Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[K_Z]

http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2014/...-childrens-hospitals-continued-insensitivity/

Anyone else notice Jahi's mother is behind the minister? I wonder if Jahi is somewhere local.

If this is a recent picture, there are at least 4-5 reporters visible. So, if this is newsworthy, we should be hearing more about this press conference soon.

That does look like NW-- her common hairstyle and earrings. Interesting.

 

[i.b.nora]

http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2014/...-childrens-hospitals-continued-insensitivity/

Anyone else notice Jahi's mother is behind the minister? I wonder if Jahi is somewhere local.

Although there is no date or credit given on the photograph used to accompany the article, it is obvious to me that it was taken in front of Children's Hospital and further research indicates that the photo was taken at a press conference or gathering on Monday December 23, 2013 where Rev. Mayberry made an appearance.

You can see a similar photo from the event at:
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...-to-Examine-Jahi-McMath-Monday-236982021.html

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Yes, it's an old photo. The woman that wrote the article being discussed has written a bunch more on Jahi over the last couple months. If you click on her name in the article it will take you to the others.

The tone of the articles IMO, cases more harm than good.

 

[i.b.nora]

Further research indicates the gathering or press conference was on Sunday December 22, with a small demonstration in front of the hospital the next day.

The same writer wrote an article at the time using the same photo:

http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2013/12/27/jahi-mcmath-declared-brain-dead-family-still-fighting/

I tend to think the latest article was somewhat manufactured in the sense that its kind of slow news these days, its been raining, so the writer got the idea of doing a followup and calling people such as Mayberry to see what's new. Then she called the City Councilwoman to see what she thought. She didn't call the CEO of Children's but she did spell his name wrong. I don't really think there was any news conference today.

 

[ca2james]

Rev. Mayberry may also be complaining that Jahi's own family was assigned security escorts.

The uncle, IIRC, made mention of this in interviews, as well as complaining that not all of the family ID's were identical (apparently some were laminated, and some weren't). NW complained that she was "bothered" by all of the people in the halls, lobbies, and waiting rooms, who wanted to touch her and pray with her, burning incense, wanting to see Jahi. The hospital had to provide security for Jahi and Jahi's own family from the very people THEY recruited on social media to come to the hospital!

I really hope that isn't what Rev. Mayberry is complaining about.

Thanks, K_Z. If that's what the Reverend is complaining about, my exasperation has no words.

ca2james
Your post did a good job of summarizing my looooooooooong post 756,
in which I asked about this same issue.
Thanks for boiling it down to the nitty gritty.

I must have been composing mine when your post was published. You're welcome. Your post had more quotes which makes it better from a research and explanation standpoint.

 

[Nore]

http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2014/...-childrens-hospitals-continued-insensitivity/

Anyone else notice Jahi's mother is behind the minister? I wonder if Jahi is somewhere local.

----------
Hi SophieRose, I personally believe Jahi is at home. All they'd need is around the clock nursing I think, I must remember her mother is totally responsible for her now. That costs money. I feel they are running out~ you and I know how fast most people forget, this IMO is being brought up again to reinterest people. I'm sure some who believed the family are questioning right or wrong.
I feel so sorry for the hospital. They have a duty to see to it nothing bothers their other patients and they did what was needed. When the family does accept that she is dead I hope they have sense enough to have a closed casket. In Ohio one must unless the body is embalmed. What a mess. IMO again.:seeya:
One more! Jahi has a death certificate. I'd like to know how they would get her out of State, a body must be embalmed before you can take it across State lines no matter where one lives.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

BBM
I was uncomfortable with the demonstrations from the beginning because I felt that they were interfering with the hospital's normal routines and procedures as well as with other patients and visitors. Even if they were completely peaceful, the size of the group would have made navigating the ebtrances and exits much more difficult than normal for everyone. What a tremendously selfish act! And now this group feels like they deserve even more time and attention? Unbelievable.

Not only that, but parking is probably tight; it usually IS anywhere near a hospital, even if they have their own lot or a multii-level garage. Were there a lot of extra cars that brought the protesters? They had to park SOMEwhere. Some of them probably even used handicapped parking (presumably valid) that disabled visitors or outpatients could have used.

 

[TracyLynnS]

From the article K_Z linked in post #753

Councilwoman Desley Brooks has also expressed her discontent with the way Children’s Hospital publicly handled McMath’s case.

“The question isn’t why I believe it’s important for Children’s Hospital to have the meeting with the pastors who wrote to them, but rather why wouldn’t Children’s want to respond to the legitimate concerns of members of the very community they seek to serve,” said Brooks.

Does anyone from the council woman to the group of clergymen who are contacting the hospital understand that the hospital is muzzled by federal law? The hospital can't provide "answers" "in regards to the way they handled the case of Jahi McMath" unless the Jahi's family gives them permission.

I realize all of us here know that, but the general public probably has no clue that the hospital can't provide private information to some random group of people who are making demands about a patient's healthcare.

