Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[meanmaryjean]

I was thinking the body would be retaining the fluids? <modsnip>

Wasn't the body supposedly given a feeding tube? How is that going to exist with no brain waves to tell it to poo and pee it out? Just curious.

Eliminating waste from the body are not conscious functions - the kidneys work even if the brain does not. Once the bladder gets to a certain volume, the stretch on the muscular wall triggers the bladder to empty regardless of any consciousness.

Same with the bowel, peristalsis continues and the natural result of peristalsis is defecation.

You're probably thinking that YOU can control these functions consciously. And you can, to a degree. But, if you tried to delay using the toilet for too long, eventually your body's natural functions would take over whether you 'willed' it or not.

And as far swelling, yes, there's a degree of swelling just because she is not moving. Just like if you have your arm in a sling, your fingers tend to swell.

 

[StephanieH]

She is likely diapered, as there is no control. This is explicit, but a doctor testifying in the case said that her colon would slough off with the bowel movements. She isn't actually digesting anything, it is just running through.

 

[Madeleine74]

So, is this nursing care type place pumping her with food & fluids because they think her body is actually utilizing this nutrition or are they doing it so it looks good for the family? Her body is not really digesting food and taking nutrients out of the food, right? So what is the point of this? Or does pumping in nutrition help maintain the appearance of the body?

 

[meanmaryjean]

As I've posted before- the sloughing does not mean she's not digesting the food. She is.

It was an incident from way back when she was not getting fed. The colon sheds the inner mucus lining. It's gross, but we see it often in kids who have had prolonged periods of not taking any enteral nutrition (meaning entering the normal digestive track by whatever means) Think of it like a snake shedding their skin. This mucus lining regenerates itself rather quickly.

Her body continues all the automatic functions of digestion and waste elimination. What is lost is consciousness and the drive to breathe (which comes from the brainstem). Her heart will continue to beat until the ventilator is removed or until some other thing happens to stop it.

This notion that she is somehow rotting internally is not supported.

 

[Quester]

What are the chances that JM is in the family/family-member's home? Would that even be possible with round the clock ?skilled nursing? care? Or does JM require more care that could only be provided in an established care facility? TIA

Personally, I have a hard time believing JM is any place beyond the Bay Area. JMO

 

[BeginnersLuck]

So, is this nursing care type place pumping her with food & fluids because they think her body is actually utilizing this nutrition or are they doing it so it looks good for the family? Her body is not really digesting food and taking nutrients out of the food, right? So what is the point of this? Or does pumping in nutrition help maintain the appearance of the body?

They are probably giving her nutrition through an IV. I don't know if they ever placed a feeding tube or not, but the thought of what would be going on if they tried to feed her that way is .....

 

[meanmaryjean]

I provide care for a ventilator-dependent toddler in his home. He has a tracheostomy tube, home ventilator, feeding tube and pump - it's entirely possible to care for someone on a vent at home.

 

[Quester]

*IF* JM is back east in a care facility, I'd like to know if her mother is there with her
or is JM there all by herself, without close kin?

 

[Nore]

I was thinking the body would be retaining the fluids? And blowing up?

Wasn't the body supposedly given a feeding tube? How is that going to exist with no brain waves to tell it to poo and pee it out? Just curious.

----------
I am thinking along the way they may back up and come out. On another note I read in a newspaper article the gtube was not placed. This is odd as they had reported it was. IMO it had to be removed. What happens when one overloads their tummy? just a thought but I did read about the gtube. I wouldnt want to be there. Oh how I wish we had a coroner on here! :floorlaugh: :loveyou:

 

[Nore]

I provide care for a ventilator-dependent toddler in his home. He has a tracheostomy tube, home ventilator, feeding tube and pump - it's entirely possible to care for someone on a vent at home.

---------

I have the same idea. An RN. would be well capable of handling it. My niece is an RN. in a nursing home that handles vent cases, dont think many do. This is a big Nursing home, former hospital building. Bless the little boy..:seeya:

 

[Nore]

What are the chances that JM is in the family/family-member's home? Would that even be possible with round the clock ?skilled nursing? care? Or does JM require more care that could only be provided in an established care facility? TIA

Personally, I have a hard time believing JM is any place beyond the Bay Area. JMO

----------
IMO chances are good. She is recieving skilled care but it would be hard to harm her. I've thought this all along. Lets not forget gramma to..I find myself wondering if she is "passing" anything. I cant fathom a N.H.taking her with patients there. A N.H. is not a hospital we all know that. If I had someone in there I'd get them out for fear of bacteria..maybe I'm wrong but thats hpw I'd feel. IMO.:moo:

 

[Trino]

http://teleutemania.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/********-suggests-hope-for-jahi-yet/

Interesting read.

 

[CHERIE.T]

http://teleutemania.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/********-suggests-hope-for-jahi-yet/

Interesting read.

The link says page not found. :seeya:

 

[meanmaryjean]

---------

I have the same idea. An RN. would be well capable of handling it. My niece is an RN. in a nursing home that handles vent cases, dont think many do. This is a big Nursing home, former hospital building. Bless the little boy..:seeya:

BBM: He's a cutie. Former 24 week preemie. Spent his first 15 months of life in the NICU. He's doing really, really well - starting to crawl (which, when you're on the vent is a challenge!), signing. Happy little guy. He'll wean off the vent in a year or so and live happily ever after. He just needs to get bigger. You actually grow new lung tissue until age eight- so we have high hopes for him.

 

[Donjeta]

http://teleutemania.wordpress.com/

This works. You have to scroll down a bit to see the post about Jahi.

