Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[Madeleine74]

Does anyone here really believe Jahi is going is come back to life? I'm just curious.

I understand the questions being asked and the different viewpoints, but I'm talking specifically about Jahi, not some other case that seems similar, but really isn't the same.

 

[Madeleine74]

I imagine the insurance industry will have a dog in this fight too. I mean, with medical costs out of control how realistic is it to expect an insurance company to continue to cover the costs of keeping what doctors consider a deceased person in the hospital, on a ventilator, for week after week, month after month, when multiple doctors have independently diagnosed brain and brain stem death? And how many people would be able to pay to keep their loved-one in a care facility or in a hospital if they had to foot the entire bill?

 

[meme4]

The undulating toe flexion sign in brain death.

AuthorsMcNair NL, et al. Show all Journal
Mov Disord. 1992 Oct;7(4):345-7.


Brain-dead patients may exhibit gross spontaneous and reflex movements (e.g., Babinski sign, stereotypic flexion of one or more limbs, and Lazarus sign). We report three brain-dead patients who had unusual complex sequential movements of the toes. Undulating toe flexion was elicited by noxious stimuli to the lower extremities, and consisted of initial plantar flexion of the great toe, followed by sequential brief plantar flexion of the second, third, fourth, and fifth toes. The undulating toe flexion sign differs from previously described responses characterized by plantar flexion of the toes (e.g., Rosselimo's sign and the Mendel-Bechterew sign) in that it consists of complex patterned sequential movements of the digits rather than brief simultaneous flexion and/or fanning of the toes. Neurologists should be aware of this unusual finding, which should not preclude the diagnosis of brain death.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I imagine the insurance industry will have a dog in this fight too. I mean, with medical costs out of control how realistic is it to expect an insurance company to continue to cover the costs of keeping what doctors consider a deceased person in the hospital, on a ventilator, for week after week, month after month, when multiple doctors have independently diagnosed brain and brain stem death? And how many people would be able to pay to keep their loved-one in a care facility or in a hospital if they had to foot the entire bill?

Whenever I ask the financial questions--who should pay for the indefinite maintenance of a brain dead body in respect of someone's "spiritual beliefs"--the sound of crickets is all we hear.

 

[meme4]

Does anyone here really believe Jahi is going is come back to life? I'm just curious.

I understand the questions being asked and the different viewpoints, but I'm talking specifically about Jahi, not some other case that seems similar, but really isn't the same.

NO, I think the video today was for show, donations seemed to have slacken, and the faithful were getting restless.....I dont think it was recent, I think it was the video the court saw....

 

[Madeleine74]

Whenever I ask the financial questions--who should pay for the indefinite maintenance of a brain dead body in respect of someone's "spiritual beliefs"--the sound of crickets is all we hear.

"Should" is one thing. Who *will* pay? That's reality here and now. Think about how much and how hard people fight to get insurance companies to cover treatments for things like organ transplants, experimental treatments for live otherwise functioning people who are trying to stay alive because they have an illness?

Now factor in when someone has ceased to live by everything that can be measured. They cannot breathe at all -- a machine has to do the work for them. They have no brain function that can be measured in any way, by any test known to medicine and they've been in this state for a long enough time to be thoroughly tested by several doctors. If a machine wasn't pushing O2 in their body their heart would stop completely.

Who's going to pay for the ongoing care of this person? Would each of you be willing to foot the cost of this? Would this person who is otherwise considered 'dead' by all known medical standards be a higher priority for ongoing medical insurance funding than someone who is still alive and fighting a disease?

These are big issues and they are real. It's one thing to opine on the meaning of life, the end of life, and what science may or may not be able to do eventually. What about here and now? Would you pay for someone else? Can you pay for it? And if the insurance company says "No way will we pay to keep a deceased person in the hospital on equipment" what do you expect to happen?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Whenever I ask the financial questions--who should pay for the indefinite maintenance of a brain dead body in respect of someone's "spiritual beliefs"--the sound of crickets is all we hear.

I would love to see the argument that would be presented to insurance companies, that treating brain dead bodies is medically necessary.

Is it medically necessary to feed a brain dead body? etc..etc....

 

[BeginnersLuck]

NO, I think the video today was for show, donations seemed to have slacken, and the faithful were getting restless.....I dont think it was recent, I think it was the video the court saw....

Most certainly someone has explained these movements to her.

If we can google it and find the answer in a matter of seconds then......I don't know what to say.

 

[NevadaMom]

Whenever I ask the financial questions--who should pay for the indefinite maintenance of a brain dead body in respect of someone's "spiritual beliefs"--the sound of crickets is all we hear.

Since insurance doesn't pay for dead people they are not obligated to pay. And since the government cannot give precedence to any one religion over another I think using tax dollars is out. So that leaves the family to pay in full. If they want to ignore a diagnosis by medical professionals then they can foot the bill.