The way these hangers on are behaving is so aggravating. Everyone wants their face on TV at the expense of a little girl. It's actually disturbing.

 

[Donjeta]

“…We watched the hospital spokesperson tell the public “there is no amount of hope, there is no amount of prayer, she is dead”; we watched as the hospital hired extra security for people who were hurting but demonstrated no violent behavior,” said Rev. Harold Mayberry of First A.M.E. Church in Oakland.

Reverend Mayberry wants hospitals to lie and say that dead people aren't?

 

[Quester]

2/10/14: What Is Brain Death?

... In contrast to the unequivocal contemporary official medical and legal position on brain death, surveys show widespread misunderstanding among the US public about what the term means. In 2003, in a survey of 1,000 households, James DuBois and T. Schmidt found that 47 percent agreed wrongly that “a person who is declared brain dead by a physician is still alive according to the law.” In 2004, a survey of 1,351 residents of Ohio found that 28 percent believed that brain dead people can hear. Yet another study, from 2003, found that only 16 percent of 403 surveyed families equated brain death with death.

... “studies consistently show that the general public and some medical personnel are inadequately familiar with the legal and medical status of brain death.”

... it’s also important that the public understand the existing consensus that is founded on the latest medical evidence and deliberation – that brain death means death. It’s not a preliminary or unfinished form of death. It’s not a persistent vegetative state. It is final. It is death. ...

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/02/brain-death/

 

[neesaki]

I've been reading al the threads about Jahi and have not posted yet. But at this point I need to voice my opinions. First, I think she should have been let go when she died. I agree with all of you.

However, these threads have turned into nothing but pure speculation about where she is and the condition of her body. It is for that reason alone that I believe in MHO it Needs to be shut down until we have real news such as an update from her her caregivers, or news that her heart has finally stopped. Again, it is MOO that this has turned into nothing but gossipy speculation (this last photo just enforces that opinion). We have no idea whether this is a person or a movie prop, nor if it is a person, the condition of the body at autopsy.It completely disrespects the memory of a beautiful little girl who should have long been laid to rest. I've seen threads closed for less. I think this one had long ago run its course.

I have only followed this here and there, because it's such a painful and difficult situation, and because I think there is really nothing useful that can be said or added in order to "solve" it or even make things easier. But, yes, I agree, everything seems to be being based on nothing but a lot of speculation with very little actual knowledge of what is going on. That along with a little exaggeration at times for some additional special effects. And there seems to be more than enough judgment to go around against the poor family.

This is nothing but a tragic situation and if Jahi is indeed allegedly as "brain dead" as everyone claims I would presume that she is no longer suffering. The family are the ones who are suffering in their grief and inability to let go. So prayers to Jahi's family, and for Jahi in heaven if that's where she is. I just don't know what else can be said. Let her rest.

 

[liljim]

^yeah, i stopped following it when the conversation devolved into all the different ways her body was likely to be breaking down...

although checking back in now i cant believe almost nothing has changed or been updated since the day after she left the hospital. amazing.

 

[CHERIE.T]

2/10/14: What Is Brain Death?

... In contrast to the unequivocal contemporary official medical and legal position on brain death, surveys show widespread misunderstanding among the US public about what the term means. In 2003, in a survey of 1,000 households, James DuBois and T. Schmidt found that 47 percent agreed wrongly that “a person who is declared brain dead by a physician is still alive according to the law.” In 2004, a survey of 1,351 residents of Ohio found that 28 percent believed that brain dead people can hear. Yet another study, from 2003, found that only 16 percent of 403 surveyed families equated brain death with death.

... “studies consistently show that the general public and some medical personnel are inadequately familiar with the legal and medical status of brain death.”

... it’s also important that the public understand the existing consensus that is founded on the latest medical evidence and deliberation – that brain death means death. It’s not a preliminary or unfinished form of death. It’s not a persistent vegetative state. It is final. It is death. ...

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/02/brain-death/

bumping up, thanks QUESTER

 

[Tulessa]

We are a victim friendly site, but it's getting hard for me to consider the parents victims now. I still pray that they will find comfort and solace, and come to terms with this baby's condition. That's all I can do.

 

[K_Z]

Nice discussion of brain death by a neuroscientist, comparing and contrasting Jahi McMath's and Marlise Munoz's cases.

What Is Brain Death?

By Christian Jarrett
02.10.14
5:45 AM

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/02/brain-death/

But for those more persuaded by the idea of death as irrevocably linked, not with brain function, but with the end of heart and lung activity, consider this unpleasant thought experiment (borrowed from LiPuma and DeMarco). If a decapitated person’s body could be maintained on life support – with beating heart and circulating, oxygenated blood – would that person still be “alive” without their brain? And consider the converse – the classic “brain in a vat”. Would a conscious, thinking brain, sustained this way, though it had no breath and no beating heart, be considered dead? Surely not. Such unpalatable thought experiments demonstrate how brain death can actually be a more compelling marker of end of life than any perspective that focuses solely on bodily function.

