Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

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  • #121
Has anyone heard any legal eagles discussing that inserting a feeding tube into a corpse, as well as maintaining IV access in a corpse may fall under the "abuse of a corpse" definition? And if so, who brings about such a charge? I suppose no one would touch it with a 10 foot pole though. I can't imagine there is any political benefit for a party to do so, no matter what the moral or ethical grounds may be.

Since the family sanctioned all of it there is no way charges of "abusing a corpse" could be filed. Maybe the doctor that did it could face scrutiny but not abuse of a corpse.

If the definition were that broad than removing organs for donations, autopsies, using bodies for medical research/students, the body farm etc...would ALL be considered abuse.
 
  • #122
I read up thread, in one of the uncle's tweets, the 60K that was raised was used to fund Jahi's transfer to the new facility. If she went by ambulance, did that cost 60K? Is the family still soliciting funds?

I hope now that Jahi has been moved to a different facility, NW can spend time with her other children and resume some semblance of normalcy. I can't imagine what it would be like sitting at the bedside of my dead child waiting for a miracle.

Sometimes I wonder if the family has any regrets keeping JM breathing artificially. Once you start something that garners so much attention, it can be hard to reverse your position. It is my hope that NW can give herself permission to let JM go. Soon. JMV
 
  • #123
Omg. What a clear case of cognitive bias.

Cognitive bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These 2 women have no idea what they are talking about. The errors in this are astounding, particularly for the woman in the blue shirt who is very confident she knows what she is talking about.

And wow, Jahi's mom really is in her 20's?? Did I hear that?

I haven't listened to that show myself, but if you heard that, I hope to heaven they are wrong since she has a 20 year old daughter!

eta: never mind. I see y'all have it covered lol
 
  • #124
Thinking back to the report from Dr Flori about the condition of the body on January 3, I can't begin to imagine what else has happened in terms of the deterioration of the body. That report discussed not only the deterioration of the skin quality, but sloughing off of the lining of the bowel and them smell associated with the lungs. It seems like it must be rather horrific today, more than two weeks later.
 
  • #125
I would be totally shocked if there is any insurance except maybe government asisted. And even they have a maximum limit. I thought I read at the very beginning of all this that it was SSI (whatever it is called in CA)that was paying for the initial proceedings. But, I can't find it now. Based on issues I had when my children were young with insurance I can't believe she has any private insurance. jmo
 
  • #126
I just read about this other case I hadn't heard of, where this baby had Leigh's disease. It is different as the baby was not brain dead as far as I can tell. At least brain death is not mentioned anywhere.

The Canadian hospital wanted to remove life support and fought with the parents to do so. It was the Canadian hospital and policies that were looked at as the bad guys in this case. Some of the same groups that have helped the McMath's helped the parents of the baby get a operation and find a hospital in the US that would take the baby. There are many similarities, other than the brain death diagnosis.

Joseph Maraachli case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://brothersofpeace.org/index.php/multimedia

Leigh's disease

Leigh's disease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I found the politics.....interesting.....
 
  • #127
If Dolan is involved they have come to an agreement with the insurance company that they wound fund a certain amount of nursing home care in return for an agreement not to be dragged into a lawsuit.
 
  • #128
If Dolan is involved they have come to an agreement with the insurance company that they wound fund a certain amount of nursing home care in return for an agreement not to be dragged into a lawsuit.

I don't know what the financial situation is with the family. I don't know the eligibility requirements for some types of Medicaid program.

This is a unusual situation that I doubt insurance companies have guidelines on. Since they have challenged all the other rules, I would suspect they would challenge insurance payment as well.

I have seen the public speak out against insurance and government funding to pay for this. I thought the attorney was vague in response to his question about how the expenses are covered and the reason IMO, he was vague is because of those that have expressed strong opinion about how this is, or may be funded.

I don't blame the public at all for questioning how this is being funded, if it may apply to how their dollars are being spent or take away from dollars that could be allocated to the living.

I would imagine that there are some that donate to the NPO's that are assisting, that may want those donations going toward the living as well.

People have the right to know how their tax dollars are spent and how donated dollars to NPO's are allocated.

I personally, would not donate to a ******** type account. There is no way of knowing how those dollars are spent and a lot of people that did donate, may have been mislead about what is going on.

I see people donate to sites like this though all the time. Or, people send donations directly to people that create "hoaxes" online and through the media. It can be a learning lesson for some though, to make better informed judgments in the future.