I also think that hospitals should not be forced to provide that care, because they need their resources to help the living.

IMO

:moo:

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Since Dolan wants to consider Jahi as having a disability, he will want her to receive SSI benefits as well.

 

[NevadaMom]

Since Dolan wants to consider Jahi as having a disability, he will want her to receive SSI benefits as well.

:floorlaugh:


I shouldn't laugh at his stupidity, I shouldn't. I can't help it though.



CD: "Brain death is just a disability!"

Judge: :slap:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Does anyone here really believe Jahi is going is come back to life? I'm just curious.

I understand the questions being asked and the different viewpoints, but I'm talking specifically about Jahi, not some other case that seems similar, but really isn't the same.

Me no.

I am just trying to put myself in her mothers shoes and this particular set of circumstances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

I imagine the insurance industry will have a dog in this fight too. I mean, with medical costs out of control how realistic is it to expect an insurance company to continue to cover the costs of keeping what doctors consider a deceased person in the hospital, on a ventilator, for week after week, month after month, when multiple doctors have independently diagnosed brain and brain stem death? And how many people would be able to pay to keep their loved-one in a care facility or in a hospital if they had to foot the entire bill?

I think there are better things insurance companies, the public and tax payers can worry about than this child and the cost of maintaining her.

Like the thousands & thousands of people every year that go to emergency rooms because they don't want to wait for a regular doctor office visit.
I've seen countless people in the waiting room suffering everything from a sore throat, cold, flu...a mildly sore foot.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jjenny]

I think there are better things insurance companies, the public and tax payers can worry about than this child and the cost of maintaining her.

Like the thousands & thousands of people every year that go to emergency rooms because they don't want to wait for a regular doctor office visit.
I've seen countless people in the waiting room suffering everything from a sore throat, cold, flu...a mildly sore foot.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well I just tried to sign up for a doctor as a new patient and the appointment would be in March.
If I had a sore throat, do you think it would last until then?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Whenever I ask the financial questions--who should pay for the indefinite maintenance of a brain dead body in respect of someone's "spiritual beliefs"--the sound of crickets is all we hear.

The "waste of money" argument is offensive to me.
As if insurance companies don't make enough?
The public that is so concerned by being the possibility of being burdened with the cost of maintaining this child could easily find and whine about far more expensive practices that occur every day in every hospital. I would strongly suggest they focus their efforts on a more lucrative saving endeavor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well I just tried to sign up for a doctor as a new patient and the appointment would be in March.
If I had a sore throat, do you think it would last until then?

I think you should focus efforts to correct that problem.
Surely, you can see how wasteful and expensive that is. I would suggest calling your insurance carrier and report the doctor..tell them of your plan to go to the ER.

A sore throat is not an emergency.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

Deleted duplicate





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I think there are better things insurance companies, the public and tax payers can worry about than this child and the cost of maintaining her.

Like the thousands & thousands of people every year that go to emergency rooms because they don't want to wait for a regular doctor office visit.
I've seen countless people in the waiting room suffering everything from a sore throat, cold, flu...a mildly sore foot.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think every hospital should have a 24 hour clinic for those patients and they should ship them over there.

As far as extreme care for a brain dead patient, all these measures that they wanted done for Jahi, will never be considered medically necessary. That's MO from analyzing claims at a insurance company. There's a larger governing body over what is and isn't considered medically necessary.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think every hospital should have a 24 hour clinic for those patients and they should ship them over there.



As far as extreme care for a brain dead patient, all these measures that they wanted done for Jahi, will never be considered medically necessary. That's MO from analyzing claims at a insurance company. There's a larger governing body over what is and isn't considered medically necessary.

I don't disagree with you.

I'm just saying IMO when discussing ethical issues, money shouldn't be a factor when there a far more important things at stake than who pays.
Far more wasteful ways money is spent...IMO that's a whole other topic .




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I don't disagree with you.

I'm just saying IMO when discussing ethical issues, money shouldn't be a factor when there a far more important things at stake than who pays.
Far more wasteful ways money is spent...IMO that's a whole other topic .




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As far as Jahi's care is concerned to me it's a non issue because I believe her care is being provided for by donation. I may disagree and feel it's disrespectful to her, but the judge ruled what he ruled, so it is what it is.

Dolan's actions though are rather out there and that seems to be a issue that is making people shake their heads.

IMO, what would typically happen if a family's beliefs were based on cardiac death is for the family to be allowed the few extra days that it would take for a person heart to fail if they were given ventilator support and no other measures.

If families want to go to greater links to preserve the body and illusion of life, then it would have to be funded by donation or out of their own pocket.

A court order would obviously need to be given for families that chose to do this because of all the legal issues that arise.