Of course, some people will have personal, spiritual or religious beliefs that contradict the current medical and legal position on brain death (such is the case with McMath’s family), and respect and sensitivity is important in these cases. Note, however, that both mainstream Judaism and Islam have accepted the concept of brain death. And, according to Steven Laureys writing in 2005, the Catholic Church has also stated that “the moment of death is not a matter for the church to resolve.”

Bold emphasis by me.

And, BTW, Paul Byrne must have missed the Catholic church memo on that. Or, maybe he thinks he just knows things that Catholic theologians and scholars don't.

 

[K_Z]

Holy smokes! I overlooked that Quester had already posted the link to the neuroscientist article. My apologies!

 

[Quester]

No worries K_Z. We each picked out different and important points made by the author AND I always enjoy/appreciate reading your opinions/writings/explanations!

Thanks for all you contribute to these threads/cases! :tyou:

 

[Nore]

Also this is the caption of undated pix in K_Z's linked article, pub 02/09 just above:

"Rev. Dr. Harold R. Mayberry and other clergy members addressed the press about
complaints alleging Children's Hospital insensitive to the family of Jahi McMath."

And from article, as BBM and SBM:
"Oakland clergy are still demanding answers from Children’s Hospital Oakland
in regards to the way they handled the case of Jahi McMath."

"...“The hospital’s attempt to dilute our righteous concerns..." and

"Because the hospital is an important institution in the community, he said, the goal of the meeting
“was to attempt to bring healing to what has been a very painful situation for the community.”
said Rev M.

It puzzles me that Rev M still wants, ostensibly on behalf of Jahi's fam,
to intercede w hosp about its alleged insensitivity to fam.

Since late Dec, Jahi's mom has had legal counsel of her choice, filed a lawsuit
(re transfer and other petitions re other issues) to rep her interests.

IIRC, Rev M does not claim to be a pastor to Jahi, her mom, or any fam.
What the heck can Rev M or any other self-appted person do to rep Jahi or Jah's mom, esp now?

How about Rev M attempting to 'bring healing' to Jahi's fam, who does not seem to have
pastor or faith influences to help them ack. her death?

Just because Rev M's church and CHO in the same city,
does that somehow entitle Rev M to demand HIPAA-protected info re Jahi?

Why is Rev M making the kind of stmts that could reasonably be expected, if say, multiple hosp employees
all known to be suffering from bubonic plague, typhoid, malaria, yellow fever, German measles, and tuberculosis were
working there day in and day out and spreading diseases to ppl in the community.
Then Rev M's asking questions of CHO re public health concerns would seem reasonable, imo.

JM2cts and I could be wrong. :seeya:

----------
I wonder what part of HIPAA the Reverend doesn't understand. Or does he consider the clergy to be above the law? They are not. He is not a member of the family, didnt know Jahi, what gives him the right legally! :seeya:

 

[NevadaMom]

BBM SBM

Respectfully k'rose, discussing events and possibilities, or as you say, speculation, is the nature of W/S, imo.
Even w Jahi's fam not speaking to MSM or SM, in the meantime, ppl here post and link informative articles that
help the non-med-knowledgable, esp me, understand more about Jahi's situation and med issues we could encounter ourselves.
Undoubtedly this thread is spurring ppl to discuss adv. care directives, med. power of atty, and
what they would and would not want under various circumstances, etc.

I hope these discussions also lead to folks drafting and signing adv. directive, med/healthcare durable power of attorney documents approp for their individual circumstances.

JM2cts and I may be wrong. :seeya:

I've been heckling my husband about advanced directives and getting a will done just in case something happens to either one us. We have two young daughters and there needs to be a legally binding plan in place. We're actually only domestic partners in our state, thus gaining access to all his various accounts for funds would be a huge pain in the rear (and perhaps even involve a tangle with his mother who doesn't like me). Though it was the Marlise Muñoz case that really drove the notion home that we need to get our ducks in a row.

The amount I've learned from these posts has been staggering. It's sent me on hours long Googling sprees about medical terminology, procedures, and anatomy. I can safely say I've learned and retained more in 2 months than I did in any science class in high school. I mentioned this upthread, but it's also made me seriously consider (again) enrolling in nursing school.

:twocents:

 

[Nore]

We drew up wills when we bought our first home many years ago. We got new ones when our son died, I drew up a new one when Joe died also a new living will. It gives one peace of mind. I seriously think if Jahi had been buried when she died, we would have read about it felt just as bad, but gone on. The thing that is so shocking is how can anyone do this? will others try to follow suit? I sure hope not but there are loonies out there. We feel sorry for the girl~ she is safely in Heaven now and her mother if so religious should know that. We have all looked at some rough stuff through the years. We are all curious by nature but dam, in a loving way! :loveyou: