendance when someone is getting surgery or in the hospital.

(I have very little family so my experiences are different)

In my experiences, usually one person would stay at the hospital and take turns with other family members. People would go home in between. I don't know how far this family lived from the hospital though.

I just find it so odd that so many stayed and slept at the hospital all over the place. It does make me wonder if something did happen after the surgery and it was disruptive to the staff and other patients.

The actions of the family certainly were disruptive during the time period after Jahi was declared dead. Even taking into account their grief, I am having a really hard time with the disrespect shown to others at the hospital.

Not to mention MY main question -

If this was such a routine surgery like they claim it was why the hell was every Tom, Dick, Harry and Larry all there at the hospital for this surgery?

Makes NO sense to me at all...

 

[popsicle]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 14m
Chris Dolan's discussion on the Huffington Post begins at 11:57am today. http://ow.ly/sCxhb

COMING UP 2:52 PM
If A Brain Is Dead, Should The Person Die, Too?

 

[NevadaMom]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 14m
Chris Dolan's discussion on the Huffington Post begins at 11:57am today. http://ow.ly/sCxhb

COMING UP 2:52 PM
If A Brain Is Dead, Should The Person Die, Too?

I'm not sure if I should :facepalm: or go make some popcorn to watch that trainwreck.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Not to mention MY main question -

If this was such a routine surgery like they claim it was why the hell was every Tom, Dick, Harry and Larry all there at the hospital for this surgery?

Makes NO sense to me at all...

I guess some families are different.

In my family, everybody goes for everything.
The waiting room would look the same if it was a broken arm in the ER, a tonsil surgery, or a triple bypass.

We are very close and we all show our support.

 

[Donjeta]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 14m
Chris Dolan's discussion on the Huffington Post begins at 11:57am today. http://ow.ly/sCxhb

COMING UP 2:52 PM
If A Brain Is Dead, Should The Person Die, Too?

What person? If my brain dies, I'm already dead as a person, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[danzn16]

I've done rotations in surgery where I'm with the surgeon and first assist in surgeries. The surgeon would go out and talk to the family after and let them know how it went. Usually there was only one family member waiting but occasionally there would be 3 or 4. Only one time was an entire family and extended family present and that was when it was a very risky surgery, the patient was very sick, and there was known risk of death prior to the surgery. So that would also lead me to believe that they knew this surgery was very risky. Maybe they are different than most and had the whole family there for a routine surgery? It's a possibility but I have no idea why they would do that.

 

[joypath]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 14m
Chris Dolan's discussion on the Huffington Post begins at 11:57am today. http://ow.ly/sCxhb

COMING UP 2:52 PM
If A Brain Is Dead, Should The Person Die, Too?

OMG....CD is really sticking to his guns re: CHO's responsiblity!!!!

He WILL NOT defuse the difference between PVS, coma & brain dead!!!!

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I've done rotations in surgery where I'm with the surgeon and first assist in surgeries. The surgeon would go out and talk to the family after and let them know how it went. Usually there was only one family member waiting but occasionally there would be 3 or 4. Only one time was an entire family and extended family present and that was when it was a very risky surgery, the patient was very sick, and there was known risk of death prior to the surgery. So that would also lead me to believe that they knew this surgery was very risky. Maybe they are different than most and had the whole family there for a routine surgery? It's a possibility but I have no idea why they would do that.

Because some families just do. We do.

 

[Donjeta]

CD's complaining because people are saying that Jahi is dead. According to him they can't say so because they're not medical professionals. (You need to be a medical professional to know that someone with a death certificate is most likely dead?)