It's like giving the money to the beggar on the street. There is no way of knowing if the money is going for food and shelter. In some cases it may and in other cases, it may be contributing to a substance abuse problem, which causes harm by prolonging the individual from seeking help due to their illness.
 
  • #129
  • #130
I have been reading this thread avidly hoping mum could find all her strength and let Jahi's earthly body be celebrated.

In my opinion she is an excellent example of denial under the Elizabeth kubler Ross model on death and dying.

I am hopeful Jahi's mum will finally let her baby girl rest

*five stages of grief - elisabeth kübler ross*

1 - Denial

Denial is a conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, reality, etc., relating to the situation concerned. It's a defence mechanism and perfectly natural. Some people can become locked in this stage when dealing with a traumatic change that can be ignored. Death of course is not particularly easy to avoid or evade indefinitely.

2 - Anger

Anger can manifest in different ways. People dealing with emotional upset can be angry with themselves, and/or with others, especially those close to them. Knowing this helps keep detached and non-judgemental when experiencing the anger of someone who is very upset.

3 - Bargaining

Traditionally the bargaining stage for people facing death can involve attempting to bargain with whatever God the person believes in. People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek to negotiate a compromise. For example "Can we still be friends?.." when facing a break-up. Bargaining rarely provides a sustainable solution, especially if it's a matter of life or death.

4 - Depression

Also referred to as preparatory grieving. In a way it's the dress rehearsal or the practice run for the 'aftermath' although this stage means different things depending on whom it involves. It's a sort of acceptance with emotional attachment. It's natural to feel sadness and regret, fear, uncertainty, etc. It shows that the person has at least begun to accept the reality.

5 - Acceptance

Again this stage definitely varies according to the person's situation, although broadly it is an indication that there is some emotional detachment and objectivity. People dying can enter this stage a long time before the people they leave behind, who must necessarily pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief.
 
  • #131

Totally different scenario with Jahi, but even in this young mans case there is no evidence to prove that "fish oil" contributed to his recovery. He most likely just gradually recovered. This is so scary to print, encouraging others to go behind the professionals expertise and treatment and give people substances that they think may cure someone. I think this family want to take credit for his recovery and also discredit the professionals.

What if other families take matters into their own hands and end up causing the death of loved ones.
 
  • #132
  • #133
I see they are reaching out in different directions. A family member posted on Joel Osteens FB page asking for donations. SMH

How much money is needed if NPO's are helping to finance this and the facility and care are being provided for free, like in the babies case that I posted above.
 
  • #134
I read up thread, in one of the uncle's tweets, the 60K that was raised was used to fund Jahi's transfer to the new facility. If she went by ambulance, did that cost 60K? Is the family still soliciting funds?

RSBM: Schindler's foundation paid for transport...
 
  • #135
"In my opinion, and this is pure speculation, he never would have come out of a coma if it hadn't been for the use of omega-3s to allow that natural healing process to occur," said Lewis, founder of the Brain Health Education and Research Institute. "In the end, the brain has to heal itself. There are no magic cures for brain injury."

Not saying that fish oil couldn't be beneficial in brain injury but they have no way of knowing whether he would have emerged from his coma without the fish oil.

Also note:

"There is no known solution; there's no known drug; there's nothing that we have really to offer these sorts of patients," said Bailes, who along with Lewis received money from companies that make fish oil after their treatment of Ghassemi and McCloy.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/19/health/fish-oil-brain-injuries/
 
  • #136

---------
What does it take? the family, lawyer, never use infarction. It hurts to use it I know, even partial infarct . This is brain death. Whole ~ total~ its not an injury its dead. I can understand the family not grasping it but all the so called educated people in the media? I doubt Jahi was ever in a coma. They could float someone in fish oil and it will do nothing, not even affect the skin which is dead. End of rant.:banghead::tantrum:
 
  • #137
I have been reading this thread avidly hoping mum could find all her strength and let Jahi's earthly body be celebrated.

In my opinion she is an excellent example of denial under the Elizabeth kubler Ross model on death and dying.

I am hopeful Jahi's mum will finally let her baby girl rest

*five stages of grief - elisabeth kübler ross*

1 - Denial

Denial is a conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, reality, etc., relating to the situation concerned. It's a defence mechanism and perfectly natural. Some people can become locked in this stage when dealing with a traumatic change that can be ignored. Death of course is not particularly easy to avoid or evade indefinitely.