Worth seeing for the quote about keeping faith in science...

 

[watcher9]

I haven't followed this thread closely, but try to stay up on the news.
This is such a sad situation to lose a young daughter and I can imagine a mother wanting to hold on, but after this amount of time I would think that nature will begin to take over.

I also haven't followed the thread much on Mrs Munoz and her baby, but this morning I read an article on the judge's decision in that case. In this article, Mr Munoz described in his affidavit the current condition of his wife. She was only in the hospital a few weeks before Jahi went in and I would assume that the hospital was giving her the best of care for the baby's sake during that time.

I don't know if these two cases are even close in nature, but I pray that Jahi's mother would let go before Jahi reaches this state. If not, it would be a horrible image for her to have of her loving daughter.

I felt her condition was too graphic to just post, but here is the article if you want to read it.

http://news.msn.com/us/judge-remove-life-support-for-pregnant-woman

 

[ca2james]

A new article:

How an Outdated California Law Is Impacting the Jahi McMath Case

This is my first post here; I've read all of these threads and registered days ago but found that I had less to say than I thought I did.

 

[Elley Mae]

A new article:

How an Outdated California Law Is Impacting the Jahi McMath Case

This is my first post here; I've read all of these threads and registered days ago but found that I had less to say than I thought I did.

Welcome aboard!

I hate when that happens. :fence:

 

[Donjeta]

A new article:

How an Outdated California Law Is Impacting the Jahi McMath Case

This is my first post here; I've read all of these threads and registered days ago but found that I had less to say than I thought I did.

Welcome!

In California, unlike in most other states, when a child dies due to medical negligence there is an artificial limit placed on the value of their life. That's because of the Medical Injury Compensation Reform Act (MICRA), a law passed in 1975 that places a $250,000 cap on non-economic damages. Due to this law, if Jahi remains on a ventilator, the hospital could face a multimillion-dollar verdict for economic damages, with a jury deciding what it would cost to continue to care for her medical needs and what the cost is of her lost wages due to her inability to work. However, if Jahi were to be taken off of the ventilator, the family may only recover $250,000 no matter how much a jury decides is a fair value to compensate them for the pain and suffering endured due to the loss of their child.

This law is unique to the medical profession in California. If a child were to die because of a reckless driver in a car accident or because of a pilot's error in a plane crash, it would be up to the jury to decide what they believe is fair to award the family due to their pain and suffering over the loss of a child. However, if a child dies due to an error made by a nurse or doctor, the jury's authority to decide how to compensate the family is taken away from them, without their knowledge. In these cases, a jury could return a substantial verdict only to find out afterward that the verdict will be reduced to $250,000, an amount set nearly 39 years ago. While social security benefits, wages, and the cost of goods and services has kept up with inflation, the cost of a child's life remains at an amount set back when Gerald Ford was president and Jerry Brown was governor for the first time.
...

We will never know whether financial motivations played a role in Children's Hospital's decision to encourage the McMath family to take Jahi off the ventilator despite their objections. However, due to the substantial difference in financial liability a hospital faces if a patient lives or dies, there is a concern that hospitals could have a financial incentive in turning off life support, a concern that would be erased if the value of a patient's life were not dependent upon an outdated law.

It might be time to raise the cap since the value of a child's life hasn't changed since 1975 but the value of money certainly has.

But otherwise I don't think this argument holds much water. It is based on the faulty premise that being on the ventilator makes a difference as to whether Jahi is dead or alive. But CHO didn't want Jahi off the ventilator to make her dead. They wanted her off the ventilator because she was already dead at the time so the damages cap was already effective no matter what. She is on the ventilator now but that doesn't mean that she isn't still dead. Her death certificate says she died in December when she was declared brain dead.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

A new article:

How an Outdated California Law Is Impacting the Jahi McMath Case

This is my first post here; I've read all of these threads and registered days ago but found that I had less to say than I thought I did.

The link didn't work, so I googled the article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/how-an-outdated-californi_b_4645768.html

It's an opinion piece and the author's family has business in medical malpractice. I watched the video in the link (same person in video is writer of article) some time ago and there were many, many statements made that were false or inaccurate.

Jahi is legally and medically deceased. That has been verified over and over again. Six different doctors have stated this. All of the treatments that family has chosen to do with Jahi are not typical in those that chose to not except brain death as death. The extraordinary measures the family has taken with Jahi's body is not going to make a difference in how much money they get in a law suit, as she is deceased.

To suggest that the first thought that comes to mind when medical providers are trying to save lives is some kind of dollar figure in a lawsuit is ludicrous. These medical providers are rushing to save the patient. Unfortunately it can't be done in all cases. Medicine is incredible but everyone can't be saved or cured. At this time, we do not know what happened that caused Jahi's death or if there was negligence by any of the medical providers. To make assumptions there was medical negligence is jumping the gun in this case.

I am a bit puzzled by the ballot initiative. We have regulations here in my state that attempt to prevent people from doctor shopping for medications. I don't know if there is anything already in place in CA. There are very few physicians that are willing to risk their licenses and careers by over prescribing.

I am not against having measures that help prevent overprescribing of prescription drugs or doctor shopping. I am empathetic to the parents that lost their beautiful children. I am puzzled though, that they want to take the blame beyond the person who committed the crime. It's like saying that a liquor store is responsible or legally liable if a person stocks up their liquor cabinet, gets drunk, drives and kills someone.

An addict, is an addict. If they can't get their hands on their drug of choice they will find something to replace it with.