2 - Anger

Anger can manifest in different ways. People dealing with emotional upset can be angry with themselves, and/or with others, especially those close to them. Knowing this helps keep detached and non-judgemental when experiencing the anger of someone who is very upset.

3 - Bargaining

Traditionally the bargaining stage for people facing death can involve attempting to bargain with whatever God the person believes in. People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek to negotiate a compromise. For example "Can we still be friends?.." when facing a break-up. Bargaining rarely provides a sustainable solution, especially if it's a matter of life or death.

4 - Depression

Also referred to as preparatory grieving. In a way it's the dress rehearsal or the practice run for the 'aftermath' although this stage means different things depending on whom it involves. It's a sort of acceptance with emotional attachment. It's natural to feel sadness and regret, fear, uncertainty, etc. It shows that the person has at least begun to accept the reality.

5 - Acceptance

Again this stage definitely varies according to the person's situation, although broadly it is an indication that there is some emotional detachment and objectivity. People dying can enter this stage a long time before the people they leave behind, who must necessarily pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief.

----------
Hi, I have never reached acceptance on either of mine. I guess I am glad I never was angry at anyone but the Doctor who left my son in ER. to go out on his boat! To my dying day I will never understand why I lost what I prayed so hard for..~~ P.S. Doctor lost his son in boating accident 2 yrs. later. Book by Dr. Ross is excellent. First one I read.:seeya:
 
  • #138
...
How much money is needed if NPO's are helping to finance this and the facility and care are being provided for free, like in the babies case that I posted above.
SBM

BeginnersLuck
In the Joseph M baby case you wiki-linked above,
"On March 14, 2011, Priests for Life announced it had secured a transfer to .... a non-profit Catholic hospital in St. Louis, MO, declaring victory in the "battle against the medical bureaucracy in Canada."[19] Priests for Life also announced it would pay for Joseph's medical care at Cardinal Glennon." BBM SBM

I understand that to mean that the St.L hosp billed for services, and Preists for Life org said it would pay for the care,
not that the hosp agreed to provide free care or agreed not to bill.

In various articles (no links) I've read est. of daily cost from $2000-$10,000 per day
for 'care' that Jahi would need. Not chicken feed.

How, when, why, under what circumstances a med facility would agree in advance
to accept transfer-in of a brain dead, vent 13 y/o patient ---
a pt who could conceivably cont in that condition for days, weeks, months, possibly years --
and not to bill for services, which could run into hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Did this magical, mysterious med facility agree to accept pt for a limited time (two weeks?)
or up to a certain $$$ cap?

Just wondering. :seeya:
 
  • #139
I don't know what the financial situation is with the family. I don't know the eligibility requirements for some types of Medicaid program.

This is a unusual situation that I doubt insurance companies have guidelines on. Since they have challenged all the other rules, I would suspect they would challenge insurance payment as well.

I have seen the public speak out against insurance and government funding to pay for this. I thought the attorney was vague in response to his question about how the expenses are covered and the reason IMO, he was vague is because of those that have expressed strong opinion about how this is, or may be funded.

I don't blame the public at all for questioning how this is being funded, if it may apply to how their dollars are being spent or take away from dollars that could be allocated to the living.

I would imagine that there are some that donate to the NPO's that are assisting, that may want those donations going toward the living as well.

People have the right to know how their tax dollars are spent and how donated dollars to NPO's are allocated.

I personally, would not donate to a ******** type account. There is no way of knowing how those dollars are spent and a lot of people that did donate, may have been mislead about what is going on.

I see people donate to sites like this though all the time. Or, people send donations directly to people that create "hoaxes" online and through the media. It can be a learning lesson for some though, to make better informed judgments in the future.

It's like giving the money to the beggar on the street. There is no way of knowing if the money is going for food and shelter. In some cases it may and in other cases, it may be contributing to a substance abuse problem, which causes harm by prolonging the individual from seeking help due to their illness.

----------
Hi BeginnersLuck, My son came under medicaid after his health insurance and his wifes coverage on him ran out. They did require him to be alive......:seeya:
 
  • #140
RSBM: Schindler's foundation paid for transport...

-----------
Hi Momrids6, I agree. Have you or anyone ever wondered if she is at home? would be much cheaper, more convenient,(?) easier for family. Lets face it they cant hurt the poor Angel. I guess I cant quite fathom any facility taking in a dead person. Not saying its wrong just cant see it.:seeya:
 
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